922r Case Studies

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Does anyone know of any documented cases of anyone ever being prosecuted for not being in compliance with 922r? I ask because 922r is one of the dumbest things ever and I would be amazed if it is capable of being enforced and, if so, whether there are cases when it has been enforced. I'd also say that most people, even gun enthusiasts, know little or nothing about 922r unless they troll forums like me and others on THR, and could inadvertently be in violation of 922r without knowing it. Like the majority of people on here, I follow the laws to include 922r, but I can't help but scratch my head and question why these laws exist especially when they do nothing towards the betterment of health and safety and are likely never enforced.
 
People who mess aound with AK-47 are very much aware of this. Especially when converting from single to double stack mags.

Given the can and have enforced "constructive possession" its not more BS than that law.
 
It is not illegal to own a rifle with more than 10 imported parts. 922 (r) is about manufacturing and importing.
Now, it's been said that any time you put an imported magazine in your AK, you could be bumping the parts count over 10 and be in violation.
Enforcement usually has to do with the commercial manufacturers, importers, and as tack-on charges when busting gang members and drug dealers.
 
Even then, there aren't many examples (I've tried before and not found any)

Still stupid to knowingly violate a law, though.
 
Its more of a list of requirements for manufacturers. Technically it applies to end users but its has never actually been implemented as such. The ATF will tell you its illegal to build a rifle/shotgun with over the required amount of foreign parts but they arent going out of their way to find people who have done that. Its the least of their worries. People lose track of how understaffed and underfunded that agency is.
 
giggitygiggity said:
Does anyone know of any documented cases of anyone ever being prosecuted for not being in compliance with 922r?...
We'd expect to see very few if any. As yugorpk noted:
yugorpk said:
Its more of a list of requirements for manufacturers....
Manufactures (and importers) licensed by the ATF are likely (as are others engaged in heavily regulated businesses) to carefully study the law and do whatever is necessary to comply. Persons in a business make their money conducting their business, not by fighting prosecutions, and therefore try to avoid the latter. I made a lot of my money helping businesses engaged in heavily regulated activities avoid wasting time and money needlessly fighting with regulators.

giggitygiggity said:
....922r is one of the dumbest things ever...
Why should anyone care what you think in that regard? Your opinion as to the wisdom of the law is entirely irrelevant.

giggitygiggity said:
...I can't help but scratch my head and question why these laws exist especially...
Scratch your head all you like. It won't change anything.
 
Most courts will look at intent and purpose of the law. The intent of the law was to prevent people like Keng's Firearms and Century from importing Mak-90s and then outfitting them as pre-89 AKs. There was no domestic manufacture of AK parts in the late 80s and early 90s. You were stuck with a thumbhole stock. Fast forward to today, there's domestic manufacture of a myriad of parts. 922(r) is largely a late 80s relic.

If a court honestly reviewed the law, they would be hard pressed to call it anything but stupid. Think about it. Parts are made in the US, but do the raw materials (metals) come from the US? I'd bet most raw metal comes from foreign sources, goes to American distributors, then gets used by manufacturing companies that stamp "MADE IN USA" on it.

Moreover, it does nothing for public safety.
 
Prince Yamato said:
...The intent of the law was to prevent people like Keng's Firearms and Century from importing Mak-90s and then outfitting them as pre-89 AKs....
Do you have any documentation to support that? It would be interesting have some evidence from records of the debates/discussions of the law in Congress or committee, or public statements by the sponsors of the law. But conjecture without evidence is not a good foundation for productive discussion.

Prince Yamato said:
....If a court honestly reviewed the law, they would be hard pressed to call it anything but stupid....
Except courts don't do that.
 
On the surface 922r looks like a gun control measure. In a way it is but what it really is is a protectionist trade control measure. Remember that the US gun manufacturers were getting hammered by cheap imports in the 80's. Bill Ruger, who's mini 14 was getting the beat down by the SKS, among others lobbied for Congress to do something to stem the imports coming into the US. What they came up with was a defacto ban on foreign made semi automatic rifles coming into the US. First they had to define what US made meant. Take a list of 20 parts and if the weapon in question has more than 10 of those parts made in a foreign country than it is foreign made. Its basically the same thing they did with the car industry to determine its origin. The difference being it doesnt matter if the gun only has 11 of those 20 parts to begin with and you only change one part. Then it is US made. I suppose one could design a gun that only uses 9 of those parts off the master list of 20 and it wouldnt matter if it was made in Botswana it would still be considered US made and would fly by 922r.

