8mm Mauser ammo on a belt... ouch!

Status
Not open for further replies.

lsudave

Member
Joined
Feb 10, 2007
Messages
1,042
So, I guess I should have seen this coming; I ordered some of the Yugo 8mm from sgammo. It was a decent price I think, at least compared to what I have found. The couple I've tested (just chambering) seem to fit fine, which is better than the steel Romanian stuff that is hard to close the bolt the first time (if you do it a couple times, it seems to fit better).

Anyway, came on a belt of 250, with some sticky oil on it. Felt like pine tar. I'd never taken rds out before, so I had to experiment to figure out a way. Ended up twisting the link back, while pulling and twisting the rd clockwise with my left thumb and first two fingers.

Didn't really feel anything during the process... but when I was finished, I had pulled the skin off both fingertips. :(
I should have figured out that I was shearing that skin by twisting so hard. Oh well, live and learn!

So the ammo is dirty. It's sticky, like I said it feels like pine tar. Really no corrosion to note. I'm trying to figure out the best way to clean them up.
I wiped a few down with alcohol pads, which seemed to work ok but I was going through 1 per rd. After reading a bit, it seemed that rubbing them with steel wool works ok- I just wrap the round in the wool and spin it. I'm not applying hardly any pressure, so that SHOULDN'T hurt the case- right? It seems to catch the gum, and pull it off.

I dont have a tumbler, I've seen that suggested.

Re the ammo- it's Yugo, PPU (has 'nnu' and '1957' on the case). I've read that some Yugo was blowing cases, but that looked to be '55'.

Anyone have any input on this ammo, maybe a better way to strip off the belt, and/or a good way to clean up the cases? It's going to be shot out of my dad's VZ 24.
 
put it in a coffee can on the dryer for about a week lol. that machine gun ammo is hot. not worth the risk of blowing a case or primer. it will blow the mag well out or the bolt lugs or worst your face.u if u reload u can pull the bullet dump the powder neck size with the decaper pin out and add new powder and seat the bullet back.
 
You might want to try mineral spirits on a steel wool pad. That should clean it off
I have some of that ammo. Mine is heavy ball. I think it is 197 grain. You will feel it when you shoot it. It packs a punch. I can’t shoot it because of shoulder surgery.
 
If you notice any signs of over pressure conditions upon firing the stuff, don't shoot any more. A machine gunner bud of mine "blew the top cover" twice with surplus Yugo 8mm. Old damn ammunition has its risks, once of which, is the occasional over pressure round. If you encounter over pressure conditions, pull the bullets, dump the powder, inspect cases.

If the interior of your cases is corroded such as these, dump the brass. It is too risky to use the stuff.

Uv5MGSv.jpg
 
As far as I can tell, zero rds have external corrosion. Also, the primers look inset, but clean as new. There's 'pine tar', or whatever it is that's sticky... but not even a hint of verdigris anywhere. These are wiping down and looking as clean as my much-newer Golden Tiger 5.56.
That being the case, is there a significant risk (I know there's always SOME) of internal corrosion?

Also, there was a mention of blowing out the bolt. From what I remember, Mausers I thought were extremely strong. Again, how much risk of that scenario, given that the gun is sound? Thanks
 
yes mausers are strong and safe to the user escaping gases in any rifle can be dangerous. i have seen brand new guns blow a case and be destroyed. i have pulled lots off bullets the case outside my look great but sometimes the inside is bad brass gets very brittle when it oxidizes u can crack cases with your hands when its real bad.
 
To de-link, press the bullets, one at a time, into a block of wood
I'll do that next time :thumbup:.
bad brass gets very brittle when it oxidizes u can crack cases with your hands when its real bad.
In going over these, no hint of fragile cases, or of any oxidation. I've shot surplus before, including the stuff I had when I inherited the rifle (I think that was also Yugo). If it gives me reason to pause, I will.

