7mm Mag and 300 Win Mag
- Thread starter viking499
- Start date
- Status
Kachok
Member
OMG Nosler #6 I already told you that, and that was with only a 24" barrel, figure another 60-80fps with a normal 26" magnum barrel, but I left that out and stuck with the original 2970fps. You are right I did make a typo, but that would not get it even close to the 7mm drift. You can twist any kind of chart you like, but if you compare the best bullets with full power handloads you will have the same results that I just did. In flight the 7mm RM wins, on target I'll take a 300 anyday.
Kachok
Member
That is why I am sticking to published load data, internet loads can be overpressure or messured from 30" barrels. Published loads are a better guage even if you can safely squeeze a few extra fps out of your rifle.
BTW yall I am splitting hairs here, the 7mm RM is highly effective on game, and the 300 is still a good choice for long range shooting, but the fact remains that for external ballistics it is hard to top the big 7 and for putting down trophy elk there is no better caliber then a good 300 win.
BTW yall I am splitting hairs here, the 7mm RM is highly effective on game, and the 300 is still a good choice for long range shooting, but the fact remains that for external ballistics it is hard to top the big 7 and for putting down trophy elk there is no better caliber then a good 300 win.
LOL, yeah its not a load i would mess with honestly. Its about 1/2 grain over what i used to hit 3k and loosened primer pockets in brand new brass. Not doing it again, or getting anywhere even close. 1/2 a grain under that was fine, velocity was 2950ish, but again i didnt do any indepth testing as i only had a few bullets.
I think we all realize that this argument splits hairs...or i hope we do...its fun tho LOL, and its made me look at some things i hadnt in quite some time.
I think we all realize that this argument splits hairs...or i hope we do...its fun tho LOL, and its made me look at some things i hadnt in quite some time.
Last edited:
Zak Smith
Member
Actually, no. See below. I even spotted you the extra 50 fps on the 208gr AMAX load.
Code:
_Bullet_ _BC_ _MV_ 0 300 600 900 1200 1500 1800 | YARDS
338 300SMK 0.77* 2750 > 0.00 3.70 15.76 37.96 72.53 121.92 187.88 | wind (inches)
338 250LAP 0.675 2950 > 0.00 3.84 16.47 39.86 76.65 129.73 201.21 | wind (inches)
7 180VLD 0.659 2950 > 0.00 3.94 16.92 41.06 79.13 134.15 208.12 | wind (inches)
7 168VLD 0.617 3100 > 0.00 3.93 16.96 41.33 80.07 136.62 213.34 | wind (inches)
7RM AMAX 0.625 3125 > 0.00 3.84 16.51 40.19 77.72 132.50 207.06 | wind (inches)
300 208 AMAX 0.648 2950 > 0.00 4.01 17.25 41.92 80.93 137.35 213.08 | wind (inches)
300 190 VLD 0.583 3100 > 0.00 4.18 18.11 44.38 86.51 148.24 231.34 | wind (inches)
338 300SMK 0.77* 2750 > 0.00 1.10 3.40 6.40 10.00 14.40 20.00 | drop (Qt mil)
338 250LAP 0.675 2950 > 0.00 0.90 3.00 5.70 9.10 13.30 18.80 | drop (Qt mil)
7 180VLD 0.659 2950 > 0.00 0.90 3.00 5.70 9.20 13.60 19.20 | drop (Qt mil)
7 168VLD 0.617 3100 > 0.00 0.80 2.70 5.30 8.50 12.70 18.20 | drop (Qt mil)
7RM AMAX 0.625 3125 > 0.00 0.80 2.70 5.10 8.30 12.30 17.60 | drop (Qt mil)
300 208 AMAX 0.648 2950 > 0.00 0.90 3.00 5.80 9.30 13.70 19.50 | drop (Qt mil)
300 190 VLD 0.583 3100 > 0.00 0.80 2.80 5.40 8.80 13.30 19.20 | drop (Qt mil)There is a good reason people who still shoot .300WM are migrating to bullets with higher BC than the 190gr SMK. If there is a rule of thumb for long-range shooting, it is not that you can make up a reasonably large disparity in BC by adding a few more FPS. A good rule of thumb is more like, pick the best BC you can shooting reasonably fast. (And if I had to draw a line for "reasonably fast", it would be about 2800 fps.)
You have made one good point: that at similar pressures and the same bullet weight, it's easier for a larger caliber to achieve faster muzzle velocity. This is simply because at the same pressure it has more surface area, and velocity is proportional to area under the force (= P*a) curve. Picking the best long-range cartridge is a little more complicated than that, though.
Also, the numbers in my original table (and in the later one, all but the .300 loads), are all loads that I have loaded and shot personally in my guns, in addition to knowing at least one other shooter who uses the same load. They are not nuclear loads and they run at acceptable pressure and reliability in my rifles.
Kachok
Member
^ +1 you can never replace great bullets with great speed, inside 400yd speed is great but past that BC trumps all. How many 257 WBYs do you see at 1,000yd matches......me neither. Now how many ultra high BC 6mm, 6.5mm, 7mms and .30 cals do you see.....darn near every last one of them, there is a good reason for that. Controling drift is vastly more important then having a flat trajectory because if you are worth your salt as a long ranged shooter you know your drop at any given range, but estamating downrange wind is much harder at 1,000yd.
