870 Exp. HD for bird hunting

[1911user]

I am purchasing a 28 inch bird barrel for an 870 express shotgun here; it seems like a good deal. It also means I'll now have an excuse to purchase an 870

I'd like to be able to use it for birds, basic skeet/trap, HD, and entry-level 3-gun. The 28" barrel should handle birds/skeet/trap. A shorter barrel, extended mag, and (maybe) rifle sights would handle HD and 3-gun.

One option is the HD version of the express with the 2-shot mag extension. Downside is clyinder bore only and I'm not sure if the 2 shot extension can be removed for hunting birds. A little choke to give more range with buckshot would be desirable.

Another option is the "deer gun" version of the 870 exp with the fixed IC choke and rifle sights. It comes with a monte carlo stock and I don't know how well that'd work with the 28" VR barrel for birds/skeet. Do I need 2 types of stock? Would adding a 2 or 3 shot extension to the mag be easy and not permanent?

Suggestions?

 

[Dave McCracken]

Installing or de-installing an extension is a 10 minute job except for those darn dimples. The HD Express has none. Get a standard spring and cap and you'll be fine. Just be careful of where the mag is pointed while unscrewing the cap.

A HD Express with a long second barrel and a couple choke tubes pretty much covers all the bases for things shotgun.

And $65 is a very good price.

Enjoy....

 

[Rob62]

He he he .......I almost regret selling it that cheaply But I'm glad someone got a good deal.

If it had not sold at that price I would be placing it on E bay today. As a matter of fact I was going to pull the post this AM when I checked my e mail and PM's. If the barrel had not been spoken for by 1911user it would not be available any more.


Good Shooting,
Rob

 

[ArmedBear]

Monte Carlo stock might actually be cool for trap, where you start pointing low and usually are shooting at a rising target, but for skeet and birds, a regular old field stock will probably make you a lot happier.

870 balances well. With the Express finish, use gun wipes of some sort (Bullfrog are my favorites, but Birchwood-Casey are fine if that's what you can find) if you sweat on it.

With (very) occasional cleaning and oiling, even the cheapest Express like I have is a smooth shucker. Can be picky about cheap ribbed shells. It will cycle absolutely everything from Remington flawlessly, Federal can be a tad sticky, but forget about cheap Winchesters (smooth hull AA shells are fine). Otherwise, it is functionally a great gun.

Do you really want a 28" barrel for skeet? Remember that the overall length of the gun is 4 feet with a 28" barrel on it; this is about as long as a break-open trap gun with a 32" barrel. And for upland birds mine also seems a bit sluggish, though it works great for trap. 26" might suit your specs a bit better, and will work well for turkey, too.

 

[Fred Fuller]

Rob,

Good deal on that barrel.

Do you recall whether or not it had a detent ball in place? That might make a difference to 1911user as to what version of the Express he eventually buys.

One of the great advantages to the 870 is its modularity. With a small collection of extra parts you can fit the gun to a wide variety of roles quickly and easily to cover everything from 3-gun to HD to large game hunting to clay games to wingshooting and small game hunting.

1911user, if you get the 870HD version with the factory magazine extension it should have a detent ball in place to help retain the magazine extension's cap. You will want to get an old style magazine cap that is set up for use with detent ball type barrels in order to use the longer barrel with no magazine extension in place, assuming the barrel you are getting from Rob has the detent ball.

Stay safe,

lpl/nc

 

[Rob62]

Lee,

Good point about the mag cap detent. This barrel came off of a recently made 870 Express as such it DOES NOT have the mag cap detent.

I hope that does not make a difference to 1911user. I'll PM him in case he doesn't see this post.

As many of you know 870's can be addicting. I currently have 3 that I'll admit to and am always looking for another great deal.

Rob

 

[1911user]

Do the dimpled express mag tubes still have threads on the outside where a normal mag cap (or 1-piece extension) would screw on?

I've been reading about the dimples and other games Remington has done to restrict people using their shotguns as they wish. This is frustrating.

 

[Rob62]

Do the dimpled express mag tubes still have threads on the outside where a normal mag cap (or 1-piece extension) would screw on?

Yes they do. Magazine extensions can still be installed on the tubes but in order for them to function properly the "dimples" have to be removed first.

They, the mag tubes, are identical to the original or older mag tubes with the exception of having the dimples. I'm not sure "dimples" is actually the best term for the depressions created. The depressions look like two vertical slot depressions. Like someone took a flathead screwdriver and pressed the tip into the mag tube thereby moving the metal into the tube.

