87gr VMAX loading suggestions

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Ime the btips will be longer because the ogive doesn't cause the bullet to be as "blunt" as the prohunters, especially with the plastic tip, I would bet it's closer to the vmax length lol, thanks for sharing though, savage and Remington allow a lil more length and whilst I've eyeballed the ruger American lines quite a bit I didn't know they'd be so short!
As far as I know the only thing changed on the compact was barrel length and length of pull. Action and chamber should be the same as full size version. Been breaking it in with Federal fusion 95gr and Winchester extreme point factory offerings. Sweet little gun so far!
 

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As far as I know the only thing changed on the compact was barrel length and length of pull. Action and chamber should be the same as full size version. Been breaking it in with Federal fusion 95gr and Winchester extreme point factory offerings. Sweet little gun so far!
LOVE the fusions, impressively accurate for the price! In case you weren't aware, rmr sells pulled fusions....
 
This is a 100yd sighting group with the Winchester stuff. Pretty good for factory ammo! Also it's 90° with 87000% humidity right now.
 

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This is a 100yd sighting group with the Winchester stuff. Pretty good for factory ammo! Also it's 90° with 87000% humidity right now.
Can't wait to see your handload results! Got up to 94 here with teasing clouds and too much humidity, I miss my arid climate, remedying this asap I swear!
 
"...optimal headspace..." There's no such thing.
"...using data for IMR 4064..." Whatever for? There's IMR4166 data on Hodgdon's site. Use the 90 grain data. Three grains won't matter.
"...load to mag length..." Load to the max OAL given in your manual. Mag length is mostly a guess. 2.710" is MAX.
"... after 400 yards..." Every .243 bullet is headed down. Drop like bricks past 300.

I don't agree with a single line of this post.

1) There certainly is such a thing as optimal headspace for any given rifle type. Optimal headspace for brass sizing is simple - in a bolt gun, it's a shoulder position which closes easily, with slight resistance felt. Typically, this is 1-2thou sized from fireformed 2x or 3x fired cases. The bolt closes reliably and easily, but the brass isn't overworked or under length to produce inconsistent ignition or case separation. Pretty straight forward.

2) The Hodgdon 90grn data is for the Speer Hotcor - a VERY different bullet than the 87grn V-max. The respective load data for these different bullets can be considerably different - for example, the 87grn V-max data in Hornady's manual shows H4895 at 28.7-35.3grn, while Hodgdon lists H4985 for the 90grn Speer HotCor at 34.0-36.5grn - over a grain more for the Hodgdon data. For W760, Hornady lists 42.5grn as max for the 87grn V-max, Hodgdon lists 43.5grn as max for the 90grn Speer HotCor... Again, a grain more. Different bullets, different load data.

3) 2.710" is NOT the manual listed maximum for the 87grn V-max. 2.640" is the listed max. SAAMI max doesn't mean squat for real-world rifles. If a guy wants to seat the boattail to the base of the neck, you'll have the 87grn V-max seated to 2.690"-2.700" --> this length will give you .240" (full neck) of bearing surface contact. Find your leade, subtract your desired bullet jump, and seat the bullets to that length. Manual COAL's and SAAMI max's don't mean anything for real world rifles.

4) WTH? Drops like bricks past 300? I shoot the 87grn V-max 243win in a pistol a lot more than in a rifle, but in my full speed rifle loads, it's only a 1mil drop from 300 to 450yrds - that's a long ways from what I'd call "dropping like a brick." I'm only dropping 1/2 Mil per 50yrds out at 600yrds. I can still use a mil-dot reticle without dialing at all out to 775yrds (5Mil = the tip of the bottom thick wire). Dialing for range, the 243win is manageable past 1,000yrds, even with the lighter 87grn V-max. Even a moderately skilled shooter with a laser range finder should be able to get out somewhere around 600-700yrds before the gap between a rudimentary ballistic calculator and the real world drags them off of target - we're only talking 3-4 mils of drop out there (200yrd zero). Very manageable.

For the OP, I'll look forward to hearing how 4166 does for you. I've been feeding H4350 to my 243win for a while now, I'm thinking of trying some of these newer powders.
 
Betcha running a 90 gr etip with some of that 4451 at 2.68" would make a heckuva deer round at the ranges you're shooting. ;)
I bet it will too!
Just did a pressure test to see how far up the scale I could go with 4166 and 87 VMAX. Made it all the way to Hornady max listed of 37.5gr for 4064, primers still have a round edge.
Oh and wow what a muzzle flash this close to sunset!
 
I bet it will too!
Just did a pressure test to see how far up the scale I could go with 4166 and 87 VMAX. Made it all the way to Hornady max listed of 37.5gr for 4064, primers still have a round edge.
Oh and wow what a muzzle flash this close to sunset!
Compared to the midweight accuracy charges did the ruger care for any of the higher pressures? And I believe it with the flash I get on my 18"! Candle shoots are always a hoot with the slow powders!!
 
Compared to the midweight accuracy charges did the ruger care for any of the higher pressures? And I believe it with the flash I get on my 18"! Candle shoots are always a hoot with the slow powders!!
I was only watching for pressure that test. I loaded one round at each charge listed and fired each, watching brass for high pressure. I'll load accuracy test tonight and probably shoot that tomorrow.
 
Test as promised! Looks like mid-range is still king for this powder.
Testing 58 VMAX again at 42.1gr 4166.
Testing 87 VMAX again at 35gr 4166.
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Also going to try the 87 out with 4451 when I pick some up.
 