Last edited:
lefteyedom
Member
I could not justify a Remington 7mm Mag
Rarely will one rifle make me happy.
My 7mm is 7-08, good for dang near everything.
A 25-06 is used on longer range deer size or smaller game
When more energy is needed I use a 338 Win Mag.
200, 225, 250 grain bullets just work better on heavy game. (Elk, Moose, Bear)
Take a look at the performance of a 225 grain 338 Win Mag. it is amazing.
the 7mm RM is basically a 338 neck down to 284..... The 338 uses the powder better.... But that is Just my view.
Disclaimer I do have a 300 Win Mag barrel that I switch out time to time with the 338 Win Mag
Rarely will one rifle make me happy.
My 7mm is 7-08, good for dang near everything.
A 25-06 is used on longer range deer size or smaller game
When more energy is needed I use a 338 Win Mag.
200, 225, 250 grain bullets just work better on heavy game. (Elk, Moose, Bear)
Take a look at the performance of a 225 grain 338 Win Mag. it is amazing.
the 7mm RM is basically a 338 neck down to 284..... The 338 uses the powder better.... But that is Just my view.
Disclaimer I do have a 300 Win Mag barrel that I switch out time to time with the 338 Win Mag
Kachok
Member
Larger calibers always "use the powder better" since they have more area to push aginst, but there is a trade off with external ballistics and recoil, so every caliber is a compromise, some better then others for real world hunting situation IMHO. I don't have a 7mm Rem mag currently, but have owned several over the years, and would again if I hunted WIDE open spaces. Between my 6.5x55 and 30-06 I have 99% of all hunting situations in the southeast covered. I do tend to like 6.5 and 7mm better then 243, 257, or 277 cal though, tighter standard twists allow them to use heavier more efficient bullets, though my 270 WSM was much more plesent to shoot then my 7mm Rem Mags were.
tundraotto
Member
Sierra / Hodgdon load data as before with Retumbo
300WM Sierra Matchking 220gr
Trajectory (Simplified)
Input Data
Ballistic Coefficient: 0.629 G1 Caliber: 0.308 in
Bullet Weight: 220.0 gr
Muzzle Velocity: 2810.0 ft/s
Sight Height: 1.50 in Line Of Sight Angle: 0.0 deg
Cant Angle: 0.0 deg
Wind Speed: 10.0 mph Target Speed: 10.0 mph
Temperature: 59.0 °F Pressure: 29.92 in Hg
Humidity: 0.0 % Altitude: 0.0 ft
Std. Atmosphere at Altitude: No Pressure is Corrected: Yes
Zero at Max. Point Blank Range: No Target Relative Drops: Yes
Column 1 Units: 1.00 in Column 2 Units: 1.00 MOA
Round Output to Whole Numbers: No
Output Data
Elevation: 3.611 MOA Windage: 0.000 MOA
Atmospheric Density: 0.07647 lb/ft³ Speed of Sound: 1116.4 ft/s
Maximum PBR: 350 yd Maximum PBR Zero: 296 yd
Range of Maximum Height: 162 yd Energy at Maximum PBR: 2611.9 ft•lbs
Sectional Density: 0.331 lb/in²
Calculated Table
Range Drop Drop Windage Windage Velocity Mach Energy Time Lead Lead
(yd) (in) (MOA) (in) (MOA) (ft/s) (none) (ft•lbs) (s) (in) (MOA)
0 -1.5 *** 0.0 *** 2810.0 2.517 3856.6 0.000 0.0 ***
400 -27.3 -6.5 8.9 2.1 2245.9 2.012 2463.6 0.478 84.1 20.1
800 -165.9 -19.8 40.3 4.8 1753.2 1.570 1501.2 1.083 190.6 22.8
1200 -490.0 -39.0 102.9 8.2 1350.3 1.209 890.6 1.866 328.3 26.1
1600 -1123.6 -67.1 204.1 12.2 1083.7 0.971 573.6 2.868 504.7 30.1
2000 -2230.2 -106.5 339.4 16.2 945.7 0.847 436.8 4.064 715.2 34.1
_____________________________________________________________________________________________
7MM REM MAG Sierra MatchKing 168gr
Trajectory (Simplified)
Input Data
Ballistic Coefficient: 0.488 G1 Caliber: 0.284 in
Bullet Weight: 168.0 gr
Muzzle Velocity: 2899.0 ft/s
Sight Height: 1.50 in Line Of Sight Angle: 0.0 deg
Cant Angle: 0.0 deg
Wind Speed: 10.0 mph Target Speed: 10.0 mph