I've seen posts of Yugo headcases blowing, but the brass those were marked 55. This looks to be a different batch.

I've got a enema kit setup for cleaning the barrels already, since I've been shooting almost exclusively surplus from our Mosin. Gotten used to running hot water through the barrels.
 
maybe pull one i should have the big square cut powder. if u have a head space checker its worth doing to. that ammo does seem to shoot close to the sights point of aim tho.
 
Yep pull a couple bullets and examine the case for corrosion and powder for breakdown.

Mauser's are very strong, but old powder can become instable and actually burn faster with higher chamber pressure than it did when new.......and these rounds were considered hot to begin with.

My face and fingers are worth more to me than a few rounds of old ammo. Honestly, I wouldn't shoot any of that stuff as is, but rather reuse the components if the cases are internally sound.

I had a bad experience with old Turk surplus 8mm. Never again.
 
yes mausers are strong and safe to the user escaping gases in any rifle can be dangerous. i have seen brand new guns blow a case and be destroyed. i have pulled lots off bullets the case outside my look great but sometimes the inside is bad brass gets very brittle when it oxidizes u can crack cases with your hands when its real bad.

Yes, Mausers are strong and safe, one of the best actions every designed. However, what was made by man, can be un made by man.

5mbm9Xy.jpg
 
Surplus ammo really can be hit and miss. I’ve had good luck with the various 7.92 surplus ammo I have shot. My most exciting ammo was some 1942 .303 Mk VII with the spaghetti stick cordite powder.

Click!...paaaaause...BANG happened about once every 8-10 shots.

Made me pretty much swear off surplus ammo from then on...

Stay safe!
 
I've never understood the attraction to surplus ammo, I guess I never will. In this case $0.44 ea for corrosive dangerous dirty FMJ ammo that requires user labor to make it ready to use. While new non corrosive soft points can be had for $0.75.

I would try mineral spirits on a cloth rag to get the dried oil off.
 
I've never understood the attraction to surplus ammo, I guess I never will. In this case $0.44 ea for corrosive dangerous dirty FMJ ammo that requires user labor to make it ready to use. While new non corrosive soft points can be had for $0.75.

I would try mineral spirits on a cloth rag to get the dried oil off.
ya u can find ppu 8 mauser for 16.00 a box cheaper if in bulk soft point or fmj. and you can reload it or sell the brass to buy more ammo. there is cheaper new ammo out there to.
 
GB is correct on the de-linking procedure.

Not familiar with 'nnu' marked cases.
FWIW I've shot a lot of 'nny' 57-59 marked 8mm ammo with zero problems concerning either the cases or the 'hard primer' issues that
plague the Yugo 'double star' '53 - '56 marked ammo.

I pull down all the latter ammo for re-loading in formed '06 cases.
Case ruptures with that ammo in a '42 blows the extractor, spring and retainer out of the bolt and out the bottom ejection port every time.
I always found all three pieces with a magnet, but got tired of the process.

JT
 
So, I guess I should have seen this coming; I ordered some of the Yugo 8mm from sgammo. It was a decent price I think, at least compared to what I have found. The couple I've tested (just chambering) seem to fit fine, which is better than the steel Romanian stuff that is hard to close the bolt the first time (if you do it a couple times, it seems to fit better).

Anyway, came on a belt of 250, with some sticky oil on it. Felt like pine tar. I'd never taken rds out before, so I had to experiment to figure out a way. Ended up twisting the link back, while pulling and twisting the rd clockwise with my left thumb and first two fingers.

Didn't really feel anything during the process... but when I was finished, I had pulled the skin off both fingertips. :(
I should have figured out that I was shearing that skin by twisting so hard. Oh well, live and learn!

So the ammo is dirty. It's sticky, like I said it feels like pine tar. Really no corrosion to note. I'm trying to figure out the best way to clean them up.
I wiped a few down with alcohol pads, which seemed to work ok but I was going through 1 per rd. After reading a bit, it seemed that rubbing them with steel wool works ok- I just wrap the round in the wool and spin it. I'm not applying hardly any pressure, so that SHOULDN'T hurt the case- right? It seems to catch the gum, and pull it off.

