7mm-08 as a Competition Round?

[mckchome]

A few questions about the 7mm-08, with a view toward using it for PRS-style competition:

- Can a 7mm-08 push, for instance, a 160 gr. bullet like Sierra's 160 gr tipped matchking (.600 BC, https://www.sierrabullets.com/store/product.cfm/sn/7660/284-dia-160-gr-Tipped-MatchKing-TMK)? Or perhaps even their 183 gr BTHP (.707 BC)?

- And if the round is able to push these heavier bullets at an acceptable velocity, might the 7mm-08 provide an alternative to the 6.5 Creedmor, whose match bullets hover between .53 BC.-.60 BC, depending on manufacturer?

Thanks in advance for any input you have.

 

[ironworkerwill]

You don't ask for much do you? Welcome to THR!

The thing is, you'll need a custom reamed chamber to get close to what you want to do. The long bullet will limit your already low capacity case. In order to gain capacity the bullet needs to be seated out further. Seating out further requires a longer action for it to feed from the magazine, once you go to a long action you wonder why you didn't build a .280AI or some other caliber with more case capacity..

 

[mckchome]

lol, thanks for the welcome and for the good feedback. These are questions I've been thinking about for a while.

 

[Swampman]

Have you considered the .284 Winchester?

You'd still lose some capacity with longer bullets in a short action, but it's got considerably more capacity than the 7mm/08 to begin with.

Match quality cases would be as simple as necking up Lapua 6.5x284 brass.

 

[jmr40]

I don't see why not, especially up to 160 gr. While I'm not familiar with 7-08 but I know lots of guys have had success loading 308 with bullets in the 200-215 gr range. Conventional wisdom says it won't work, but I've seen the results and it did.

 

[atblis]

There's some info about 7mm-08 with high BC bullets here
http://www.6mmbr.com/7mm284.html

 

[Don McDowell]

The 7mm-08 came about from sillouette shooters back in the 70's. The round is capable of fine accuracy. High velocity isn't necessarily the best answer to target shooting success.
What will make or break you having match winning scores is the quality of the rifle and sights, the loads and shooter ability.

 

[Bart B.]

The 7-08 was popular at the NRA high power Nationals until real good quality 6.5mm bullets were available i the 1990's. Then the 6.5-.308 (commercially the .260 Rem) took over along with the 6.5x.284.

Since then, the 6mm versions have good bullets available and that bullet in 6XC or similar cartridges based on the .22-.250 case are taking home most of the marbles; at least in matches up through 600 yards. Beyond that the 6.5's seem to do best.

Heavier bullets cause more recoil. That's what moves the rifle barrel around too much before the bullet exits causing one to miss their desired point of impact a lot more hand hand holding the rifle against their bodies. Heavy rifle shot in free recoil don't have this problems as much, but it's still there.

 

[Sunray]

Bullet weight isn't an issue. Lots of data for heavier than 160's on Hodgdon's site(up to 175's). More that typical 7mm-08 rifles are hunting rifles. Barrels and triggers aren't really up to high end target accuracy. Wouldn't take much to rectify that though.

 

[Peter M. Eick]

Bart B. has it down. I bought a 7-08 for similar reasons back in the early 90's as the 6.5's just were not there yet. There were/are many 7mm bullets to play with of great quality but the 7-08 will not toss them very fast. For some reason most folks expect the 7-08 will be a 7MM Mag and when it does not do that they get ticked.

My 7-08 is a great hunting round. Pleasant to shoot, accurate and very forgiving to load. It works well as a 7MM Mauser replacement round.

 

[Offfhand]

