is there one,if not would it be popular or preferred over others,please ammo cost would not be a factor for my inquiry,it is more based on effectiveness or application,i love the 7mm rem mag caliber,in my opinion has the best all around ballistics
7mm rem mag in assault rifle?
- Thread starter 1shot3kills
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Browning Automatic Rifle - the civilian version. Close as you can get.
Easy folks, we were all new shooters at one time.
Easy folks, we were all new shooters at one time.
shaggy430
Member
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Sorry, but the modern BAR is not an "assault rifle". It is a semi-auto sporting rifle. It's ties to the original from WWI and WWII are basically in name only. If we classify the modern BAR as an assault rifle we are taking a page right out of the Brady handbook.
There is a gun in Sweden I shot that was a 7mm mag in a assault style rifle more like a copy of a SKS. It was not practical little on the heavy side and it is more of lay on the ground and shoot.
WHY?!?!?
It wouldn't be practical... There are other 7mm cartridges that would be better choices... 7x57 Mauser, 7mm-08, or the .280 Rem...
The .280 can be loaded to near 7mm Mag performance if you're a handloader...
It wouldn't be practical... There are other 7mm cartridges that would be better choices... 7x57 Mauser, 7mm-08, or the .280 Rem...
The .280 can be loaded to near 7mm Mag performance if you're a handloader...
Because it is too heavy, recoils way too much at rapid fire, it is more of a gun for cover then to actually aim at something. It is kind of like a BAR.
I have a 7mm mag in a rem mod. 700. It is a great cal. But a assault rifle has a selector switch and a semi-auto has a safety. I do not think you would want to shoot a 7mm mag in full auto. A BAR shoots a 30 06 and weights 20 lbs so recoil is not a problem. I use to shoot one in the navy when I was station on Midway Island in the armory.
I've seen pics of Cobb/Bushmaster AR-10s in .30-06.
http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=240563
Think you're outta luck with the 7mag.
http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=240563
Think you're outta luck with the 7mag.
HoosierQ
Member
Gross overkill and counter productive to what an assault rifle...a real assault rifle...is designed to do...high firepower, light-weight, medium ranges (300ish).
Those characteristics, by definition, are what make an assault rifle. So that's another no on the 7mm Magnum assault rifle.
There may well be some usefull application for a semi-automatic rifle in 7mm Magnum but it would be heavy...can't imagine one much under 12 pounds that would take a beating. That would be the kind of thing you'd deploy from a fixed position against distant targets.
Those characteristics, by definition, are what make an assault rifle. So that's another no on the 7mm Magnum assault rifle.
There may well be some usefull application for a semi-automatic rifle in 7mm Magnum but it would be heavy...can't imagine one much under 12 pounds that would take a beating. That would be the kind of thing you'd deploy from a fixed position against distant targets.
Sorry, but the modern BAR is not an "assault rifle"..
You Sir are correct!
Sure glad I added that next sentence to qualify my statement!
But wait! There's more!
Neither was the original 1918 BAR! In fact it was fully automatic! Oops, did I play into the evil Brady bunches hands yet again?
There's a line between providing information and becoming mired in dogma. The OP needs information, not a dogmatic lecture. Let's get a new shooter in the fold first, then we can explain the difference between a clip and a magazine...
Take a look at HoosierQ and carbinero1's posts for a "how to" on helping new folks.
You Sir are correct!
Sure glad I added that next sentence to qualify my statement!But wait! There's more!
Neither was the original 1918 BAR! In fact it was fully automatic! Oops, did I play into the evil Brady bunches hands yet again?
There's a line between providing information and becoming mired in dogma. The OP needs information, not a dogmatic lecture. Let's get a new shooter in the fold first, then we can explain the difference between a clip and a magazine...
Take a look at HoosierQ and carbinero1's posts for a "how to" on helping new folks.
Way too much cartridge for a modern battle rifle/assault rifle. Even too much cartridge for an old-style .308 battle rifle.
I would suggest an AR in 308. DPMS makes a LR 308 that is excellent. Much easier to handle than a 7mm mag will ever be. If you need more, get a 30-06 Garand. More of a battle rifle, but I don't think you will find what you want in 7mm mag. It's not a military round, and that is what most rifles like what you are looking for are chambered in.
308 and 30-06 have been around a long time, if 7mm mag were better for the application than we would have rifles chambered in 7mm mag.
308 and 30-06 have been around a long time, if 7mm mag were better for the application than we would have rifles chambered in 7mm mag.
Can you say Short Barrel Life!
A full-Auto 7mm Magnum would melt the barrel off in a few mags of full-auto fire.
rc
Al Thompson said:
Shaggy... ok, let me see if I can't clarify a little on what I thought his meaning is...
You are true, and 100% correct, the modern day Browning BAR is anything but an "assault rifle". However, being that it is one of the few semi-auto rifles available in the 7mm Mag, it is in fact also true that the Browning BAR is as "Close as you can get" to what is defined as an "assault rifle" by todays definition...
Al, I hope I did you're post justice...
Cheers...
The cartridge has great ballistics...for hunting and long range shooting. the majority of battle engagements are at 200 yards or less, in modern urban combat much much less. Forget quick follow up shots. Its accurate beyond its means, in that you aren't shooting an elk's heart at 600 yards, you are aiming COM at like 150 yards. Its over-powered as well, you don't want to kill people, the idea is wound so 2 or 3 guys have to drag away their injured buddy, now you have 3 or even 4 people out of the fight with a single shot.