Temperature: 59.0 °F Pressure: 29.92 in Hg
Humidity: 0.0 % Altitude: 0.0 ft
Std. Atmosphere at Altitude: No Pressure is Corrected: Yes
Zero at Max. Point Blank Range: No Target Relative Drops: Yes
Column 1 Units: 1.00 in Column 2 Units: 1.00 MOA
Round Output to Whole Numbers: No
Output Data
Elevation: 3.500 MOA Windage: 0.000 MOA
Atmospheric Density: 0.07647 lb/ft³ Speed of Sound: 1116.4 ft/s
Maximum PBR: 351 yd Maximum PBR Zero: 298 yd
Range of Maximum Height: 164 yd Energy at Maximum PBR: 1894.8 ft•lbs
Sectional Density: 0.298 lb/in²
Calculated Table
Range Drop Drop Windage Windage Velocity Mach Energy Time Lead Lead
(yd) (in) (MOA) (in) (MOA) (ft/s) (none) (ft•lbs) (s) (in) (MOA)
0 -1.5 *** 0.0 *** 2899.0 2.597 3134.5 0.000 0.0 ***
400 -27.1 -6.5 11.4 2.7 2171.2 1.945 1758.2 0.479 84.2 20.1
800 -175.3 -20.9 53.3 6.4 1566.0 1.403 914.6 1.131 199.0 23.8
1200 -558.6 -44.5 140.1 11.2 1141.5 1.022 486.0 2.038 358.7 28.5
1600 -1368.2 -81.7 273.4 16.3 943.6 0.845 332.1 3.209 564.8 33.7
2000 -2804.9 -133.9 440.9 21.0 832.6 0.746 258.6 4.575 805.1 38.4
________________________________________________________________________________________________
Sierra Prohunter SP bullets:
7MM REM MAG 170 Sierra Prohunter:
Trajectory (Simplified)
Input Data
Ballistic Coefficient: 0.205 G1 Caliber: 0.284 in
Bullet Weight: 170.0 gr
Muzzle Velocity: 2899.0 ft/s
Sight Height: 1.50 in Line Of Sight Angle: 0.0 deg
Cant Angle: 0.0 deg
Wind Speed: 10.0 mph Target Speed: 10.0 mph
Temperature: 59.0 °F Pressure: 29.92 in Hg
Humidity: 0.0 % Altitude: 0.0 ft
Std. Atmosphere at Altitude: No Pressure is Corrected: Yes
Zero at Max. Point Blank Range: No Target Relative Drops: Yes
Column 1 Units: 1.00 in Column 2 Units: 1.00 MOA
Round Output to Whole Numbers: No
Output Data
Elevation: 3.643 MOA Windage: 0.000 MOA
Atmospheric Density: 0.07647 lb/ft³ Speed of Sound: 1116.4 ft/s
Maximum PBR: 303 yd Maximum PBR Zero: 261 yd
Range of Maximum Height: 149 yd Energy at Maximum PBR: 1057.2 ft•lbs
Sectional Density: 0.301 lb/in²
Calculated Table
Range Drop Drop Windage Windage Velocity Mach Energy Time Lead Lead
(yd) (in) (MOA) (in) (MOA) (ft/s) (none) (ft•lbs) (s) (in) (MOA)
0 -1.5 *** 0.0 *** 2899.0 2.597 3171.8 0.000 0.0 ***
400 -42.3 -10.1 33.7 8.1 1377.1 1.233 715.7 0.606 106.6 25.4
800 -405.4 -48.4 167.1 19.9 852.7 0.764 274.4 1.777 312.8 37.3
1200 -1540.4 -122.6 378.6 30.1 659.6 0.591 164.2 3.393 597.2 47.5
1600 -3996.9 -238.5 672.1 40.1 523.2 0.469 103.3 5.475 963.5 57.5
2000 -8650.6 -413.0 1073.8 51.3 424.3 0.380 67.9 8.171 1438.1 68.7
_____________________________________________________________________________________________
300 Win Mag, 220gr Prohunter
Trajectory (Simplified)
Input Data
Ballistic Coefficient: 0.310 G1 Caliber: 0.308 in
Bullet Weight: 220.0 gr
Muzzle Velocity: 2810.0 ft/s
Sight Height: 1.50 in Line Of Sight Angle: 0.0 deg
Cant Angle: 0.0 deg
Wind Speed: 10.0 mph Target Speed: 10.0 mph
Temperature: 59.0 °F Pressure: 29.92 in Hg
Humidity: 0.0 % Altitude: 0.0 ft
Std. Atmosphere at Altitude: No Pressure is Corrected: Yes
Zero at Max. Point Blank Range: No Target Relative Drops: Yes
Column 1 Units: 1.00 in Column 2 Units: 1.00 MOA
Round Output to Whole Numbers: No
Output Data
Elevation: 3.696 MOA Windage: 0.000 MOA
Atmospheric Density: 0.07647 lb/ft³ Speed of Sound: 1116.4 ft/s
Maximum PBR: 320 yd Maximum PBR Zero: 273 yd
Range of Maximum Height: 153 yd Energy at Maximum PBR: 1819.0 ft•lbs
Sectional Density: 0.331 lb/in²
Calculated Table
Range Drop Drop Windage Windage Velocity Mach Energy Time Lead Lead
(yd) (in) (MOA) (in) (MOA) (ft/s) (none) (ft•lbs) (s) (in) (MOA)
0 -1.5 *** 0.0 *** 2810.0 2.517 3856.6 0.000 0.0 ***