I dont have a tumbler, I've seen that suggested.

Re the ammo- it's Yugo, PPU (has 'nnu' and '1957' on the case). I've read that some Yugo was blowing cases, but that looked to be '55'.

Anyone have any input on this ammo, maybe a better way to strip off the belt, and/or a good way to clean up the cases? It's going to be shot out of my dad's VZ 24.

It's my understanding that machine gun ammo of that era, even though it is the same caliber was of a higher pressure to be shot out of stellite barrels and receivers. A lot of this was loaded for anti aircraft, and aircraft to aircraft guns ony. If this is true, I would not shoot them through standard guns.
 
Some further reading.

https://www.thehighroad.org/index.php?threads/8x57-mauser-max-cup-for-reloading.594648/

German cartridge variants during World War II

K98kclip.jpg
Karabiner 98k stripper clip with brass-cased 7.92×57mm ammunition
German_7.92mm_Ss_198gr_FMJBT.jpg
German 7.92 mm s.S. 12.8 g (198 gr) Full Metal Jacket Boat-Tail round.
World_War_2_German_ammunition.jpg
Steel lacquered cased German s.S. ball ammunition produced in 1941.
World_War_2_German_7.92x57IS_Spitzer_with_core.jpg
Spitzgeschoß mit Kern, yellow bullet, red circular cap groove
The German standard s.S. - schweres Spitzgeschoß ("heavy pointed or spitzer bullet") ball bullet cartridge was originally designed for long range machine gun use and was 35.3 mm (1.39 in) long, boat-tailed, and very well made.[19][23] It was lead filled, had a gilding-metal-plated jacket, and weighed 12.8 grams (197.53 gr). The s.S. Patrone had a muzzle velocity of 760 m/s (2,493 ft/s) and an operating pressure of 320 MPa (46,412 psi). From its 1914 introduction the s.S. Patrone was mainly issued for aerial combat and as of 1918 in the later stages of World War I to infantry machine gunners. The desire for adapting new shorter barreled rifles and introduction of the Karabiner 98k were reasons for changing the standard German service ball rifle cartridge. The 1903 pattern 7.92×57mm Mauser S Patrone produced excessive muzzle flash when fired from arms that did not have a long barrel like the Gewehr 98. It was found that the s.S. Patrone, originally designed for long range machine gun use, produced less muzzle flash out of rifles that had a less long barrel and also provided better accuracy. Because of this the S Patrone was phased out in 1933 and the s.S. Patrone became the standard German service ball cartridge in the 1930s when the German rearmament program started.[24][25] The s.S. ball boat tail projectile was designed for long range use and offered the best aerodynamic efficiency and external ballistic performance of any standard rifle bullet used during World War II, with a G1 ballistic coefficient between 0.593 and 0.557 (ballistic coefficients are somewhat debatable) or a ballistic coefficient of approximately 0.295 (G7). When fired at the typical muzzle velocity of 760 m/s (2,493 ft/s) out of a 600 mm (23.6 in) barrel the s.S. bullet retained supersonic velocity up to and past 1,000 m (1,094 yd) (V1000 ≈ Mach 1.07) under International Standard Atmosphere conditions at sea level (air density ρ = 1.225 kg/m3). It had a maximum range of approximately 4,700 m (5,140 yd)[21] Even by contemporary (2012) standards 1000+ m (1,094+ yards) effective supersonic range is quite remarkable for a standard military rifle round. For recognition the circular groove between cap and brass was green, and it had a yellow colored bullet.