These depressions are easily removed by drilling or dremeling them out.

Rob

 

[ArmedBear]

Do the dimpled express mag tubes still have threads on the outside where a normal mag cap (or 1-piece extension) would screw on?

I've been reading about the dimples and other games Remington has done to restrict people using their shotguns as they wish. This is frustrating.

Actually, the accusation is a bit silly.

The dimples hold the spring and the hunting magazine plug into the magazine, so they don't all fly out when you take off the barrel. I often take off the barrel at the range, to clean sweat off the thing before I pack the gun up, or so I can stash the gun out of sight when I go have lunch. I like having the dimples in my field gun; they serve a purpose.

Note also that the cops have used 870s for years, with the same 4+1 capacity as the field gun.

 

[1911user]

If it's so useful, then why do only the newer, lower-cost express models have the dimple "feature"? It restricts the use of extended mag tubes to the more expensive models. I don't think that is a coincidence. The only exception is the HD express model with the 2 shot extension and that's a relatively new offering. It's going to be harder to add a longer bird/trap barrel to the HD with the +2 extension. They are stifling easy versatility.

What it means to me is I'll have to use plumbers teflon tape (temporary thread locker) or something like it to keep the magazine cap on when after I decide to remove the dimples and use a mag extension for 3-gun or HD. That's a "feature"? I disagree.

 

[ArmedBear]

The dimples also hold the "guts" in the magazine so you can take the gun down without having to be careful.

You want an all-steel, American-made shotgun for $260 brand new, then you bitch about a design feature that frankly makes the gun reliable and easy to deal with in the field?

I don't know about 3-gun but 5 rounds should be sufficient for a basic HD gun, as well as a hunting shotgun.

Get a Mossberg 500 combo, then. I saw them today at Big 5 with 2 barrels (18.5" and 28") for $219 brand new. They have 5+1 capacity with no extension. Twin beads, wide rib. Not the prettiest gun ever made, but perfect for your purpose.

 

[1911user]

The Mossberg combo is a good buy for basic use. However, the 18.5 inch barrel is a cylinder bore with plain bead. After reading the archives here, I'm more convinced that I want at least an IC choke in the short barrel (tighter patterns with buckshot). Rifle sights would be useful as well for slug use beyond 40 yards. Not a good fit.

Mossbergs can't use a mag extension due to how the barrel attaches to the front of the mag tube. The 7 round mag Mossbergs (Persuader/Cruiser) have a special longer mag tube and barrel made to be used together.

In 3-gun shooting, mag capacity is a big deal for rifle, pistol, and shotgun. The more shells in the shotgun, the less time spent reloading while standing in one spot. 3-gun events are almost always timed and a combination of high score and low time wins.

In a HD situation, I'd like the option for more than 4-5 shells in the shotgun. I may not need them, but I'd still like the option. In advanced shotgun training, being able to switch ammo types quickly is important. By having the mag loaded 1 or 2 less than full, it is a simple matter of putting the desired round into the mag then pumping to load it. It's slower and more difficult with a full mag. Hence, an advantage of extended mag tubes.

I'm glad you like the dimples. I'll just have to find a way to work around them.

 

[JStordahl]

I ran across a used 870 Magnum Special Purpose today, in excellent condition, and I bought it. This shotgun also has the dimples, and I was wondering if anybody has installed metal replacements for the plastic units in the mag tube or if they are even available? I don't plan on removing the dimples on this one. Thanks.

 

[ArmedBear]

If you buy the 870 with the mag extension, you won't have to remove the dimples. You may need to get a few other parts (mag cap, standard length spring, mag plug to limit magazine to 2 rounds) to use the gun for hunting.

Just understand that you are asking a lot of a single gun. You can get the gun to do these things, but not without compromises. I figure a regular 870 Express is a functional shotgun for just about every purpose, for cheap, but I don't ask it to be perfect for every purpose. With no dimples, it will be suboptimal for field use. But it will be serviceable if you are careful. With dimples, it makes a fine field gun and basic defensive shotgun, but as you said, it's not a 3-gun competitor.

Best of luck at all these pursuits! The good news is that the 870s are cheap and durable.

 

[AStone]

OK, so it's late, been a long day, and I'm really tired.

I've read this thread, but am still a bit confused. So, please forgive a stupid question.

I finally got a check from the estate lawyer, and plan to order an 870P tomorrow.

!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

So, does an 870P have 'dimples'?

