A few Rem 870 questions. Help deciding

[vicdotcom]

Hello friends,

I have some questions and figure this would be a great place to ask for help.
I am thinking about getting an 870 for various purposes. Some bird shooting and HD.

Here are the questions though:

What is the difference between an 870 and 870 express?

If it is an 870 express magnum, then it can handle magnum rounds, but is the reciever thicker?

And lastly, since I know that bird rounds and HD rounds take different barrels, so I will get a second one that is 18-20 inches for HD. But if I purchase a 870 express Magnum shotgun, will it also need an express magnum replacement barrel? or will a regular 870 barrel do?

Thanks for the help all. I can get it for about 250$ for a 870 express magnum with 26in barrel. But the answers to these questions may impact my decicion to buy the express or not.

Thanks all
Vic

 

[fireman 9731]

All of the barrels are the same, but the receiver will be a little bigger if its a super magnum-that takes 3 and 1/2 inch shells- than the regular magnum that can take 2 and 3/4in and 3in shells.

The difference in the 870 express and the others is mostly just the finish and stock options.

However, the 870 is a great gun and should serve both of your needs quite well.

 

[dfariswheel]

Here's the differences:

Differences between the Express and Wingmaster
The Express is Remington's "budget" gun, made to compete with the cheaper to make Winchester and Mossberg guns.
The Wingmaster is Remington’s "Cadillac" top-of-the-line sporting gun.

The new "Tactical" and Marine Magnum guns are based on the Express.

How Remington lowered the Express price was to reduce hand labor to a bare minimum, and to eliminate much of the polishing and de-burring the better quality Wingmaster gets.

The Express is basically the same forged and milled steel receiver and heavy-duty internals gun the better 870's are, just in a rougher, less well finished form with plastic and MIM parts. The gun is just as tough and durable as the more expensive Wingmaster.

The Express Model has:
A plastic trigger group.
The dimples in the mag tube and the new style plastic magazine retention system, EXCEPT on the extended magazine versions, which do NOT have the dimples.
A rougher finish inside and outside, with machine marks and some burrs left.
A rougher, bead blasted blue job.
A less polished bore.
A two piece sleeved barrel. (not 100% sure about this)
Hardwood or synthetic stock, with a sporting-length fore end and pressed-in checkering.
The Defense version has 18", Cylinder bore barrel, with a bead sight.
The Marine Magnum and Tactical models have plated or polymer finishes.
Some Metal Injection Molded (MIM) parts, like the extractor.

The Wingmaster has:
An aluminum trigger group, (Possibly changed to polymer in 2008).
The old style magazine retention system.
A much smoother finish inside and out, no machine marks or burrs.
The Wingmaster gun receives a higher level of inspection and finishing.
A fine, commercial polished blue finish.
A polished bore.
A chrome plated bolt.
A one piece barrel.
Walnut stocks with the famous "Bowling Pin" finish in gloss or satin. and better checkering.
Wide choices in barrel lengths and choke options.
No use of MIM parts, the extractor is milled.
The Wingmaster is the full top-of-the-line commercial Remington pump gun, and is priced accordingly.

The Express is a "bottom of the line" budget gun, the Wingmaster is a "top of the line" sporting gun.
The 870's are generally considered to be the finest quality pump gun made.

 

[vicdotcom]

Thanks everyone for the quality responses. I am certainly going to pick it up. I just was not sure if I needed a special magnum barrel or anything. But for the price it looks like a great deal.

Thanks again all!
I love this forum
Vic

 

[jlv08]

I would opt for a used Wingmaster if you can find one. No doubt the best made modern shotgun in the last century.

They can be had real reasonable and if ya get a good one, you're set,

I'm gonna ruffle a few feathers about the Express. We have had a few in my family and they( Express shotguns) were less than stellar. It seems, from what I and others close to me to compare the guns have had problems with was rusting finishes and finicky feed. It is a price point shotgun and can be made better in my opinion.

Other folks have had better luck but not me. Rust grew like moss on mine and my bro. In laws shotgun. it never really "smoothed up" after shooting.

I know a guy in the sticks here in Tidewater whose Express(what ever year it was made) is above and beyond what I experienced with mine.

GO FIGURE. Get the Wingmaster.

 

[Fred Fuller]

The current sporting style Express guns use a different system to retain the magazine spring and detent the magazine cap than older Expresses, and all Wingmasters, Police guns etc. That new system consists of a toothed plastic piece, retained in the end of the magazine tube by two pressed-in dimples, which both holds the magazine spring in place and keeps the magazine cap tight.