400 -34.9 -8.3 20.5 4.9 1739.9 1.558 1478.5 0.544 95.7 22.8
800 -270.1 -32.2 104.0 12.4 1072.1 0.960 561.4 1.445 254.3 30.4
1200 -984.1 -78.3 254.1 20.2 845.9 0.758 349.5 2.725 479.6 38.2
1600 -2482.7 -148.2 453.2 27.0 713.7 0.639 248.8 4.283 753.9 45.0
2000 -5103.1 -243.7 703.4 33.6 613.7 0.550 183.9 6.132 1079.2 51.5
300WM Sierra Matchking 220gr
Trajectory (Simplified)
Input Data
Ballistic Coefficient: 0.629 G1 Caliber: 0.308 in
Bullet Weight: 220.0 gr
Muzzle Velocity: 2810.0 ft/s
Sight Height: 1.50 in Line Of Sight Angle: 0.0 deg
Cant Angle: 0.0 deg
Wind Speed: 10.0 mph Target Speed: 10.0 mph
Temperature: 59.0 °F Pressure: 29.92 in Hg
Humidity: 0.0 % Altitude: 0.0 ft
Std. Atmosphere at Altitude: No Pressure is Corrected: Yes
Zero at Max. Point Blank Range: No Target Relative Drops: Yes
Column 1 Units: 1.00 in Column 2 Units: 1.00 MOA
Round Output to Whole Numbers: No
Output Data
Elevation: 3.611 MOA Windage: 0.000 MOA
Atmospheric Density: 0.07647 lb/ft³ Speed of Sound: 1116.4 ft/s
Maximum PBR: 350 yd Maximum PBR Zero: 296 yd
Range of Maximum Height: 162 yd Energy at Maximum PBR: 2611.9 ft•lbs
Sectional Density: 0.331 lb/in²
Calculated Table
Range Drop Drop Windage Windage Velocity Mach Energy Time Lead Lead
(yd) (in) (MOA) (in) (MOA) (ft/s) (none) (ft•lbs) (s) (in) (MOA)
0 -1.5 *** 0.0 *** 2810.0 2.517 3856.6 0.000 0.0 ***
400 -27.3 -6.5 8.9 2.1 2245.9 2.012 2463.6 0.478 84.1 20.1
800 -165.9 -19.8 40.3 4.8 1753.2 1.570 1501.2 1.083 190.6 22.8
1200 -490.0 -39.0 102.9 8.2 1350.3 1.209 890.6 1.866 328.3 26.1
1600 -1123.6 -67.1 204.1 12.2 1083.7 0.971 573.6 2.868 504.7 30.1
2000 -2230.2 -106.5 339.4 16.2 945.7 0.847 436.8 4.064 715.2 34.1
_____________________________________________________________________________________________
7MM REM MAG Sierra MatchKing 168gr
Trajectory (Simplified)
Input Data
Ballistic Coefficient: 0.488 G1 Caliber: 0.284 in
Bullet Weight: 168.0 gr
Muzzle Velocity: 2899.0 ft/s
Sight Height: 1.50 in Line Of Sight Angle: 0.0 deg
Cant Angle: 0.0 deg
Wind Speed: 10.0 mph Target Speed: 10.0 mph
Temperature: 59.0 °F Pressure: 29.92 in Hg
Humidity: 0.0 % Altitude: 0.0 ft
Std. Atmosphere at Altitude: No Pressure is Corrected: Yes
Zero at Max. Point Blank Range: No Target Relative Drops: Yes
Column 1 Units: 1.00 in Column 2 Units: 1.00 MOA
Round Output to Whole Numbers: No
Output Data
Elevation: 3.500 MOA Windage: 0.000 MOA
Atmospheric Density: 0.07647 lb/ft³ Speed of Sound: 1116.4 ft/s
Maximum PBR: 351 yd Maximum PBR Zero: 298 yd
Range of Maximum Height: 164 yd Energy at Maximum PBR: 1894.8 ft•lbs
Sectional Density: 0.298 lb/in²
Calculated Table
Range Drop Drop Windage Windage Velocity Mach Energy Time Lead Lead
(yd) (in) (MOA) (in) (MOA) (ft/s) (none) (ft•lbs) (s) (in) (MOA)
0 -1.5 *** 0.0 *** 2899.0 2.597 3134.5 0.000 0.0 ***
400 -27.1 -6.5 11.4 2.7 2171.2 1.945 1758.2 0.479 84.2 20.1
800 -175.3 -20.9 53.3 6.4 1566.0 1.403 914.6 1.131 199.0 23.8
1200 -558.6 -44.5 140.1 11.2 1141.5 1.022 486.0 2.038 358.7 28.5
1600 -1368.2 -81.7 273.4 16.3 943.6 0.845 332.1 3.209 564.8 33.7
2000 -2804.9 -133.9 440.9 21.0 832.6 0.746 258.6 4.575 805.1 38.4
________________________________________________________________________________________________
Sierra Prohunter SP bullets:
7MM REM MAG 170 Sierra Prohunter:
Trajectory (Simplified)
Input Data
Ballistic Coefficient: 0.205 G1 Caliber: 0.284 in
Bullet Weight: 170.0 gr
Muzzle Velocity: 2899.0 ft/s
Sight Height: 1.50 in Line Of Sight Angle: 0.0 deg
Cant Angle: 0.0 deg
Wind Speed: 10.0 mph Target Speed: 10.0 mph
Temperature: 59.0 °F Pressure: 29.92 in Hg
Humidity: 0.0 % Altitude: 0.0 ft
Std. Atmosphere at Altitude: No Pressure is Corrected: Yes