The regular s.S. projectile had the following penetration performance: 85 cm (33 in) of dry pine wood at 100 m (109 yd), 65 cm (26 in) at 400 m (437 yd), 45 cm (18 in) at 800 m (875 yd) and 10 cm (4 in) at 1,800 m (1,969 yd), 10 mm (0.39 in) of iron at 300 m (328 yd), 7 mm (0.28 in) at 550 m (601 yd), 5 mm (0.20 in) of steel at 100 m (109 yd) and 3 mm (0.12 in) at 600 m (656 yd).

During World War II German snipers were issued with purpose-manufactured sniping ammunition, known as the 'effect-firing' s.S. round.[26] The 'effect-firing' s.S. round featured an extra carefully measured propellant charge and seated an sS full-metal-jacketed boat-tail projectile of match-grade build quality, lacking usual features such as a cannelure to further improve the already high G1 ballistic coefficient to approximately 0.595 (G1) or 0.300 (G7).[27] The 'effect-firing' s.S. projectile had a form factor (G7 i) of 0.869, which indicates good aerodynamic efficiency and external ballistic performance for the bullet diameter.[28][29]

Special ammunition included:[20][30][31]

  • S.m.K. - Spitzgeschoß mit Kern ("spitzer with core") — hardened steel cored projectile for use against targets behind thick covers, tanks, or airplanes. Red circular cap groove, yellow bullet, bullet weight 11.85 g (182.9 gr), muzzle velocity 785 m/s (2,575 ft/s), operating pressure 300 MPa (43,511 psi). This ammunition was also produced in a S.m.K.-v high-velocity or "v" ammunition variant that added 100 m/s (328 ft/s) muzzle velocity to the normal S.m.K. variant.[32] There was also a version S.m.K.H. - Spitzgeschoß mit Hartkern ("spitzer with hardcore") which had a tungsten carbide instead of a steel core. Sintered iron and mild steel cores also came into use in this ammunition. German Spitzgeschoss mit Kern armor-piercing bullets were very good, being very stable and accurate at long ranges.[19]
  • S.m.K. L'spur - Spitzgeschoß mit Kern Leuchtspur ("spitzer with core tracer") — red circular groove, black bullet point—German tracer bullets "were the best put out by any country — streamlined and with excellent ballistics".[19] The bullet was basically the same as used in the S.m.K. ammunition but combined with a tracer that burned for 800 to 1,000 m (875 to 1,094 yd). It had a bullet weight of 10.00 g (154.3 gr) and a muzzle velocity of 810 m/s (2,657 ft/s) and an operating pressure of 280 MPa (40,611 psi). This ammunition was also produced in a S.m.K. L'spur-v high-velocity or "v" ammunition variant that added 115 m/s (377 ft/s) muzzle velocity to the normal S.m.K. L'spur variant.[32] These rounds were also available in 'S.m.K. L'spur 100/600' and S.m.K. L'spur-v 100/600 variants for aerial use that burned between 100 and 600 m (109 and 656 yd).
  • S.m.K. Gl'spur - Spitzgeschoß mit Kern Glimmspur ("spitzer with core night tracer" )— red circular groove, black bullet point—German night tracer bullets. The bullet was basically the same as used in the S.m.K. ammunition but combined with a dimmed tracer that was visible from 150 m (164 yd) to 800 to 1,000 m (875 to 1,094 yd) and would not temporarily blind dark adapted eyes in low light conditions. It had a bullet weight of 10.00 g (154.3 gr) and a muzzle velocity of 810 m/s (2,657 ft/s) and an operating pressure of 280 MPa (40,611 psi). This ammunition was also produced in a S.m.K. Gl'spur-v high-velocity or "v" ammunition variant that added 115 m/s (377 ft/s) muzzle velocity to the normal S.m.K. Gl'spur variant.[32] These rounds were also available in S.m.K. Gl'spur 100/600 and S.m.K. Gl'spur-v 100/600 variants for aerial use that burned between 100 and 600 m (109 and 656 yd).
  • P.m.K. - Phosphor mit Kern ("phosphorus with steel core") machine gun ammunition loaded with the 10.15 grams (156.6 gr) P.m.K. bullets that had a muzzle velocity of 830 m/s (2,723 ft/s) and an operating pressure of 280 MPa (40,611 psi). This cartridge can be recognised by the black circular cap groove, yellow bullet. This ammunition was also produced in a P.m.K.-v high-velocity or "v" ammunition variant that added 115 m/s (377 ft/s) muzzle velocity to the normal P.m.K. variant.[32]
 
