8208 XBR for AR 15?

[quartermaster]

I have had my Stag model 2T since Obama got elected in 2008. I have never shot it yet, but have accumulated components for it over the years. I recently retired and decided that now is the time to get into it.

I have spent numerous hours prepping 1K of once fired LC brass for it as well as 1700 new Winchester brass. I sized and trimmed all to minimum specs in hopes that I will get 2 firings from them before they have to be trimmed again. After spending way too much effort removing the primer crimp on the LC brass, I purchased a Dillon 600 to do the job next time.

I have been loading rifles for over 20 years and pistols for 6 or 7 years, but loading for an AR is kind of a new experience for me, hence this post.

I set up my Dillon RL 550 B the other night to get ready to load. I had intended to use Varget, but it doesn't meter as uniformly as 8208 XBR, which I recently was able to aquire a lot of.

Has anyone used this in their ARs? I also was wondering at what pressure range did the guns operate best and give the best accuracy? I know all guns may react differently and will do my homework to safely load. I also realize that my starting load will be lower in the LC brass than in the Winchester. I am looking for accuracy over velocity. Naturally I would like to shoot 1/2" groups, but I figure that will be next to impossible, so hopefully I will get 1". Am I asking too much?

Another question regarding crimping the bullet. I have 1K of Hornady 55 gr FMJs with a crimp groove which I intend to use a slight taper crimp with in the LC brass and I have 4K 55 gr Nosler BTs that I am going to use with the Winchester brass. I definitely will also crimp these. My crimps will be as slight as possible as I have heard that tight crimps are detrimental to accuracy. I guess that I will have to slam the action shut a few times and check for COAL growth to get the right crimp.

I'm curious to get opinions on my powder choice. I guess if the rifle doesn't shoot as well as I would like, I will try different powders after trying different charges with the 8208.

I have loaded many pistol rounds with my Dillon, but new to .223s. BTW, I did change my powder charge bar.

Suggestions and opinions are welcomed

Thanks

 

[Walkalong]

The LC brass may or may not be heavier than the Winchester. You need to weight them.

For accuracy loads most people do not crimp AR ammo, but rely on neck tension, which works just fine.

I do like to lightly taper crimp my 55 Gr FMJ plinking ammo. A roll crimp works, but case length needs to be uniform and the canellure needs to have a real indention to roll into, as well as being consistently in the same place on the bullet, unlike some Win 55 Gr FMJs I have. The cannelures are all over the place on them.

Get a Wilson case gauge to set up your sizer with. This will ensure you are pushing the shoulder back far enough, without over doing it. Case life will still be good assuming the gun's chamber is in spec.

You can chamber some rounds from the mag to check for bullet setback, but more crimp won't help unless it is a good crimp into the middle of a good canellure (One that has some indention, which the Hornady is pretty good.) Neck tension is really where the work needs to be done. A little setback is fine, just don't keep re-chambering the same round over and over and then fire it without visually checking it.

I would not crimp those ballistic tips, but instead rely on neck tension. You should be just fine.

 

[MtnCreek]

I'm around hodgdon max w/ Horn 55gr FMJ's and around 0.5 gr less than Hodgdon max with 55gr Nosler BT's. The FMJ's are loaded to velocity w/o much concern for accuracy. The N BT's are loaded to shoot more accurately, but velocity is still a major factor. I prefer Varget for most .223, but I use more 8208 than anything because it meters well through a Dillon.

 

[quartermaster]

I recently helped and showed a friend how to load for his Garand. I definitely had to crimp those heads as the COAL grew when slamming the action. I was hoping that I wouldn't have to do it with my 223s. That's good news. I will definitely try loading without a crimp and see if the neck tension will hold the bullet in place.

I do have all Redding bushing dies and use them to aquire my desired .002 neck tension on my bolt action rifles which requires neck turning for uniformity. I hope that I can get enough neck tension to hold the bullet using my Dillon die set in my press. I* was hoping to sit down by my RL 550 next time and just load without doing any brass prep again until trimming was needed.

I also set my shoulders back .002 on my bolt action rifles. I wondered if it would create a functioning problem in an AR. I know it would extend brass life, but I wouldn't want to load up a bunch of rounds and find out that there is a chambering problem. How much do you typically set back the shoulders when loading for your AR. Do you play with bullet seating depth or is that asking for a problem?

Is MOA accuracy asking too much?

 

[MtnCreek]

I hope that I can get enough neck tension to hold the bullet using my Dillon die set in my press.

I use a Dillon .223 die and have no issues. I've not measured, but I do believe it gives more than 0.002.

I also set my shoulders back .002 on my bolt action rifles. I wondered if it would create a functioning problem in an AR.

I hope your AR has a forward assist...

Is MOA accuracy asking too much?

With the Horn 55 FMJ, yes, but probably not by much (~1.5 or so).
The BT shoots very well in every AR I've used, so if your rifle is up to MOA, the bullet won't hold you back.

 

[cfullgraf]

Is MOA accuracy asking too much?

AR-15s are capable of better than 1 MOA accuracy particularly if they have free floating hand guard and a good trigger. FMJ bullets are not always the best choice for accuracy due to the open base of the bullet.

I load to magazine length in mine AR-15s and that is no where near the rifling. For folks that shoot Service Rifle, they load the 80 grain bullets longer than magazine length due to their construction and they are used in stages that require loading single shots.

I do not crimp my AR-15 loads or my Garand loads either. If you are using bushing dies, you may need to go to the next smaller bushing or return to a standard die with an expander button to get enough neck tension.

Generally, lots of case prep for AR-15s is considered a waste of time for a variety of reasons including short case life. Sierra Bullets has a nice article on loading for gas guns. See here.

http://www.exteriorballistics.com/reloadbasics/gasgunreload.cfm

Hope this helps.

 

[quartermaster]

good reading from Sierra

 

[Walkalong]

You need to FL size for the AR. If your Redding bushing die is FL, you are good to go. You may have to go to a smaller bushing. It depends on how much you are taking off the necks when turning now, but I suspect you will need a smaller bushing.

Much better than 1 MOA is not too much to ask with a good barrel, good bullets, and a good load.

.002 shoulder push back is as minimal as I would go for an auto, and .003 is better, IMO. I am sizing to fit the Wilson Gauge and I am still getting 8 to 12 firings before primer pockets get loose, with no sign of incipient case head separation. Mixed range brass. IMO, minimal shoulder setback isn't going to help anything, and may cause chambering problems on some "resistant" cases which spring back more.

 

[quartermaster]

Thanks to all. I appreciate your thoughts and input.

Just to clarify things. If I lead you to believe I am using bushing dies to load this AR, I apologize, as I am using the Dillon dies. I use bushing dies for all my other rifles. I will never regret moving to them from my old RCBS and Hornady dies. I always figured I was nuts buying all new Redding dies, but as I look back, I would do it again in a heartbeat.

It's time to play.

Thank you again for the info. I know a bit more now than I did when I started this thread.