Zero at Max. Point Blank Range: No Target Relative Drops: Yes
Column 1 Units: 1.00 in Column 2 Units: 1.00 MOA
Round Output to Whole Numbers: No
Output Data
Elevation: 3.643 MOA Windage: 0.000 MOA
Atmospheric Density: 0.07647 lb/ft³ Speed of Sound: 1116.4 ft/s
Maximum PBR: 303 yd Maximum PBR Zero: 261 yd
Range of Maximum Height: 149 yd Energy at Maximum PBR: 1057.2 ft•lbs
Sectional Density: 0.301 lb/in²
Calculated Table
Range Drop Drop Windage Windage Velocity Mach Energy Time Lead Lead
(yd) (in) (MOA) (in) (MOA) (ft/s) (none) (ft•lbs) (s) (in) (MOA)
0 -1.5 *** 0.0 *** 2899.0 2.597 3171.8 0.000 0.0 ***
400 -42.3 -10.1 33.7 8.1 1377.1 1.233 715.7 0.606 106.6 25.4
800 -405.4 -48.4 167.1 19.9 852.7 0.764 274.4 1.777 312.8 37.3
1200 -1540.4 -122.6 378.6 30.1 659.6 0.591 164.2 3.393 597.2 47.5
1600 -3996.9 -238.5 672.1 40.1 523.2 0.469 103.3 5.475 963.5 57.5
2000 -8650.6 -413.0 1073.8 51.3 424.3 0.380 67.9 8.171 1438.1 68.7
_____________________________________________________________________________________________
300 Win Mag, 220gr Prohunter
Trajectory (Simplified)
Input Data
Ballistic Coefficient: 0.310 G1 Caliber: 0.308 in
Bullet Weight: 220.0 gr
Muzzle Velocity: 2810.0 ft/s
Sight Height: 1.50 in Line Of Sight Angle: 0.0 deg
Cant Angle: 0.0 deg
Wind Speed: 10.0 mph Target Speed: 10.0 mph
Temperature: 59.0 °F Pressure: 29.92 in Hg
Humidity: 0.0 % Altitude: 0.0 ft
Std. Atmosphere at Altitude: No Pressure is Corrected: Yes
Zero at Max. Point Blank Range: No Target Relative Drops: Yes
Column 1 Units: 1.00 in Column 2 Units: 1.00 MOA
Round Output to Whole Numbers: No
Output Data
Elevation: 3.696 MOA Windage: 0.000 MOA
Atmospheric Density: 0.07647 lb/ft³ Speed of Sound: 1116.4 ft/s
Maximum PBR: 320 yd Maximum PBR Zero: 273 yd
Range of Maximum Height: 153 yd Energy at Maximum PBR: 1819.0 ft•lbs
Sectional Density: 0.331 lb/in²
Calculated Table
Range Drop Drop Windage Windage Velocity Mach Energy Time Lead Lead
(yd) (in) (MOA) (in) (MOA) (ft/s) (none) (ft•lbs) (s) (in) (MOA)
0 -1.5 *** 0.0 *** 2810.0 2.517 3856.6 0.000 0.0 ***
400 -34.9 -8.3 20.5 4.9 1739.9 1.558 1478.5 0.544 95.7 22.8
800 -270.1 -32.2 104.0 12.4 1072.1 0.960 561.4 1.445 254.3 30.4
1200 -984.1 -78.3 254.1 20.2 845.9 0.758 349.5 2.725 479.6 38.2
1600 -2482.7 -148.2 453.2 27.0 713.7 0.639 248.8 4.283 753.9 45.0
2000 -5103.1 -243.7 703.4 33.6 613.7 0.550 183.9 6.132 1079.2 51.5
Zak Smith
Member
If you wanted to show that low BC values give relatively terrible long-range performance, then well done.
Using a hunting bullet with a BC lower than 0.4 is not a good recipe for anything long range.
Kachok
Member
tundraotto, I think you are totaly missing the point, comparing wildly different bullets then the ones I am talking about. Show me the published 300 Win Mag load that will drift less then 53" at 1,000yd with a 10mph crosswind, quit skewing the discussion with flat base soft points and bullets of vastly different weights. If you want to open a discussion about soft points or poly tips I can do that too, but the issue on the table is optimal 1,000yd ballistics which you hardly touched in the scatter brained chart. I can find you multiple examples of 7mm SP flat base bullets easly outperforming comprable bullets in .308 cal. Take the Partition for example, 220gr .308 Partition has a BC of .351, while the 7mm 175gr has a BC of .519 you could gou back and forth with that kind of nonsence all day long, but when talking about optimum performance the 7mm will always come out a little ahead. Besides comparing a 220gr to a 168gr of much lower BC is not just bias but outright silly. If you notice in my comparisons I am using the best BC bullets for each, why won't you do the same?