The older Express guns, plus the Wingmasters, Police guns etc., use a spring-loaded detent on the barrel ring to keep the magazine cap tight, and use a cup shaped spring steel magazine spring retainer which is press fitted into the end of the magazine tube to hold the magazine spring in place when the magazine cap is removed. This retainer can be pried out fairly easily if necessary to clean out the magazine tube.

The current production Home Defense version of the Express gun (with a factory installed magazine extension) has no magazine tube dimples (which interfere with the use of an aftermarket magazine extension on other newer Express guns), and has the old style spring loaded magazine cap detent in its barrel ring.

It's best IMHO to segregate barrels by type- old style versus new style, and stick to the design that is basic to the gun you have when shopping for spare barrels. Otherwise you have to use alternative ways to keep the magazine cap tight, like teflon tape on the threads of the magazine tube.

Keep in mind that the 21" vent rib barrels made for the Special Field version of the 870 will not interchange with other guns in the same gauge- the barrel ring is in a different place on the Special Field barrels. Otherwise all 12 ga. 870 barrels should interchange with no problem, save for the caveat about the two different systems for retaining the magazine cap and magazine spring described above.

lpl

 

[deacon8]

jlv08,


"No doubt the best made modern shotgun in the last century"??

Wow, that is quite a statement. I do really like the Winemaster. I actually don't really care for the express though. That is just my opinion. The differences are unreal though...the Wingmaster is a much more "finished" shotgun in ALL aspects. Seriously though, that statement is definitely "going out on a limb." haha!

 

[Fred Fuller]

that statement is definitely "going out on a limb."

Might be, deacon8, but it's an awfully THICK limb...

lpl

 

[jlv08]

Well, If you consider a model 12 Wichester in the mix of things, we might be having a different conversation. They had to discontinue them due to production costs and hence came the model 1200.The Wingmaster,or any I've held shot, and own functioned flawlessly and were produced in numbers to arm an army three times over. I'd say that I am on a fat limb on that statement!

 

[WVMountainBoy]

Just purchased a 870 Express 7 Shot myself. So far 100 cheap wally mart winchester 8 shot low brass, 5 rds of Win 00 buck 9 pellet, and 2 Remington Sluggers I am confident in the weapons ability and reliability. I've heard that the MIM extractor might go, but I've just decided to order one of the milled parts to throw in the pin JIC. The gun points as good as any of my singles and maybe as good as my favorite double (maybe) but the ability to lay down 7 rounds is what made me decide to secure one for HD/walk around use.

 

[8200rpm]

Birdshot and buckshot don't necessarily require different barrels. Most people just prefer a longer, removable choke barrels for hunting and shorter, cylinder or improved cylinder fixed choke barrel for defensive use.

Your first question should be magazine capacity...

If a 4+1 capacity is sufficient for your needs for both birds and HD, any hunting 870 Express will do. 18.5" Express barrels for HD go for around $120. Simply swap barrels. If mag capacity isn't an issue, this is the less costly approach.

If you want more than 4 shots in the magazine tube for HD, just start with a factory 7-shot 18.5" 870 Express (#25077). To convert to hunting, replace the +2 extension with an Wingmaster compatible magazine cap, install an old style spring retainer (optional), 4-shot magazine spring (original extended mag spring will probably work), follower plug (if you need to limit your magazine capacity for hunting regs), and a longer hunting barrel w/ ball detent. Ventilated rib barrels cost closer to $200 or more (especially for Wingmaster ball detent barrels), and the potential need for the few other small parts makes this the more costly approach. That's the trade off for extended magazine capacity.

 

[Birdhunter1]

I'll cast my vote for the best shotgun ever made. On par with an AK 47, it will always go bang, just a better fit and finish!

I fully agree with the Wingmaste vs. Express versions, most of the people I have heard of that didn't like their 870's had an Express, the Wingmasters are awesome.

For what it's worth if I had only one gun it would be my 870 Wingmaster 12 gauge.

 

[vicdotcom]

Hey guys thanks for all the great insight so far. I greatly appreciate it. I already put a down on the 870 and I am ordering the 18 inch barrel for HD. I think the 5 rounds are more than adequare for HD since I can always reload with a saddle. But its good to know I can always switch out parts if I wanted more ammo.

Thanks again all!
Vic

 

[batex]

There are a few exceptions to what has been said about Express model 870. Recently, I found what I guess is a very early model Remington Express 870 that has the forged extractor and the older style magazine without the "dimples". I think it also has an aluminum trigger guard but I don't recall for certain. This gun appears to be very well built with a very nice smooth action (although not as nice as a 70's vintage Wingmaster I have). I point this out because 870's are plentiful in pawn shops (at least in my area) so with a little poking around, you might find one of these earlier models.