Shooting old milsurp in your fine, old, "8mm" Mauser ... sometimes, rarely (hopefuly), you pull the trigger and just hear CLICK! ...

UH OH! :what:

Hmmm ... now you're trying to remember what you have read or been told about this situation. I have mostly heard the "Wait 30 seconds before lifting the bolt to recock and then squeeze the trigger a second time".

A dangerous solution because what if that primer decides to GO right when you unlock that bolt. :uhoh:

The safe solution to recocking that bolt for a second try is built into most of the many different makes of bolts.

Look for the grooves milled into the bolt to accomodate a cartridge rim for recocking the bolt. :)

2v2u13EnGxAW38L.jpg
 
  • S.m.K. - Spitzgeschoß mit Kern ("spitzer with core") — hardened steel cored projectile for use against targets behind thick covers, tanks, or airplanes. Red circular cap groove, yellow bullet, bullet weight 11.85 g (182.9 gr), muzzle velocity 785 m/s (2,575 ft/s), operating pressure 300 MPa (43,511 psi). This ammunition was also produced in a S.m.K.-v high-velocity or "v" ammunition variant that added 100 m/s (328 ft/s) muzzle velocity to the normal S.m.K. variant.[32] There was also a version S.m.K.H. - Spitzgeschoß mit Hartkern ("spitzer with hardcore") which had a tungsten carbide instead of a steel core. Sintered iron and mild steel cores also came into use in this ammunition. German Spitzgeschoss mit Kern armor-piercing bullets were very good, being very stable and accurate at long ranges.[19]
  • S.m.K. L'spur - Spitzgeschoß mit Kern Leuchtspur ("spitzer with core tracer") — red circular groove, black bullet point—German tracer bullets "were the best put out by any country — streamlined and with excellent ballistics".[19] The bullet was basically the same as used in the S.m.K. ammunition but combined with a tracer that burned for 800 to 1,000 m (875 to 1,094 yd). It had a bullet weight of 10.00 g (154.3 gr) and a muzzle velocity of 810 m/s (2,657 ft/s) and an operating pressure of 280 MPa (40,611 psi). This ammunition was also produced in a S.m.K. L'spur-v high-velocity or "v" ammunition variant that added 115 m/s (377 ft/s) muzzle velocity to the normal S.m.K. L'spur variant.[32] These rounds were also available in 'S.m.K. L'spur 100/600' and S.m.K. L'spur-v 100/600 variants for aerial use that burned between 100 and 600 m (109 and 656 yd).
  • S.m.K. Gl'spur - Spitzgeschoß mit Kern Glimmspur ("spitzer with core night tracer" )— red circular groove, black bullet point—German night tracer bullets. The bullet was basically the same as used in the S.m.K. ammunition but combined with a dimmed tracer that was visible from 150 m (164 yd) to 800 to 1,000 m (875 to 1,094 yd) and would not temporarily blind dark adapted eyes in low light conditions. It had a bullet weight of 10.00 g (154.3 gr) and a muzzle velocity of 810 m/s (2,657 ft/s) and an operating pressure of 280 MPa (40,611 psi). This ammunition was also produced in a S.m.K. Gl'spur-v high-velocity or "v" ammunition variant that added 115 m/s (377 ft/s) muzzle velocity to the normal S.m.K. Gl'spur variant.[32] These rounds were also available in S.m.K. Gl'spur 100/600 and S.m.K. Gl'spur-v 100/600 variants for aerial use that burned between 100 and 600 m (109 and 656 yd).
  • P.m.K. - Phosphor mit Kern ("phosphorus with steel core") machine gun ammunition loaded with the 10.15 grams (156.6 gr) P.m.K. bullets that had a muzzle velocity of 830 m/s (2,723 ft/s) and an operating pressure of 280 MPa (40,611 psi). This cartridge can be recognised by the black circular cap groove, yellow bullet. This ammunition was also produced in a P.m.K.-v high-velocity or "v" ammunition variant that added 115 m/s (377 ft/s) muzzle velocity to the normal P.m.K. variant.[32]