Last edited:
tundraotto
Member
ok when I get home I will run it with VLDs - I'm just using the same PUBLISHED load data to keep it fair....I took the heaviest bullets from each caliber that Hodgdon has listed....
Zak Smith
Member
If you do it right you'll just regenerate the same table I already posted.
tundraotto
Member
could not wait.... so here are the VLDs
300WM 215gr VLD
Trajectory (Simplified)
Input Data
Ballistic Coefficient: 0.696 G1 Caliber: 0.308 in
Bullet Weight: 215.0 gr
Muzzle Velocity: 2810.0 ft/s
Sight Height: 1.50 in Line Of Sight Angle: 0.0 deg
Cant Angle: 0.0 deg
Wind Speed: 10.0 mph Target Speed: 10.0 mph
Temperature: 59.0 °F Pressure: 29.92 in Hg
Humidity: 0.0 % Altitude: 0.0 ft
Std. Atmosphere at Altitude: No Pressure is Corrected: Yes
Zero at Max. Point Blank Range: No Target Relative Drops: Yes
Column 1 Units: 1.00 in Column 2 Units: 1.00 MOA
Round Output to Whole Numbers: No
Output Data
Elevation: 3.603 MOA Windage: 0.000 MOA
Atmospheric Density: 0.07647 lb/ft³ Speed of Sound: 1116.4 ft/s
Maximum PBR: 353 yd Maximum PBR Zero: 298 yd
Range of Maximum Height: 163 yd Energy at Maximum PBR: 2645.7 ft•lbs
Sectional Density: 0.324 lb/in²
Calculated Table
Range Drop Drop Windage Windage Velocity Mach Energy Time Lead Lead
(yd) (in) (MOA) (in) (MOA) (ft/s) (none) (ft•lbs) (s) (in) (MOA)
0 -1.5 *** 0.0 *** 2810.0 2.517 3768.9 0.000 0.0 ***
400 -26.7 -6.4 8.0 1.9 2297.1 2.058 2518.7 0.472 83.2 19.9
800 -159.3 -19.0 35.5 4.2 1842.1 1.650 1619.7 1.056 185.9 22.2
1200 -459.1 -36.5 89.6 7.1 1455.2 1.303 1010.8 1.790 315.1 25.1
1600 -1025.9 -61.2 177.6 10.6 1167.3 1.046 650.4 2.717 478.2 28.5
2000 -2001.7 -95.6 299.5 14.3 1002.6 0.898 479.8 3.837 675.3 32.2
___________________________________________________________________________________________
7MM 168gr VLD
Trajectory (Simplified)
Input Data
Ballistic Coefficient: 0.618 G1 Caliber: 0.284 in
Bullet Weight: 168.0 gr
Muzzle Velocity: 2899.0 ft/s
Sight Height: 1.50 in Line Of Sight Angle: 0.0 deg
Cant Angle: 0.0 deg
Wind Speed: 10.0 mph Target Speed: 10.0 mph
Temperature: 59.0 °F Pressure: 29.92 in Hg
Humidity: 0.0 % Altitude: 0.0 ft
Std. Atmosphere at Altitude: No Pressure is Corrected: Yes
Zero at Max. Point Blank Range: No Target Relative Drops: Yes
Column 1 Units: 1.00 in Column 2 Units: 1.00 MOA
Round Output to Whole Numbers: No
Output Data
Elevation: 3.480 MOA Windage: 0.000 MOA
Atmospheric Density: 0.07647 lb/ft³ Speed of Sound: 1116.4 ft/s
Maximum PBR: 360 yd Maximum PBR Zero: 305 yd
Range of Maximum Height: 167 yd Energy at Maximum PBR: 2094.0 ft•lbs
Sectional Density: 0.298 lb/in²
Calculated Table
Range Drop Drop Windage Windage Velocity Mach Energy Time Lead Lead
(yd) (in) (MOA) (in) (MOA) (ft/s) (none) (ft•lbs) (s) (in) (MOA)
0 -1.5 *** 0.0 *** 2899.0 2.597 3134.5 0.000 0.0 ***
400 -25.4 -6.1 8.7 2.1 2314.4 2.073 1997.8 0.463 81.6 19.5
800 -155.6 -18.6 39.3 4.7 1803.9 1.616 1213.7 1.051 185.0 22.1
1200 -461.1 -36.7 100.6 8.0 1382.9 1.239 713.2 1.813 319.1 25.4
1600 -1062.5 -63.4 200.8 12.0 1098.1 0.984 449.8 2.797 492.2 29.4
2000 -2124.3 -101.4 336.5 16.1 951.7 0.852 337.8 3.981 700.7 33.5
300WM 215gr VLD
Trajectory (Simplified)
Input Data
Ballistic Coefficient: 0.696 G1 Caliber: 0.308 in
Bullet Weight: 215.0 gr
Muzzle Velocity: 2810.0 ft/s
Sight Height: 1.50 in Line Of Sight Angle: 0.0 deg
Cant Angle: 0.0 deg
Wind Speed: 10.0 mph Target Speed: 10.0 mph
Temperature: 59.0 °F Pressure: 29.92 in Hg
Humidity: 0.0 % Altitude: 0.0 ft
Std. Atmosphere at Altitude: No Pressure is Corrected: Yes
Zero at Max. Point Blank Range: No Target Relative Drops: Yes
