800X as a pistol powder

[vaalpens]

It seems that 800X never shows up as a preferred or loved pistol powder for 9mm or 40S&W even though load data can be found. I understand that it does not meter well, and you can get under/over charges depending on what you use the measure your powder. I currently weigh each load, so possible under/over charges is not a concern unless I make a mistake.

Locally it has been very difficult to find any pistol powder, but 800X will show up once in a while. I have never used 800X, but would be willing to try it out if I have a better understanding why loaders don't like it as a pistol powder.

I would appreciate it if you can comment on why you don't like 800X as a pistol powder, especially for 9mm and 40S&W. Your comments will help me decide if I want to spend the money on 800X to work up some loads even with the possible shortcomings.

 

[Potatohead]

I get very good results when I use it. I think Ive even used it in 380. The metering problem is the only reason I dont reach for it more often, and the fact that I just seem to look at it as a shotgun powder for whatever reason (Im not even sure if it is a shot powder) just like American Select in that i seldom use it even though my results have been fantastic and I have a pretty big jug left...

Also, Its a top choice for 10mm from what I read. I would think it would be a real good one for 40 though I've never looked at 40 data.

One application that it did not work well was 9mm with 147 gr projectiles. It has worked well with other weight bullets though.

Why do you hand measure if I may ask?

Hopefully someone comes along with more experience with it, as Ive only used it in 6 or 8 sessions.

 

[vaalpens]

I get very good results when I use it. I think Ive even used it in 380. The metering problem is the only reason I dont reach for it more often, and the fact that I just seem to look at it as a shotgun powder for whatever reason (Im not even sure if it is a shot powder) just like American Select in that i seldom use it even though my results have been fantastic and I have a pretty big jug left...

Also, Its a top choice for 10mm from what I read.

Thanks for taking the time to provide some informative comments.

One application that it did not work well was 9mm with 147 gr projectiles. It has worked well with other weight bullets though.

Can you elaborate how and why it did not work well for 147gr projectiles?

Why do you hand measure if I may ask?

I am new to reloading and have not decided which powder measure to buy yet. I will probably wait a while and make a decision once I have a better idea what type of powders I will be using. In the mean time I will look around, and if one shows up at a price I can't refuse, then maybe I will buy it earlier.

 

[gunlaw]

Works well in 45 colt. However it does meter like cornflakes. I will be trying it in 10mm soon. I'll let you know how it works in that cartridge.

 

[Potatohead]

Regarding the 147gr projectile: I had to work all the way to max before it would start ejecting the case consistently. I'm not sure why exactly. At max it did eject fine, and felt fine, and didnt feel over powered, and I have a feeling going higher would have been ok but being fairly new to this, I dont have the urge to chart my own waters just yet if you know what I mean.

Don't let this scare you away from it though, I think it has some applications that will work very well in 9mm, and Im betting 40 would be even better.

 

[dirtman]

been using 700x lately in 9mm.... using a uniflo.... no problems but am careful to load up 50 IN A BLOCK then use brite lite, and scale about every tenth load..... have had no problems and the uniflo has done a good job... i also bought 2 lbs of 800 but have not tried it yet.... will be watching your thread.... all the best dirt....
i do snap the uniflo hard to make sure it flows well .....

 

[vaalpens]

Regarding the 147gr projectile: I had to work all the way to max before it would start ejecting the case consistently. I'm not sure why exactly. At max it did eject fine, and felt fine, and didnt feel over powered, and I have a feeling going higher would have been ok but being fairly new to this, I dont have the urge to chart my own waters just yet if you know what I mean.

Don't let this scare you away from it though, I think it has some applications that will work very well in 9mm, and Im betting 40 would be even better.

Thanks again for the information. I don't mind going to the maximum load, unless I can feel that it is probably not good for the gun. I normally shoot 124gr bullets, so it sounds like I won't have the same issue.

Part of the problem in deciding to buy 800X is also the price. They are selling it at premium powder that you can't find price, $35, so I am hesitant to buy it, work up some loads and then realize it is not something I want to use. If I was able to pick it up for around $20, the I probably would have taken the chance.

 

[vaalpens]

been using 700x lately in 9mm.... using a uniflo.... no problems but am careful to load up 50 IN A BLOCK then use brite lite, and scale about every tenth load..... have had no problems and the uniflo has done a good job... i also bought 2 lbs of 800 but have not tried it yet.... will be watching your thread.... all the best dirt....
i do snap the uniflo hard to make sure it flows well .....