It wasnt until later on that importers and enterprising individuals starting making enough parts for those mag fed semi autos that had been previously banned to get under that 10 part threshold and were made available for sale again and several more years for those guns to go mainstream. It was never about going after the end user.
 
yugorpk said:
On the surface 922r looks like a gun control measure. In a way it is but what it really is is a protectionist trade control measure. Remember that the US gun manufacturers were getting hammered by cheap imports in the 80's. Bill Ruger, who's mini 14 was getting the beat down by the SKS, among others lobbied for Congress to do something to stem the imports coming into the US....

More unsupported conjecture. Let's see documentation. Let's see evidence.
 
On the surface 922r looks like a gun control measure. In a way it is but what it really is is a protectionist trade control measure. Remember that the US gun manufacturers were getting hammered by cheap imports in the 80's.

As a side effect, the legislation may have been somewhat protectionist against very specific items, but, no, the statement above is incorrect. As someone who was present during House committee and floor debates, there was no such protectionist debate at the time.

In fact, it was the Gun Control Act of 1968 that created what is known as the "sporting purposes" standard for imported firearms, saying that they must "be generally recognized as particularly suitable for or readily adaptable to sporting purposes." This was the basis for the 922(r) restrictions on domestic assembly that emerged decades later [922(r) was part of the Brady Handgun Violence Prevention Act signed into law by President Clinton on November 30, 1993, and went into effect on February 28, 1994]. And the Brady Act was vigorously opposed by the NRA and most of the U.S. firearms industry.

Yes, Ruger was trying to find compromise with Congress on a variety of items well before the Brady Bill. Ruger was much more interested in avoiding product liability claims, and trying to find a middle ground on several other hot button issues. (BTW, Ruger was also advocating computerized instant background checks as early as 1988-89). However, Ruger's efforts were NOT primarily motivated by protectionist goals in anything I had heard or saw in writing.


It wasnt until later on that importers and enterprising individuals starting making enough parts for those mag fed semi autos that had been previously banned to get under that 10 part threshold

Yes, but it was a very short lag between when the law took effect, and the first "compliance parts" came to market. (I picked up a ROMAK AK in 1995 and compliance parts not too long after that).
 
wojownik said:
... As someone who was present during House committee and floor debates, there was no such protectionist debate at the time.

In fact, it was the Gun Control Act of 1968 that created what is known as the "sporting purposes" standard for imported firearms, saying that they must "be generally recognized as particularly suitable for or readily adaptable to sporting purposes." This was the basis for the 922(r) restrictions on domestic assembly that emerged decades later [922(r) was part of the Brady Handgun Violence Prevention Act....
Thank you. You've shown yourself on multiple occasions to be a source of solid and reliable information.
 
Does anyone know of any documented cases of anyone ever being prosecuted for not being in compliance with 922r?

Yes I am aware of at least one case that I found when I researched it a few years ago. I was just search reported decisions and they annotated code. The case I found was an appeals affirmation of a conviction IIRC. I'm not aware of anyone who claims they never find any cases doing any kind of search that would actually account for all district court level criminal cases brought and decided. I want to say it was a case out of IN but I don't recall the name of the top of my head. It involved a dealer and SKS rifles.

It is not illegal to own a rifle with more than 10 imported parts. 922 (r) is about manufacturing and importing.

Well the actual verbage of the the statute is "assemble." Given that magazines are three countable parts I think it is pretty easy to say that if you stick the mag in you are "assembling" as used in that statute.

It doesn't appear the feds are out looking for violations and actively prosecuting cases. That said, there is nothing to stop that from happening and I think its stupid to violate a law when it is generally speaking pretty easy not to.

I routinely see criminal cases and very often say the following: hmm I've never seen that charge before. And I've been doing it for years. Literally just happened today, the judge even commented that in 15 years on the bench they had never seen that charge brought in that jurisdiction. You get sideways of the wrong person and all kinds of things can happen and a motivated prosecuting entity can dig deep into the code book to make life rough. When the Feds in particular want to drop the hammer they really can. I regularly see people get charged under "stupid" laws.

In sum, it has been enforced. It probably isn't done often. Just because you didn't originally assemble the gun probably doesn't mean you are free and clear if you are removing and inserting the mag. For most popular guns 922 (r) applies to its easy enough to comply and it would be unwise IMHO to simply willfully violate the law, no matter how stupid one thinks it is or even how stupid it actually is. I wanted to SBR an UZI pro but the lack of 922 (r) means I'm not going to. I have to much to lose should someone ever decide they want to enforce that law.
 
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