Column 1 Units: 1.00 in Column 2 Units: 1.00 MOA
Round Output to Whole Numbers: No
Output Data
Elevation: 3.603 MOA Windage: 0.000 MOA
Atmospheric Density: 0.07647 lb/ft³ Speed of Sound: 1116.4 ft/s
Maximum PBR: 353 yd Maximum PBR Zero: 298 yd
Range of Maximum Height: 163 yd Energy at Maximum PBR: 2645.7 ft•lbs
Sectional Density: 0.324 lb/in²
Calculated Table
Range Drop Drop Windage Windage Velocity Mach Energy Time Lead Lead
(yd) (in) (MOA) (in) (MOA) (ft/s) (none) (ft•lbs) (s) (in) (MOA)
0 -1.5 *** 0.0 *** 2810.0 2.517 3768.9 0.000 0.0 ***
400 -26.7 -6.4 8.0 1.9 2297.1 2.058 2518.7 0.472 83.2 19.9
800 -159.3 -19.0 35.5 4.2 1842.1 1.650 1619.7 1.056 185.9 22.2
1200 -459.1 -36.5 89.6 7.1 1455.2 1.303 1010.8 1.790 315.1 25.1
1600 -1025.9 -61.2 177.6 10.6 1167.3 1.046 650.4 2.717 478.2 28.5
2000 -2001.7 -95.6 299.5 14.3 1002.6 0.898 479.8 3.837 675.3 32.2
___________________________________________________________________________________________
7MM 168gr VLD
Trajectory (Simplified)
Input Data
Ballistic Coefficient: 0.618 G1 Caliber: 0.284 in
Bullet Weight: 168.0 gr
Muzzle Velocity: 2899.0 ft/s
Sight Height: 1.50 in Line Of Sight Angle: 0.0 deg
Cant Angle: 0.0 deg
Wind Speed: 10.0 mph Target Speed: 10.0 mph
Temperature: 59.0 °F Pressure: 29.92 in Hg
Humidity: 0.0 % Altitude: 0.0 ft
Std. Atmosphere at Altitude: No Pressure is Corrected: Yes
Zero at Max. Point Blank Range: No Target Relative Drops: Yes
Column 1 Units: 1.00 in Column 2 Units: 1.00 MOA
Round Output to Whole Numbers: No
Output Data
Elevation: 3.480 MOA Windage: 0.000 MOA
Atmospheric Density: 0.07647 lb/ft³ Speed of Sound: 1116.4 ft/s
Maximum PBR: 360 yd Maximum PBR Zero: 305 yd
Range of Maximum Height: 167 yd Energy at Maximum PBR: 2094.0 ft•lbs
Sectional Density: 0.298 lb/in²
Calculated Table
Range Drop Drop Windage Windage Velocity Mach Energy Time Lead Lead
(yd) (in) (MOA) (in) (MOA) (ft/s) (none) (ft•lbs) (s) (in) (MOA)
0 -1.5 *** 0.0 *** 2899.0 2.597 3134.5 0.000 0.0 ***
400 -25.4 -6.1 8.7 2.1 2314.4 2.073 1997.8 0.463 81.6 19.5
800 -155.6 -18.6 39.3 4.7 1803.9 1.616 1213.7 1.051 185.0 22.1
1200 -461.1 -36.7 100.6 8.0 1382.9 1.239 713.2 1.813 319.1 25.4
1600 -1062.5 -63.4 200.8 12.0 1098.1 0.984 449.8 2.797 492.2 29.4
2000 -2124.3 -101.4 336.5 16.1 951.7 0.852 337.8 3.981 700.7 33.5
Kachok
Member
AGAIN I ask where is the 300 Win load that will drift less then 53" at 1,000yd with 10mph crosswind? You have to keep side stepping the issue to keep your point alive and not fooling anyone. Why on earth did you use the 168gr 7mm and not the 180 like we have been talking about? And BTW any handloader worth his salt can load a 160gr class 7mm RM way faster then 2899fps without exceding pressure specs 72gr of magpro should put you well over 3000 easly, also a published load, so quit screwing with the facts with half@$$ load data. I have the Hodgdon manual too and you are using underpressure loads, check out what 73.5gr og Retumbo does 
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tundraotto
Member
Because i want to use load data from the same source!!!!!!! and to me it looks like its right there in the chart above.
Zak Smith
Member
The 215gr Berger Hybrid is brand new and may be the only chance .300WM has to hang with the 7mm RM, at least until the "Hybrid" designs are brought to 7mm. It is the only "Hybrid" ogive bullet in this table
If the BC is true... then in summary it has basically identical wind performance to the 180gr Berger, 1.5 mils more drop at 1200 yards, less retained velocity at 1200 yards, and 30% more recoil.