If so, will that prevent me from easily changing to:

1) a +1 extension (just to take the tension off the spring)

2) a longer barrel for squirrel & birds

Thanks,

Nem

 

[Fred Fuller]

Nem, the 870P DOES NOT have magazine tube dimples. No worries there, the 5-shot 879P version uses the same spring steel cup type magazine spring retention device 870s have used since the 1950s. The plastic-plug magazine spring retainer and the magazine tube dimples which hold it in place were a change Remington made (for what reason I don't know) in the mid-1990s or thereabouts in their Express line of 870s.

I wonder if using the plastic plug with a new type mag cap will serve to keep the cap tight even though the plug is free to rotate in the magazine tube? Anyone tried it that way? Would just the pressure from the mag spring be enough to keep everything in place? It would be awkward removing the barrel because with the mag cap gone there would be nothing to keep the plug and mag spring in place- they would have to be removed also. I think I have all the necessary parts, if no one has used this method I will give it a try.

JStordahl, best leave everything as is, if you aren't going to take out the dimples. Nothing wrong with the plastic magazine followers I have seen so far. There are metal replacements for them if you insist on spending the money, check the Brownells catalog. As far as the notched plastic plug holding in the mag spring, i know of no metal replacement for it, nor is there any need of one if the dimples will remain in place. Some folks want the option of using magazine extensions and the dimples preclude that, thus the distaste for the dimples in some circles.

lpl/nc

 

[Rob62]

Nematocyst-870,

(Edited to say - I see Lee beat me to the response)

To answer your question. The 870P does NOT have the dimples in the magazine tube. Neither does the Wingmaster, or older model 870 Express'.

There are no problems with using a magazine extension with the 870P.

As a side note. Currently, I own and use only older model 870 Express'. These guns are getting harder and harder to find in good condition, but for my purposes they are every bit as good as any other model 870.

If I ever get my camera fixed I will post some pics of my guns.

Hey Lee -

"I wonder if using the plastic plug with a new type mag cap will serve to keep the cap tight even though the plug is free to rotate in the magazine tube? Anyone tried it that way? Would just the pressure from the mag spring be enough to keep everything in place? "

I tried this, and the mag cap does work its way loose after a lengthy shooting session if the dimples have been removed . I cheated the system by using a sling mount that fits between the barrel band and mag cap. The sling mount (Wilson??) has a ball bearing type mag cap detent installed in the sling mount and it seemed to keep the cap from working loose.

1911user says he will attemp to work around this issue by using thread tape on the magazine tube threads. I believe this will work out just as well as my work around. I really wish that Remington had kept the design as it was. I HATE those dimples. But one of my "older" Express' has the dimples and I plan on keeping them in place. I got a great deal on the gun and it had the aluminum trigger group housing vs the plastic one.


Regards,
Rob

 

[1911user]

I cheated the system by using a sling mount that fits between the barrel band and mag cap. The sling mount (Wilson??) has a ball bearing type mag cap detent installed in the sling mount and it seemed to keep the cap from working loose.

I like this idea better than using teflon tape and a sling mount could be handy. The teflon tape idea was a first cut for a temporary thread lock solution. Is this the sling mount you used? http://www.wilsoncombat.com/sa_slings_mounts.asp

 

[ArmedBear]

I like this idea better than using teflon tape and a sling mount could be handy. The teflon tape idea was a first cut for a temporary thread lock solution. Is this the sling mount you used? http://www.wilsoncombat.com/sa_slings_mounts.asp

That's the best idea. The purpose of the dimples is to keep the plastic plug from spinning. The plastic plug, which is under spring tension from the magazine spring, has a sawtooth edge that engages with the magazine cap. This keeps it from spinning.

Remington did this, I'm sure, to save a few bucks on manufacturing costs, so they could stay price-competitive in the entry-level/field shotgun market. The Police and Wingmaster versions are MUCH more expensive, though no one who buys one seems to regret the decision.

One thing to consider... Before spending too much on accessories, could you buy 2 guns for a similar price? I've seen 3-gun-ready 870's, with mag extension of course, for under $300 new, and Expresses for $260.

 

[AStone]

Lee & Rob62, thanks for the clarification. I understand now.

Best,

Nem

 

[Rob62]

1911user - the sling mount looked just like the side mount at the link you provided above. But it was not Wilson stamped. You can even see the mag cap detent in the pic.

Since the detent in the sling mount does not have anywhere to go with there not being a mag cap detent in the barrel band, it and or the mag cap you use will eventually wear down faster than if a mag detent were present in the barrel ring.

On one of the shotguns I had, I used this technique for about a year with no real noticable wear. However, I did not take it apart often.

Regards,
Rob