700-X

[Hondo 60]

Bought a pound of 700-X (which I'm regretting)
I have 3 powder measures & it measures like crap in all three.

Tonite I was trying for 4.0 gr
Measured 10 & they were all over.
2.2gr - 7.5gr.

I have a Dillon PM, a Lee Pro Auto Disk & an RCBS Uniflow.
Tried the Lee & the Dillon last week, tried the Uniflow tonite.

This is really frustrating.

Am I gonna have to use the Lee dippers & weigh every one??

 

[kcofohio]

Yikes, 2.2-7.5 gr. Quite a spread.

Have you tried tapping the side of the base of the powder measurer, like with a screwdriver handle, to get a consistent drop? To help settle the powder in.

 

[Mauser69]

700x measures well for me

I do not know what to tell you dude; I do not see the problems you do. As I told you in a different thread, I regularly get +- .1 grain with 700x using my Lee Auto-Disk with my Lee Pro 1000 press.

I have around 14 pounds of 700x left over from my years in competitive skeet shooting, but I have come to really like it for all light and medium target loads in .40 S&W, .38 spl and .44 spl. I load all the .40 and .38 on Lee Progressive presses, but do the .44 spl with an RCBS Du-O-Measure and single stage Rock Chucker. My old Du-O-Measure throws accurate measures just like my two Lee Auto-Disk measures do.

I cannot imagine any setup so fouled up as to cause even 1 grain deviations with this powder, let alone the wild swings you report.

 

[Ex]

Blue 550 here. +- 1/10th with 700X... About like Unique.

800x is waaaaay worse. But fine powder for 10mm.

 

[Reefinmike]

I have a pro autodisk. Anything under ~4.5gr meters horribly, throws a .5gr charge every ten or so throws. 4.5gr and above it meters ok, +-.2gr. One of my pet 38 loads is a 105gr lee rn bullet over 4.7gr 700x

 

[Redstate]

I use dippers only--- and even with a dipper the big flakes of 700x seem to heap sometimes so I get a few rounds that sound and feel a bit different than others... (I load to the middle of the range for my .45 colt loads--- so a little more:less doesn't bug me and is safe

 

[Mauser69]

Bought a pound of 700-X (which I'm regretting)
I have 3 powder measures & it measures like crap in all three.

Tonite I was trying for 4.0 gr
Measured 10 & they were all over.
2.2gr - 7.5gr.

I have a Dillon PM, a Lee Pro Auto Disk & an RCBS Uniflow.
Tried the Lee & the Dillon last week, tried the Uniflow tonite.

This is really frustrating.

Am I gonna have to use the Lee dippers & weigh every one??

Ya know what doesn't make sense? You are reporting a difference of over 300% within 10 throws from the same measure with the same setting! How could that ever be possible? ?? That is like a drunk using a tomato juice can to scoop up water and sometimes only getting a cup instead of two quarts and saying there is something wrong with the water. There is simply no way a fixed volume measure can fail to pick up even 1/3 of the set volume without some major problem in how the measured is being operated.

If you doubt that, try this test: take an empty shell and fill it with powder by dipping, then weigh it. Now take that same shell and use a dowl to try and force more powder in there, packing as tight as possible. I'm betting you can't even double the weight of powder, let alone triple it!

 

[cfullgraf]

I've been loading 45 ACP with 700-X for decades without any problems. I have used an RCBS Little Dandy, Redding 10-X, and most recently a Dillon powder measure on am SDB press.

I throw 15 to 20 throws before I measure any powder charge. It settles the powder column Then, it is key to operate the powder measure the same way every stroke. If you pound it hare one stroke then do it easy the next, the charges will vary.

I use a powder baffle. I make sure the peak in the baffle is 90 degrees to the rotational axis of the drum. This openings in the baffle are then not directly on top of the metering cavity. Also, I minimize the vibrations that I put in the measure. No bumping, wrapping, or fish tank pump vibrating. But, others have success with other methods.

 

[BigBore45]

I would check my scale if I was in your shoes. That big of a spread is impossible on the Lee or Dillon powder measure's. The Lee might be bridging but I doubt it. Even if it was bridging why would you have it set so high as to dump 7+ grains? Better go back to step 1 and be safe.

 

[Walkalong]

Wow, that's pretty bad.

It basically does +/- .2 for me with many charges at +/- .1, and the occasional +/- .3, but shoots very well despite metering poorly.

2.2 to 7.5 is so bad that something has to be going on. Have some static electricity going on maybe?

 

[Mauser69]

If you were using a Lee Auto-Disk to throw that 4.0 grains of 700x, you would have needed either the .53 cavity (3.9g) or the .57 cavity (4.2g). If you then got a 2.2g charge from that setup, the cavity could not have been more than 1/2 full, which means there absolutely MUST be something wrong inside the measure that is preventing the powder from flowing through into the cavity or out of the cavity into the shell, OR you operated the powder measure in such a wrong way that the disk could not slide fully under the powder hopper. Perhaps the disk is not properly sliding back and forth to the full limit of its travel?