Note that I'm using the revised BC values for the 7mm VLD's, not the original ones (that had the 180 close to 0.68-- this was later proven to be too high).
Code:
_Bullet_ _BC_ _MV_ 0 300 600 900 1200 1500 1800 | YARDS
338 300SMK 0.77* 2750 > 0.00 3.70 15.76 37.96 72.53 121.92 187.88 | wind (inches)
338 250LAP 0.675 2950 > 0.00 3.84 16.47 39.86 76.65 129.73 201.21 | wind (inches)
7 180VLD 0.659 2950 > 0.00 3.94 16.92 41.06 79.13 134.15 208.12 | wind (inches)
7 168VLD 0.617 3100 > 0.00 3.93 16.96 41.33 80.07 136.62 213.34 | wind (inches)
7RM AMAX 0.625 3125 > 0.00 3.84 16.51 40.19 77.72 132.50 207.06 | wind (inches)
300 208 AMAX 0.648 2950 > 0.00 4.01 17.25 41.92 80.93 137.35 213.08 | wind (inches)
300 190 VLD 0.583 3100 > 0.00 4.18 18.11 44.38 86.51 148.24 231.34 | wind (inches)
300 215 0.696 2810 > 0.00 3.99 17.07 41.28 79.25 133.64 206.03 | wind (inches)
338 300SMK 0.77* 2750 > 0.00 1.10 3.40 6.40 10.00 14.40 20.00 | drop (Qt mil)
338 250LAP 0.675 2950 > 0.00 0.90 3.00 5.70 9.10 13.30 18.80 | drop (Qt mil)
7 180VLD 0.659 2950 > 0.00 0.90 3.00 5.70 9.20 13.60 19.20 | drop (Qt mil)
7 168VLD 0.617 3100 > 0.00 0.80 2.70 5.30 8.50 12.70 18.20 | drop (Qt mil)
7RM AMAX 0.625 3125 > 0.00 0.80 2.70 5.10 8.30 12.30 17.60 | drop (Qt mil)
300 208 AMAX 0.648 2950 > 0.00 0.90 3.00 5.80 9.30 13.70 19.50 | drop (Qt mil)
300 190 VLD 0.583 3100 > 0.00 0.80 2.80 5.40 8.80 13.30 19.20 | drop (Qt mil)
300 215 0.696 2810 > 0.00 1.00 3.40 6.30 10.00 14.60 20.50 | drop (Qt mil)
338 300SMK 0.77* 2750 > 2750 2428 2129 1852 1597 1377 1202 | velocity (fps)
338 250LAP 0.675 2950 > 2950 2570 2221 1902 1614 1369 1180 | velocity (fps)
7 180VLD 0.659 2950 > 2950 2561 2205 1880 1588 1342 1157 | velocity (fps)
7 168VLD 0.617 3100 > 3100 2673 2284 1930 1613 1348 1151 | velocity (fps)
7RM AMAX 0.625 3125 > 3125 2702 2314 1962 1645 1377 1173 | velocity (fps)
300 208 AMAX 0.648 2950 > 2950 2555 2193 1864 1570 1324 1142 | velocity (fps)
300 190 VLD 0.583 3100 > 3100 2650 2241 1872 1546 1283 1100 | velocity (fps)
300 215 0.696 2810 > 2810 2452 2123 1821 1551 1324 1153 | velocity (fps)Note that I'm using the revised BC values for the 7mm VLD's, not the original ones (that had the 180 close to 0.68-- this was later proven to be too high).
Kachok
Member
Yet again why the half@$$ load for the 7mm, you know good and darn well that is an underpowerd load, heck people have been pushing 160gr class bullets well past 3k since the 7mm came out, I know I have used them for many years.
In all of my compreisons I am using the fastest published load data for each, if you know a faster one for the 300 please tell me about it, unlike you I like to be completly fair and unbias.
tundraotto
Member
Thanks for that list (you are using 2810fps for the 215 grain berger - the hodgdon manual gives this for a 220grain!!!!) but your 180 grain berger is listed at 2950fps. Hodgdon only gives 2899fps for a 170grain from a 7mm (certainly not for 180gr!!!). If you dont mind changing those velocities you will see what I am saying - the "advantage" is reversed.
Kachok
Member
Again I ask, WHERE IS THE PUBLISHED 300 WIN LOAD THE WILL DRIFT LESS THEN 53" AT 1,000 WITH 10MPH CROSSWIND? I think that is fair enough since I am using published data from a reputable source.....don't you?
tundraotto
Member
So now you want your loads from reloadersnest for the 7mm, and published loads for the 300....I mean seriously?!
Kachok
Member
NOPE mine is streight from Nolser #6 72gr of magpro makes 3077fps out of only a 24" barrel now where is yours I am only talking safe published data, but I use the best data for each, I think I have been more then fair in that reguard.
I am only talking safe published data, but I use the best data for each, I think I have been more then fair in that reguard.- Status