Mr. McDowell is correct about the 7mm-oRemington being born among silhouette shooters. It was a pet project of long time Remington engineer Wayne Leek ( father of 1100 shotgun). After he retired and moved to Arizona, which was a hotbed of silhouette shooting at that time, Wayne became involved in silhouette shooting and, being the engineer that he was, sought options to the .308 Win. which ruled Silhouette and other high power rifle competitions at that time. So he prevailed on Remington to further develop and produce 7mm-08 rifles and ammo. I had worked with Wayne as a consultant on other projects before that time, and knew him well, and later shot with him after his move to Arizona. It is of some interest that the first 7mm-08 rifles were the varmint model M-700's, and were intended for the silhouette market so as to give the new caliber a high profile introduction. Unfortunately, the initial of 7mm-08 ammo produced by Remington was an accuracy disaster, even in the heavy barreled varmint rifles. However, it proved accurate with good handloads and Sierra's 150 and 168 Gr. MK bullets. So for a few years the 7mm-08 enjoyed some popularity with silhouette shooters and was also taken up by a few OTC shooters as well. More important, from Remington's marketing standpoint, the cartridge made good inroads in the hunting market, even as it was rapidly losing ground among target shooters to Remington's newer and more suitable .260 Rem. It's interesting to speculate how different the comparative history of the 7mm-08 might be if the .260 had been introduced first. Very possibly, according to marketing insiders, the 7mm-08 would never have been introduced. Attached is a photo of my varmint grade 7mm-08, which is one of the very first 7.08's produced, and the one I used in competition with it's designer, Wayne Leek, many moons ago.

 

[bluetopper]

Here is my Encore frame with a 7mm-08, 15" barrel I ordered from MGM. It's a full 1" in diameter out to the muzzle. Burris 3-12 handgun scope is on top. Great fun to shoot and so accurate. I prefer 120gr handloads out of it.

 

[ironworkerwill]

Jmr40 is correct. 160gr bullets work well in the 7mm-08.

170gr works well too as long as its a Round nose flat base. This design of a bullet is compact for its weight.

A 170 gr and above in the vld design is too long in the 7mm-08. The vld design in this weight and above will surely cause issues. It will need 1:8 twist and will reduce propellant capacity.

In summary the 7-08 performs well with most bullets up to 170grns. It falls short when using the vld bullets above 150gr unless a custom long throat is used. All the while if the long vld bullets are used(especially those heavier than 150grns) the typical 1:9.5 twist falls a bit short.

The .284win is a much better cartridge than the 7-08 with 150+ vld bullets.

 

[PowerG]

Mr. McDowell is correct about the 7mm-oRemington being born among silhouette shooters. It was a pet project of long time Remington engineer Wayne Leek ( father of 1100 shotgun). After he retired and moved to Arizona, which was a hotbed of silhouette shooting at that time, Wayne became involved in silhouette shooting and, being the engineer that he was, sought options to the .308 Win. which ruled Silhouette and other high power rifle competitions at that time. So he prevailed on Remington to further develop and produce 7mm-08 rifles and ammo. I had worked with Wayne as a consultant on other projects before that time, and knew him well, and later shot with him after his move to Arizona. It is of some interest that the first 7mm-08 rifles were the varmint model M-700's, and were intended for the silhouette market so as to give the new caliber a high profile introduction. Unfortunately, the initial of 7mm-08 ammo produced by Remington was an accuracy disaster, even in the heavy barreled varmint rifles. However, it proved accurate with good handloads and Sierra's 150 and 168 Gr. MK bullets. So for a few years the 7mm-08 enjoyed some popularity with silhouette shooters and was also taken up by a few OTC shooters as well. More important, from Remington's marketing standpoint, the cartridge made good inroads in the hunting market, even as it was rapidly losing ground among target shooters to Remington's newer and more suitable .260 Rem. It's interesting to speculate how different the comparative history of the 7mm-08 might be if the .260 had been introduced first. Very possibly, according to marketing insiders, the 7mm-08 would never have been introduced. Attached is a photo of my varmint grade 7mm-08, which is one of the very first 7.08's produced, and the one I used in competition with it's designer, Wayne Leek, many moons ago.

I have one of these rifles also, one of the most accurate factory rifles I've ever been around. I always got better groups with lighter bullets, the best 100 yard groups I ever shot with the rifle were with 120gr bullets. It never liked the 154gr's that were popular for the caliber for a while. I shot two 5/16" 100 yard groups back to back many years ago with this rifle, infuriating two shooters with much more expensive rigs, there was some wagering involved. Fond memory lol. The rifle was responsible for many deer taken over the years hunting cutovers on a club I was in, a couple of shots near 400 yards, it would shoot just under 3/4 MOA with the Hornady Light Magnum 139gr Interlocks. Great rifle, retired now.