9-year-old arrested for waving toy gun

[Andrew Rothman]

It was colossally poor judgement (on the part of mom) to leave a kid alone outside in public with a toy gun painted to look real.

The reality is this: Thanks to irresponsible adults, little kids sometimes DO end up playing with real, loaded guns.

The cop had EVERY right to ensure his own safety until the kid was disarmed or it was determined that the gun was fake.

It was moderately poor judgement (on the part of the cop) not to simply put the fear of God into the kid and let him loose with a warning. He could have de-escalated the situation once it was determined that there was no danger.

Still, I hereby declare the "fifth rule" of gun safety -- every gun is a real gun, until proven otherwise!

As a parent, I don't mind my kids playing with BLAZE ORANGE toy guns. Toy guns that look real are tradegies waiting to happen. Sorry about the nostalgia, guys, but this is 2003.

 

[RustyHammer]

Ban beauty shops!

 

[Edward429451]

You're right. I don't know what I was thinking. Officer safety is paramount, even above 9 yr old kids. I'll turn in our Airsofts and instruct the kids to not even point a finger at an officer.

I'm a slow starter with this police state stuff, but its not my fault. All those lieing history teachers got me all confused with this nostalgic constitution tripe.

A 9 yr old's demeanor with a toy gun sure can be intimidating. Sorry if I forgot to take that into account, I'll watch out for those tough ones. (where was that cops backup?)

 

[J.J.]

Ok here’s my .02 cents.

Grayhound: I believe he suggested for her to finish her hair appointment when she refused to do that she was then arrested no?


Some say it was a bad decision on the mother’s part. But, who’s to say she was anyway rational. Put yourself in her shoes your son has a gun pointed at him and is being arrested at the age of 9. That would be something VERY hard to be rational about. AND, how can you go and sit calmly to finish getting your hair done when your little child is traumatized by having a gun pointed at him forced to lay on the ground handcuffed and put in the back of a police car for playing.

In Texas the little one wouldn't go to Jail. Instead Strait to Juvenile hall for him. But, honestly I think this is sickening and scary.

I also can think of the times running around my neighborhood with fake guns shooting my neighbors in games of "war." Or shooting my B.B. gun in the backyard etc

 

[Aikibiker]

It wasn't that long ago that I was running around playing guns with my friends. We used those evil realistic guns too. At the time I was living in the worst neighborhood in town two of the people featured on the TV show America's Most Wanted were caught in my neighborhood. Police presence was high.

When the cops came by while we were playing with our toy machine guns they didn't draw down on us, they smiled and waved.

What that officer did was wrong plain and simple. I still think he should be tarred and feathered.

RE ADD: Attention Deficit Disorder is wildly over diagnosed in this country, it has become a catchall diagnosis for any child that doesn't behave like one of the Stepford Wives while in school. I should know, I was misdiagnosed with ADD when I was a kid. I got to try all sorts of mind altering medication THAT I DIDN'T NEED. It wasn't fun at all and is part of the reason I think people that take recreational drugs are idiots.

 

[JohnBT]

"It was colossally poor judgement (on the part of mom) to leave a kid alone outside in public with a toy gun painted to look real."

Thank you for thinking this through. Heck, it was poor judgement to let him have a black gun at all. I know, I know, she was ADD or ADHD too, right?

It (you don't think he pointed it at anybody do you) was called in and it could have been a real gun. Around here a black plastic gun being waved in public might just draw fire. We have plenty of kids with real guns around here.

If the officer had taken the toy gun away from the kid I bet I'd be reading posts on "Officer steals widdle baby's toy."

Or maybe "Officer hassles disabled minority choir boy while eating doughnuts."

Or maybe...oh, you get the idea.

I'm worried about some of y'all and the constant cop bashing.

John...I have cap guns that are 50 years old and By God if I'd been caught waving one of them in the street the police would have been the least of my problems. Yeah, we ran the alleys of Baltimore plays cops and robbers and cowboys and indians, but not the public streets. Note: We never could get even numbers of cowboys and indians because everybody wanted to be an indian.

 

[Brat7748]

Send your letter to the newspaper at

[email protected]

 

[outfieldjack]

What JohnBT said.... quit bashing the cops... Time for a little self-responsability. If it had been a kid with real gun some of y'all would be complaining 'cause it took to long for a cop to get to the scene....

WHAT IF you were walking down the street and a kid pulled out a "real looking" gun on you?!?!?! Would you draw down on him? I would.

Jack

 

[Mastrogiacomo]

These people make me sick. I hope that cop gets fired for aiming a gun at a child's head. Please God -- give that woman a good lawyer that sues the ??? off of that department....

 

[Steve in PA]

The gun looked real. Thats all that matters. Heres a picture showing a "toy" BB gun. Guess no one here would have drawn on anyone waving this around right???

Blame the LEO for acting like it was a real weapon. Makes me laugh after reading stories on these boards about "I almost broke leather last night".

The caption under the picture reads...."Spokane Police Chief Roger Bragdon shows reporters the .177 cal. BB gun that a 15 year old pointed at police in a recent school shooting. The boy was shot and killed."