Thanks. Please let us know how the 800X works out. For now I still dip, weigh and trickle, so metering is not an issue. I will keep the uniflow in mind once I decide to buy a powder measurer/dispenser.

 

[vaalpens]

Works well in 45 colt. However it does meter like cornflakes. I will be trying it in 10mm soon. I'll let you know how it works in that cartridge.

Thanks. Keep us posted regarding your 10mm results.

 

[dwhite]

Get a scale, find a load you like, make a dipper for the charge.

I find a powder measure more of a headache when changing rounds
and charge weights. I have dippers made for all my pet loads.

Even with Unique I can usually get +/- 0.1 grain with a dipper.
Should work good with 800X I would think. Probably all the
motion of scooping through the powder helps settle in in the
dipper.

All the Best,
D. White

 

[ATLDave]

If you check out the http://10mm-firearms.com/reloading-10mm-ammo forum, you will find that 800x and AA#9 are most often mentioned as the go-to powders for full-power loads behind 180+ grain bullets.

 

[Dave P]

I would not recommend 800x for a new reloader - it can give you extra high pressures if you dont pay attention to the details. Very sensitive.

That said, its great in 357 SIG and 10 mm. I have shot a boat load of it in both - good stuff, very powerful.

Prolly work fine in 40 cal, but get the load data from the vendors, not from us.

Lee dippers will work OK, and the Lee powder measure does fine, just pay attention.

 

[Potatohead]

I haven't had much luck with dippers, maybe I didnt give it enough of a chance.

Anywho,
Vaal, I'm with you, I wouldnt pay premium for it. My beloved imr 4756 or something from Western Powders maybe, but not for 800x. Especially not having worked up a pet load with it. That said, I don't see why it wouldn't produce a solid load for you.

Did not know it could give "extra high pressure", but I do now.

 

[ljnowell]

The biggest con is metering. 700x is bad and 800x is even worse.

The second problem is that it just isn't suited for 9mm in the case capacity vs. pressure issue.

 

[vaalpens]

Get a scale, find a load you like, make a dipper for the charge.

I find a powder measure more of a headache when changing rounds
and charge weights. I have dippers made for all my pet loads.

Even with Unique I can usually get +/- 0.1 grain with a dipper.
Should work good with 800X I would think. Probably all the
motion of scooping through the powder helps settle in in the
dipper.

All the Best,
D. White

I was thinking of making a dipper once I found a pet charge. Even now using the Lee dipper is not that bad since you get a feel how much is needed. For pistol load I basically scoop powder out of the top of the trickler with the dipper since it is just next to the beam scale, then tricle up to the load. It actually goes very quick.

 

[vaalpens]

If you check out the http://10mm-firearms.com/reloading-10mm-ammo forum, you will find that 800x and AA#9 are most often mentioned as the go-to powders for full-power loads behind 180+ grain bullets.

Thanks for the link. Maybe I need to start experiencing with 800X since the rumor came out that the Sig P220 will maybe come out in 10mm.

 

[vaalpens]

I would not recommend 800x for a new reloader - it can give you extra high pressures if you dont pay attention to the details. Very sensitive.

That said, its great in 357 SIG and 10 mm. I have shot a boat load of it in both - good stuff, very powerful.

Prolly work fine in 40 cal, but get the load data from the vendors, not from us.

Lee dippers will work OK, and the Lee powder measure does fine, just pay attention.

Thanks for the advice. If I do start using it, then I will make sure I follow the same procedures I follow today. I weigh each round using a beam scale and then eyeball all the loads before I seat the bullet. I am very careful.

 

[vaalpens]

I haven't had much luck with dippers, maybe I didnt give it enough of a chance.

Anywho,
Vaal, I'm with you, I wouldnt pay premium for it. My beloved imr 4756 or something from Western Powders maybe, but not for 800x. Especially not having worked up a pet load with it. That said, I don't see why it wouldn't produce a solid load for you.

Did not know it could give "extra high pressure", but I do now.

I don't think the dippers are very precise and I won't use only the dipper to measure. I just use the dipper to get a load just below what I need, then trickle in the rest. When you do it this way you realize that the dipper does not give you the same weight every time.

I don't think I want to pay premium now, but in a few weeks if I have not found any other powder yet, then I will probably have to pay the premium or stop reloading.

 

[vaalpens]

The biggest con is metering. 700x is bad and 800x is even worse.