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Test as promised! Looks like mid-range is still king for this powder.
Testing 58 VMAX again at 42.1gr 4166.
Testing 87 VMAX again at 35gr 4166.
View attachment 237335 View attachment 237338
Also going to try the 87 out with 4451 when I pick some up.
Yup yup yup, very nice! I think my 55+4166=42.3? Iirc anyway, I'd have to check again for sure... but it looks good anyway! Looking forward to your results with the 4451 as well!! My 86 gr love it as I said, but they're not something I'll have forever since they were a blem run and I didn't have enough to buy em out;) luckily, Loonwulf sent me his batch too so I'll at least be set for a few years of hides, bears, and hogs, before I haveta swap up to the 90 gr (accubond/coppers) lol!
 
Yup yup yup, very nice! I think my 55+4166=42.3? Iirc anyway, I'd have to check again for sure... but it looks good anyway! Looking forward to your results with the 4451 as well!! My 86 gr love it as I said, but they're not something I'll have forever since they were a blem run and I didn't have enough to buy em out;) luckily, Loonwulf sent me his batch too so I'll at least be set for a few years of hides, bears, and hogs, before I haveta swap up to the 90 gr (accubond/coppers) lol!
The 55s, are they Btips or Sierra?
 
Sweet spot for accuracy with 58gr VMAX & 4166 is going to be between 42.1gr and 42.6gr. Although the POA and POI are close at 43.6gr.
Going to move on to another powder for 87gr VMAX. I think accuracy might be better with something a little slower. I couldn't find 4451 locally so I decided on H414(been wanting to try it anyway). Nosler lists it for the bullet weight range I'm working with. Also picked up some trail boss to play with a small game load.
 

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Horsey,
I remember you saying something about H414 and H380. What kind of experience have you had with them? What bullets were you using?
 
Horsey,
I remember you saying something about H414 and H380. What kind of experience have you had with them? What bullets were you using?
I've used the 85 gameking and the Pro Hunter and the 85 partition and the 85 varminters, I got acceptable accuracy, they meter VERY nicely, but they were too finicky as far as accuracy windows. They were also not tolerant to my extreme temp ranges without redoing load workups for changing seasons. In ALL fairness, I can and do shoot coyotes at -30degrees Fahrenheit and prairie dogs at 110. Deer season alone can produce 60's opening weekend and 15 degree blizzards 4 days later(or vice versa). The pressure differences at all these temps didn't offer any danger signs but they DID open groups considerably. There is a reason stick powders are more popular..... I would say that for general close range hunting, they'd be alright if you're not showing pressure signs, just not up to my standards.
 
Horsey,
I remember you saying something about H414 and H380. What kind of experience have you had with them? What bullets were you using?
I'd also point out that using h414 takes more powder per load on the lightweights, that may be a non issue, but earlier I think you mentioned saving money, under the lil 55 weights that difference comes out to be about 10 rounds per lb less than either of the enduron powders if you're looking at long term cost. (Powder usage should be about the same with 4451 on the 100s)
 
I've used the 85 gameking and the Pro Hunter and the 85 partition and the 85 varminters, I got acceptable accuracy, they meter VERY nicely, but they were too finicky as far as accuracy windows. They were also not tolerant to my extreme temp ranges without redoing load workups for changing seasons. In ALL fairness, I can and do shoot coyotes at -30degrees Fahrenheit and prairie dogs at 110. Deer season alone can produce 60's opening weekend and 15 degree blizzards 4 days later(or vice versa). The pressure differences at all these temps didn't offer any danger signs but they DID open groups considerably. There is a reason stick powders are more popular..... I would say that for general close range hunting, they'd be alright if you're not showing pressure signs, just not up to my standards.
My temps aren't near that wild. I'd say coyote season temperature range would be 90F in September to 45F in February. Deer season would range 65F to 30F. So not too bad. Probably my Max distance would be 600yds. Normally only 250yds or less. I'm going to try both powders out to see what happens.
 
My temps aren't near that wild. I'd say coyote season temperature range would be 90F in September to 45F in February. Deer season would range 65F to 30F. So not too bad. Probably my Max distance would be 600yds. Normally only 250yds or less. I'm going to try both powders out to see what happens.
I look forward to the results, just remember, in the name of safety it's better to work up loads in the summer than in the winter. ;)
 
I'd also point out that using h414 takes more powder per load on the lightweights, that may be a non issue, but earlier I think you mentioned saving money, under the lil 55 weights that difference comes out to be about 10 rounds per lb less than either of the enduron powders if you're looking at long term cost. (Powder usage should be about the same with 4451 on the 100s)
I plan to use 4166 on those, it does a good job. I was looking for 4451 or Hybrid 100V locally, but found neither. I was pleased to see an abundance of 4166 though!
 
I plan to use 4166 on those, it does a good job. I was looking for 4451 or Hybrid 100V locally, but found neither. I was pleased to see an abundance of 4166 though!
Haha! BOTH the enduron powders are rare as unicorn farts around here unless I either order or drive a ways to a cabelas type store. If they don't start picking up some around here, I may grab the imr4831 for my 85-90 weights. I have been wanting to anyway but lack of 4451 MAY dictate otherwise.
 
I look forward to the results, just remember, in the name of safety it's better to work up loads in the summer than in the winter. ;)
That's good advice! I'm glad to have people who care about the safety of others. I look forward to many more years of this experience!
 
Haha! BOTH the enduron powders are rare as unicorn farts around here unless I either order or drive a ways to a cabelas type store. If they don't start picking up some around here, I may grab the imr4831 for my 85-90 weights. I have been wanting to anyway but lack of 4451 MAY dictate otherwise.
I got a buddy that switched to H1000 from imr 4831 for 300WM. He told me if he had some 4831 left he'd give it to me. Great guy, he's the person that got me into reloading.
 
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