 

[Standing Wolf]

Well, yeah, but we're not a police state.

 

[Brat7748]

Don't most cop cars have something like "to protect and serve" on their sides? Maybe they should add some fine print like "except Officer safety is paramount". You can't paint all LEO's with the same brush their are many fine ones out there....but...It seems to me many departments are hiring the wrong kind of person. Agressive, shaved head, bulging muscle, I'm bad attitude types.
I know a fellow from high school days who told us he wanted to be a cop because he wanted to drive fast, carry a gun, and chase people...he is now a State trooper.

 

[Mastrogiacomo]

There's no excuse for aiming a gun at a child's head -- he said it was a toy. If this child was deaf, I'm sure he'd already be dead.

 

[Andrew Rothman]

And we call antis knee-jerk?

I can't believe what I'm reading. A lot of people here are excoriating the cop for treating a real-looking gun as if it were real!

You know, nine-year-olds can -- and have -- pulled triggers on real guns.

If someone points a real-looking gun at me, I will treat it as a real threat.

Of course, I would try to retreat (it's good to be a civilian). But a cop can't. He has to deal with the situation.

Also, keep this in mind. THE COP DIDN'T SHOOT! So you are all blasting him for being cautious.

Just remember that gun owners are NOT always right, and cops are NOT always wrong.

 

[Bill Hook]

What happened to the cop ordering the boy to put the gun down first?

A nine year-old may be able to pull the trigger, but I'm not expecting accurate fire from him, such that it would be necessary to shoot him w/o thinking it through first.

 

[outfieldjack]

All of you second-guessing, Monday Morning Quarterbacks make me

Still, none of you said what you would do if you were walking by and a young person pulled a "real looking" gun on you!!!

 

[gunsmith]

this would be funny

on Andy Griffith.
Whats the phone # of that police dept?

 

[Bill Hook]

All of you second-guessing, Monday Morning Quarterbacks make me

Yeah, until some moron with a badge pulls the same bonehead move and threatens your kid, grandkid, etc. with his very real gun held at eye-level to the child.



If these guys can't use better judgment, then they should apply for a desk job.

 

[Steve in PA]

Better judgement?? For what......thinking the gun is real???

Like you'd act any different if faced with the same situation.

Heck, there are people on here who brag about packing a gun, a back up gun, a ka-bar, spot light, etc, etc........just in case ......but hey, they can tell the difference between a toy and a real gun......no problem.

:banghead:

 

[Correia]

I've got no problem with the cop being cautious. It may have looked like a real gun. As for how the kid appeared, when I was nine years old I was 5'5" and had a mustache.

My problem kicks in at the point in time when the kid was arrested AFTER it was discovered that the gun was a toy.

WHY?

What possible purpose could hauling the kid in have? He didn't do anything wrong.

As for getting grilled by Monday morning quarterbacks, that is part of law enforcement. It is called higher standard of care. They have been entrusted with authority, and people are going to watch how they behave, and they are going to second guess it. That is the nature of the job.

 

[gunsmith]

once the dangerous toy

was taken from the kid it should have been all over.
Kids do play with real guns and bad things do happen,
But to arrest the kid is going to far.
What the heck happened to common sense?
At most the kid should have had a stern talking to (and the Mom as well).
Bringing the kid "downtown" is a waste of time and taxpayer $$
I see kids with real looking toys all the time,you have to be kinda anal retentive to make a big deal about it.

 

[BamBam]

Many of you sum this up as "Police nearly murder adorable little kid with ADD."

What about this: "Police get call of person bransidhing a hangun, cops respond and apprehend using standard tecniques for armed suspects, suspect turns out to be nine-years-old, weapon is found to be toy gun modified to look real; mother shows up and refuses to follow officers orders to maintain distance, tries to wrestle suspect from police custody, both mother and son are arrested so that a judge can decide proper dispose"

 

[Bill Hook]

What kind of better judgment?

Like asking the kid to drop it. Like moving bystanders away. Like going in the back door of the beauty parlor and asking if anyone knows the kid (Think about why a small boy would be in front of a beauty parlor.). If not, then come out from behind him and disarm him.

If I were the cop and a kid was playing with what I thought was a gun, and he hadn't killed/wounded anyone yet, and no shots had been heard, then I'd think he had his dad's gun and is just goofing around with what he doesn't realize is a real weapon.

I'm sorry, but there seem to be a lot of brain-dead individuals wearing a badge, which unlike the brain-dead working at McDonald's, can have untoward consequences.

Equivocate on that, why don't you?

 

[Steve in PA]

In an ideal world, a parent would have been called......the "toy" handed back to them.......and kid released to them.......probably to get an a$$ whoopin' from dad when he got home from work.

 

[Steve in PA]

I see........so now we wait while junior is playing with daddies gun until it goes off....or...wait until he pulls the trigger because he wants to shoot it like the guys and kids in the movies before something is done?? :banghead:

Yeah.......lots of brain dead individuals NOT wearing a badge too.