IMO best "assault cartridge" 7.62x39. It's light, it penetrates better than it should, its had 60 to develop and can be found almost anywhere. It doesn't rely on tumbling or fragmenting, and if you have a hit you have a .30 cal hole minimum. It has been called the most survivable of rifle cartridges (not that I want to test that theory)
IMO best "assault cartridge" 7.62x39. It's light, it penetrates better than it should, its had 60 to develop and can be found almost anywhere. It doesn't rely on tumbling or fragmenting, and if you have a hit you have a .30 cal hole minimum. It has been called the most survivable of rifle cartridges (not that I want to test that theory)
The main reason there is no 7mm R.M. or anything similar in a current military rifle is that there is more emphasis now on weight and rate of fire than range. An 800 yard rifle is of less tactical value than a 300 yard rifle and twice or three times the ammo.
It was not always that way.
In 1910-1913 the British designed and built a rifle - bolt action in those days, naturally - for the developmental .276 Enfield cartridge. Canada had the .280 Ross; on the misunderstood Ross straight pull action.
Neither is quite up into 7mm R.M. ballistics, but they were hot rounds for the day. They were based on calculation and tests that convinced the brass that a 7mm would give the best compromise between power and manageable recoil.
The British stayed with the .303 as WW I loomed near, and the Canadians soon changed back after they got into combat and learned the faults of the Ross.
It was not always that way.
In 1910-1913 the British designed and built a rifle - bolt action in those days, naturally - for the developmental .276 Enfield cartridge. Canada had the .280 Ross; on the misunderstood Ross straight pull action.
Neither is quite up into 7mm R.M. ballistics, but they were hot rounds for the day. They were based on calculation and tests that convinced the brass that a 7mm would give the best compromise between power and manageable recoil.
The British stayed with the .303 as WW I loomed near, and the Canadians soon changed back after they got into combat and learned the faults of the Ross.
You could do something close pretty easily. Get an AR10 of some sort then convert it to 7mm WSM and get a drop in auto sear. Then you have pretty close to the same balistics in an assault rifle.
Float Pilot
Member
In real life,,,An Assault Rifle is a select fire (both semi and full auto) weapon that uses an intermediate powered cartridge. (between pistol /carbine and real rifle ammo)
The anti-gun news media and non-military folks who like to pose for photos wearing camo in their basement often incorrectly refer to semi-automatic sporting carbines as assault rifles.
While you could in therory convert an original BAR (1918A2) to fire 7mm Remington Magnum, (with enough money),,, there would be absolutly no advantage over the 30-06 cartridge for the intended application. In fact the belted magnum case would eventually cause a feeding problem from the magazine.
Firearm:......................... Assault Rifle?
M16,A1,A2,M4....................Yes
AR-15...............................No, semi auto sporting rifle /carbine
AK47 real...........................yes
AK sporter..........................NO
SKS carbine.........................NO, it is a semi automatic military carbine
AR-10 (real).........................NO,,,select fire RIFLE
AR10 semi..........................NO..semi-auto sporter
M14 (real)..........................NO select fire rifle
M1A..................................No, semi auto sporting rifle
Mini 14 select fire................yes
Mini 14 semi.........................NO
The anti-gun news media and non-military folks who like to pose for photos wearing camo in their basement often incorrectly refer to semi-automatic sporting carbines as assault rifles.
While you could in therory convert an original BAR (1918A2) to fire 7mm Remington Magnum, (with enough money),,, there would be absolutly no advantage over the 30-06 cartridge for the intended application. In fact the belted magnum case would eventually cause a feeding problem from the magazine.
Firearm:......................... Assault Rifle?
M16,A1,A2,M4....................Yes
AR-15...............................No, semi auto sporting rifle /carbine
AK47 real...........................yes
AK sporter..........................NO
SKS carbine.........................NO, it is a semi automatic military carbine
AR-10 (real).........................NO,,,select fire RIFLE
AR10 semi..........................NO..semi-auto sporter
M14 (real)..........................NO select fire rifle
M1A..................................No, semi auto sporting rifle
Mini 14 select fire................yes
Mini 14 semi.........................NO
armoredman
Member
Or you could split the differance, and get the new DPSM Panther AR clone in .338 Federal. 19 rounds of that, even though semi auto only, (i.e. not an "assault rifle!), should be stiff enough, think so?
CYANIDEGENOCIDE said:
This is outdated information. You want him dead. dead, dead dead. Until there are no messages going from his brain to his body, he is a threat. This is why permitted units, right now, are using the 77gr OTM rounds.
There is a big difference between fighting Commie conscripts in the 70's and 80's, and the "true believer's" that make up the terrorist armies of today.
Do a little research on the incident back in '93 in Mogadishu. Wounding potential is not always enough.
I do agree with your other points though.
This is outdated information. You want him dead. dead, dead dead. Until there are no messages going from his brain to his body, he is a threat. This is why permitted units, right now, are using the 77gr OTM rounds.
There is a big difference between fighting Commie conscripts in the 70's and 80's, and the "true believer's" that make up the terrorist armies of today.
Do a little research on the incident back in '93 in Mogadishu. Wounding potential is not always enough.
I do agree with your other points though.
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