That data came from Wiki's article: 7.92×57mm Mauser https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/7.92×57mm_Mauser and I think the detail is amazing. I hope it is not wiped out by some editor. Something I want to point out, did anyone notice that all the military pressures are 46,000 psia or less? The WW1 stuff was 43,000 psia or less. That includes the machine gun ammunition. Machine gun ammunition is not running at 65,000 psia or whatever commercial equivalent is now. I recently got on my soap box about so called 9mm "machine gun ammunition" and made the claim that the high pressure surplus ammunition sold as "machine gun" ammunition, was old, deteriorated, and dangerous, standard ammunition. The machine guns of the era fired the same ammunition as the rifles. There were limited exceptions, but the billions and billions of military rounds used, were of the same pressures, to keep Soldiers from sticking high pressure ammunition in weapons not designed for the stuff.
 
Some of that old milsurp 8mm is HOT. I had some that was in VERY good condition. I actually pulled it out of the soldered shut metal case that it was put in back in the 50s. Bright and shiny, looked brand new. It would swell the brass into the ejector relief cut in the face of the bolt. Upon extraction there was a shiny spot on every case head where the brass was smeared off. And boy did you feel it in your shoulder.


I sold off my big stash of milsurp 8mm when prices got stupid high. I think I paid .07 per round for it and sold it for .50 per. Used the proceeds to buy some new optics and a silencer. :thumbup: I still have a couple hundred rounds of the prvi stuff that was loaded in '93, and I handload the rest. I probably have enough handloads in an ammo can to deer hunt for the rest of my life.
 
That data came from Wiki's article: 7.92×57mm Mauser https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/7.92×57mm_Mauser and I think the detail is amazing. I hope it is not wiped out by some editor. Something I want to point out, did anyone notice that all the military pressures are 46,000 psia or less? The WW1 stuff was 43,000 psia or less. That includes the machine gun ammunition. Machine gun ammunition is not running at 65,000 psia or whatever commercial equivalent is now. I recently got on my soap box about so called 9mm "machine gun ammunition" and made the claim that the high pressure surplus ammunition sold as "machine gun" ammunition, was old, deteriorated, and dangerous, standard ammunition. The machine guns of the era fired the same ammunition as the rifles. There were limited exceptions, but the billions and billions of military rounds used, were of the same pressures, to keep Soldiers from sticking high pressure ammunition in weapons not designed for the stuff.


Sorry but I think you are mistaken. The low pressure load data that is floating around is in deference to the old mausers with the .318 bore diameter.

WWII ammo, and the stuff loaded by the turks, iranians, serbs... etc... is loaded HOT. I am not claiming it is all dangerous but the milsurp stuff is NOT downloaded to the commercial spec that was typical for american load data and for american commercial ammo for many years.
 
My Speer reloading manual gives a maximum pressure of 50k PSI to achieve 2469 FPS with a 200gr bullet. Similar to what is reported for WWII era ammo. I haven't seen anything to suggest that ammo of that era is loaded to proof load pressures. But it is not downloaded to the 37k PSI range as was standard for the rifles with the bore diameter of .318.
 
Clearly the only answer to delinking ammo is to get a belt fed and shoot it instead. Also, will conveniently empty the brass so you can go straight to tumbling and reloading it.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top