The second problem is that it just isn't suited for 9mm in the case capacity vs. pressure issue.

I am ok with the metering issue, but can you explain what the issue is regarding case capacity vs pressure. Thanks.

 

[rsrocket1]

Here's my data.
The first table is 40 data is using the Lee 401-175TC (which for me drops 180g bullets) PC'ed and sized to 401 seated at 1.135" out of a S&W M&P40 4.25" barrel at 10 feet.

The second table is 9mm data using the Lee 356-120-TC PC'ed and sized to .356" seated to 1.10" out of the same M&P with the 9mm 4.25" barrel.

I agree with the others that 800X is difficult to measure but here are a few hints:
If your system has a rifle and pistol rotor, use the rifle rotor. A wide shallow cavity is more consistent than a deep narrow cavity. Tap the measure several times as the powder is filling the rotor and several times to make sure all of it drops into the case.

Don't load to a maximum load. Load at least 0.3-0.4g below or better yet to a mid range load. That way if your charges are inconsistent, you just have some light feeling loads and no overcharges.

If you do that, then 800-x is a fine plinking load similar in performance to Herco (medium to slightly slower than medium speed powder). If you can get consistent drops, then it is an excellent all around pistol powder.

 

[Jesse Heywood]

I have tried 800-x in 9mm with 124 fmj & 125 lrn. Accuracy was very good, but recoil was heavy. Since I scored 8 lb of IMR 7625, I have stopped using anything else in 9 mm. I do still load it in big revolvers.

 

[vaalpens]

Here's my data.
The first table is 40 data is using the Lee 401-175TC (which for me drops 180g bullets) PC'ed and sized to 401 seated at 1.135" out of a S&W M&P40 4.25" barrel at 10 feet.

The second table is 9mm data using the Lee 356-120-TC PC'ed and sized to .356" seated to 1.10" out of the same M&P with the 9mm 4.25" barrel.

I agree with the others that 800X is difficult to measure but here are a few hints:
If your system has a rifle and pistol rotor, use the rifle rotor. A wide shallow cavity is more consistent than a deep narrow cavity. Tap the measure several times as the powder is filling the rotor and several times to make sure all of it drops into the case.

Don't load to a maximum load. Load at least 0.3-0.4g below or better yet to a mid range load. That way if your charges are inconsistent, you just have some light feeling loads and no overcharges.

If you do that, then 800-x is a fine plinking load similar in performance to Herco (medium to slightly slower than medium speed powder). If you can get consistent drops, then it is an excellent all around pistol powder.

Thanks for the advice and load data. Looking at the burn rate chart, I see that 800X is at 38, Herco at 35, and AutoComp what I currently use, even slower at 43.

I will be comfortable using 800x even with the metering issues, but I will try not to push it to the maximum loads. I will probably check again if I can't find any else by the weekend locally, and if not, then maybe settle for 800x.

 

[ljnowell]

I am ok with the metering issue, but can you explain what the issue is regarding case capacity vs pressure. Thanks.

It's sort of like w296 or h110 in small volume cases.

Let's look at 9mm vs 357 mag and hit. 45 colt. W296 works great in both 357 mag and hot 45 colt. 9mm operates at a similar pressure to 357 mag and a little higher than most hot 45 colt loads. W296 however will not work in 9mm because even though the pressure level is right, there is not enough case capacity.

IMO( and I'm not a paid expert so take it as you will) the 10mm auto is the lowest mainstream cartridge that 800x is good in. Most everything below that level such as 9mm, 45ACP, 40S&W, etc would benefit from a different powder.

Yes it will work, but it will not be optimum.

 

[vaalpens]

I have tried 800-x in 9mm with 124 fmj & 125 lrn. Accuracy was very good, but recoil was heavy. Since I scored 8 lb of IMR 7625, I have stopped using anything else in 9 mm. I do still load it in big revolvers.

Good to know that it will add some recoil. My 9mm feels a bit soft when I shoot the 40S&W also, so maybe a bit heavier recoil won't be bad, but I don't want to be shooting +P rounds. No need to add additional wear to the gun. Enjoy your 8 lb's of IMR7625 and be safe.

 

[enine]

Hodgdon has loads for 700x and 800x on their site. I have some of each. I found 700x pretty soft, I had to go up .4 grains above starting load just to get it to cycle reliably where tightgroup cycled fine at the starting load. I haven't had the chance to try 800x yet.