911 Failures - A Resource Thread for pro-RKBA Arguments

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From the August 9, 2007 Dallas Morning News (page 2A), two separate articles giving examples of 911 failures:

Title: 3 Calls to 911 Not Enough to Prevent Death
By: Tanya Eiserer

November 7, 2006: David Lyles is driving by when a small child comes out and says that someone is trying to kill his mother. He pulls his truck over and calls 911. He can clearly be heard on the 911 tape stating that someone is trying to kill the child's mother.The 911 operator doesn't catch this detail (kill v. harm) and downgrades the call in priority. Even at the lower priority, the goal time for police to arrive on scene is eight minutes. Police do not arrive until after a third 911 call from Mr. Lyles. The police arrive to find the boy's 47yd old foster-father strangled to death with a belt. He is still alive when police arrive but dies shortly afterwards.

Title: Workers Still Making Potentially Dangerous Calls
By: Tanya Eiserer

July 31, 2006 - A woman calls to report a man is in diabetic shock and has hit her and is behaving violently. On the 911 tape, she tells the operator "Our lives are at stake right now. I am going to stay on the phone with you until they get here." The operator says she has other calls and cannot stay on the line. She hangs up on the 911 caller and then lies to the units she dispatches and says that the caller hung up on her. All of this is recorded on the tape. (operator is later disciplined)

November 21, 2006 - A man calls 911 and reports that a man has kicked in the door and abducted a woman. The caller explains that the woman is about to be taken away in a car. The 911 operator not only fails to notify police about the kidnapping. She tells the caller that she cannot send help because he did not have the license number of the car. (operator is later fired)

Just a few examples you can use to explain to others why you choose not to rely on 911 when it comes to your personal safety and protection.
 
911 is a great resource but, and this is the about the biggest but there is, the cops, firefighters, ems workers arent parking outside your house waiting for you to call 911. In the time in takes to drive to a call, the caller can be killed.

Our city has a five minute response time for EMS calls. If you don't make in 5 you got some explaining to do. But this is only for EMS and is considered pretty good but industry standards. Imagine what can happen in 5 minutes.

911 is there to triage and send aid to you as fast as humanly possible but its not instant and will never be. You must take care of yourself.
 
Don't forget the Detroit 911 operator who demanded that the woman who called to report that her husband had shot her, put THE HUSBAND on the phone!
 
I see great possibilities for this thread!

In fact, I would like to see a whole new sub-forum titled something like "Debate Resources" for threads like this. Other possible threads that would fit the sub-forum could be on things like: "Statistics That Lie (even more than most)", "Exposing Popular Firearm Misconceptions", "How To Recognize Flawed Logic", "Well-Known Antis Who Have CCWs &/or Guns", etc. The idea would be to have a one-stop spot to find the ammo <G> to argue with.
 
Check out the JPFO's book, "Dial 911 and Die". Its worth the read. They basically have immunity from any responsibility (except for deliberate acts) and you have no recourse.

The cops are note/report takers for the most part and have no responsibility to protect you as an individual.
 
even if the system works with out a flaw (big if) they will still take time to get to you. Min 5 mins if your lucky. YOu have to be able to protect amd help yourself.

Other day a friend of mines kid put his arm through a window very bad cuts. sje put in three calls to 911, no answer on any mom drives to hospital herself. It appears they (911) did eventually call back several hours later by this time kid was out of surgery.
 
I was once waiting in my car parked outside of store my wife was browsing in. My son was asleep in his carseat in the backseat. I saw a man and a woman start arguing about 25 meters away, the woman was getting pretty abusive, but was about half the size of the man. The man seemed to remain calm, so instead of leaving my son alone, I called 911. The call was answered by an automated system and I was put on hold. In fact, I remained on hold for the 5 minutes it took for a private security officer that was patrolling the shopping complex to come and make the couple leave, I never did get to talk to an actual human. This incident happened in Oceanside in Southern California.
 
You know, many police departments make it know what their response times are for 911 calls. A few years ago, Dallas new Chief of Police, unkle, was on TV talking about how much response times had improved and how he expected they would continue to improve (which I don't think they have). The good news was that the priority calls were then averaging less than 10 minutes which was few enough that Dallas was in the top 25 for response times of bigger cities.

Example....
For 911 Priority 1 calls, Rochester Police took more than 14 minutes in 2006.
http://www.rochestercitynewspaper.com/news/blog/POLICE:+East+side+response+times+too+slow+/

Sorry, I know there is a comparison sheet online for US cities, but I can't find it, but you get the idea. At even lightning fast response times of 3-5 minutes, that is still more than enough time to be killed and for the bad guys to be miles away.

We could have lots more officers, one on every block, but that would cost lots more money that nobody wants to pay in taxes and a goodly number of folks would cry out in paranoid fear of there being too many cops.
 
even if the system works with out a flaw (big if) they will still take time to get to you. Min 5 mins if your lucky. YOu have to be able to protect amd help yourself.
As I'm so fond of saying, "911 is a communications system, NOT a matter transporter."
 
You know, many police departments make it know what their response times are for 911 calls. A few years ago, Dallas new Chief of Police, unkle, was on TV talking about how much response times had improved and how he expected they would continue to improve (which I don't think they have). The good news was that the priority calls were then averaging less than 10 minutes which was few enough that Dallas was in the top 25 for response times of bigger cities.
My godsister was stabbed to death by her boyfriend. I don't know if she dialed Chicago 911, but assuming that she did and their response time was ten minutes, I wonder how many times you can stab someone in ten minutes...
 
Raises the same question. Which would you rather have handy, the gun or the phone? (See many of Oleg's images). I used to run with an EMS crew in MD and from the time we got the call we had 5 minutes to leave the station before it was reassigned. If you include the travel time and the time 911 took to get us the call (about 3 to 4 minutes) it could be around 10 to 15 minutes before you could expect an ambulance. It was around the same for the police (except they tended to drive much faster). My point is that in general you are better off having a gun, knowing first aid/CPR/etc, or whatever the skill/tool may be than calling someone else and waiting for the problem to get solved.
 
I always looked at 911 as a recording system. Dial 911, throw the phone on the bed, make sure you speak up so your heard.

Our county just recently got 911. Across the road, the county line, they dont yet have it. We have no local police, and rarely even see a Trooper, but do have volunteer fire/ems.

Either way, your pretty much on your own, possibly with neighbors help. If its an emergency that requires ems, they can catch up or meet me on the road, as I'm not wasting time waiting, the hospital is an hour away. If its a police call, they will most likely be taking another report when they get here, one way or the other.

If people are foolish enough to believe that 911 will save them, oh well, doom on them.

My response to those who want to push the point is this.... I hand them my cell phone, show them my big pocket knife, (the SIG would probably freak them out :D ) tell them to dial 911, and that I'll wait until they are connected so they can tell the operator they are about to be killed. I usually get that "cow looking at a new gate" look, and then they still want to argue. Like I said, doom on them. :)
 
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