Unfortunately, none of those possibilities can account for your supposed charge weight of 7.5 grains from the same setup; it is a physical impossibility for the .57 cavity to hold that much 700x! That actually would require a cavity TWICE AS LARGE, and the 1.02 size cavity is not even in the same disk, which means it is not possible for you to have simply "accidentally" set up the measure wrong by inserting the disk backwards. So what you report appears to be so incorrect as to defy our ability to identify a possible solution for you. I know your post said you were using the RCBS Uniflow for this particular test, but that measure also works with a fixed size cylinder cavity when set, so all of my comments still apply - not possible to fit 10 lbs of Shinola into a 5 lb bag!

Keep double checking your tools and methods of operation and something is bound to come to light.

 

[bocefus78]

^This. I use the .57 disc and it throws right at 4.2 IIRC.
Any disc under that size yields erratic throws for me. Basically, if you want any lower than 4.2gr, you get to hand weigh them out.

FWIW, my glock 23 loves that particular load with 165gr Extreme rnfp.

 

[Jim Watson]

Unlike Chuck, I did not get satisfactory metering of 700X in light pistol loads under 4.5 gr until I applied the vibrator.
It wasn't the usual +/- round to round, it was the rare but intolerable one grain load when I wanted 2.5 or 3.5.

 

[MifflinKid]

700-X is my favorite powder for .45 Colt and .45 ACP. It certainly does not drop as evenly as, say, HP-38 right out of the bottle. But you can get very consistent drops with the proper technique. This is what I do on my Dillon 550B when using 700-X.

1. Fill the powder hopper at least 3/4 full.
2. Shake the powder hopper vigorously for at least 10 seconds. This settles the powder into a more consistent density throughout the hopper.
3. I drop 15 to 20 charges before taking a measurement. See cfullgraph's explanation in post #8 for this.

By chance two days ago I was loading 100 rounds of .45 Colt. Midway through I checked my drops. All five drops were dead on my target of 6.5 grains.

 

[Jesse Heywood]

I have used 700-X in my Uniflow with charges +/- .1 grain.

First, disassemble and clean the rotor and parts with brake cleaner. Also clean the hopper with a clean rag. Wipe everything down with used dryer sheets. After assembling the measure, you can oil the blued parts to prevent rust. Then install a baffle. A search here will show many patterns that can be cut from a pop can. The baffle is a key part of making the Uniflow work. Fill 75% full and run some charges through.

 

[RunninLate]

I just got through loading 150 9s using 3.7 gn of 700X. I check the weight on every 20th throw and it is right on the mark. I am using a RCB powder thrower with a baffle. I have it mounted on a 12X8X24 piece of wood that is not even on the bottom side. So every time I throw a charge the whole setup rocks a little. I guess that is helping to settle the powder.

Every now and then I do have a problem that the handle binds with the powder. That just causes the setup to rock some more.

 

[243winxb]

Try moving the measure slower, if possible. A fast dump will bridge most any powder if your fast enough. Note that the drop hole in the funnel is very small. My vintage measure came with 2 drop tubes, large and small. If your powder measure hates you, it may do this. Talk about unlucky.

It's a Uniflow and N540. But, that's a pretty small drop tube. It's the .17 caliber tube, drilled out slightly to better flow into a .204 case. http://www.ar15.com/forums/t_6_42/421734_.html&page=1&anc=3997675#i3997675 Today, my powder measure started having trouble getting the powder out. On the next throw, nothing came out. Next throw, nothing. Nothing. I started to unscrew the drop tube, and all of the backed-up powder came out. I looked in the drop tube, and found nine little granules of powder, quite improbably arranged:

 

[Walkalong]

Quite improbably indeed.

 

[Hondo 60]

Day 2

I left the powder in my Pro Auto Disk overnite.
Tapped on it for about 1 min.
Dropped 10 charges & dumped it back.

The next 10 charges were 4.0-4.2 I was cautiously optimistic.
#11 was 1.9 :banghead:

I finished reloading the box of 50, weighing each charge.
Every one was either spot on or way low.
I saw a total of 5 at either 1.9 or 2.2.
All the rest were great.

The problem is that 4.2 is max, so i can't work it up.

By the way, were talking 38 Spl here.
I think I'm just gonna put the powder on the side & wait til I replace my 45 Colt.

45 Colt range is 5.0-6.2 for 200 gr LRNFP

Should have my new gun by mid - late August.

Tuned Wolfe springs, lowered hammer spur & checkered grips.
I'm droolin

http://www.uberti.com/1873-cattleman-el-patron-competition-revolver

 

[BigBore45]

Powder baffle and maybe some graphite to lube it up?

 

[Hondo 60]

Got to the range today
The accuracy was terrible.

I setup 5 plastic bottles.
Normally with 3.7 gr of Titegroup I can hit 5 or 6 with a loaded revolver.
Today I got 2 out of 6.
Even tried it 50 times (the whole ammo box).

Still averaged only 1 or 2 hit per cylinder full.

Well, atleast I can say I tried it.
700-X is not one of my favorites.

 

[kerreckt]

My Lee PPM does 700X, 800X and IMR "logs" the best. I still watch closely.