9mm ammo question: Deepest Penetrating?

[mordechaianiliewicz]

9mm NATO

Actually, the NATO surplus load penetrates probably deeper than anything else. Problem of course is that it isn't HP. But, your question is what penetrates the deepest.

 

[KBintheSLC]

Hope this helps you out.

Gunslinger... that was an excellent and highly informative response. Thanks a lot.

One of the members has a bunch of them on a site but I can't find the link right now.

Are you referring to brassfetcher.com ??? That is a great little resource.

The 2-legged threat is something I worry more about than the 4-legged

I can't argue with that...

If she is there as backup,just let her use the load she is already carrying.
Logic being,she is familiar with the load,and point of impact.If you can't take care of business with the 10mm,I doubt the 9mm will make much difference

You make a valid argument... I assume that as long as we are close together and I don't get surprised by an angry, post-natal moose, I could dispatch a charging animal with the 10mm post haste. However, if she goes out of view in the brush to use the "facilities", or if I am not fast enough to respond to an attack and get grounded, I would like her to have the most effective load she can carry. She practices often enough that she can get accustomed to more than one load pretty quickly.

Based on some logical user responses here, I'm thinking that the difference between the 147's and the 158's is negligible in the real world.

 

[Gun Slinger]

Glad you found it helpful.

 

[.357 magnum]

These two are the Best 9mm Penetrators.

Winchester Bonded 147gr +P/Second Choice Federal 147gr +P HST

PS. To All you Guys that [For Some Odd Reason-Because Poster was asking for 9mm Loads ] Posted that .45 does not Penetrate. Go try some Winchester 230gr Bonded LE Ammo As a Defensive Load I will take it over 10mm any time

The Best to All!

Frank

 

[BushyGuy]

PMC 115gr fmj seems to go deeper then the other fmj cuz it has a stronger copper jacket then the other fmj.

 

[gmh1013]

Winchester white box NATO ammo would be your best bet.
I shot a box last month from my Taurus 917 and it has a kick to it.

 

[HippieMagic]

A 180gr FMJ WWB .40S&W will kill a whitetail fine in one shot... I live in WV too and my friend has taken killed a few things with a .40 so I doubt you would have any issue with a 9mm in the woods...

 

[Gun Slinger]

PMC 115gr fmj seems to go deeper then the other fmj cuz it has a stronger copper jacket then the other fmj.

Really?

Seriously?

How is the jacket of the PMC "stronger" than any other commercially available 9mm 115 gr. FMJ?

Is it measurably thicker than all other cmmercially produced 9mm 115 gr. FMJs?

Does it have a higher tensile strength due to some extarordinary property of its jacket alloy or its makeup?

Is it a harder alloy than any other used on other manufacturer's 9mm 115 FMJs?

You have made a rather dubious, and most likely, unsupportable, claim about something that makes no sense whatsoever.

I'd like to see some substantiation regarding the claimed, but yet to be proven, "miraculous properties" of PMC's 9mm 115 FMJs.

Yep, I'm calling "fib" on this one...

 

[Mags]

115 grain FMJ seated to 1.22

 

[KBintheSLC]

I can't believe that this thread got resurrected again... cool.

After extensive testing and sampling of various 9mm penetrators, I have settled on a loading from DoubleTap... 147g brass-jacketed flat-point in +P. It is loaded to over 1100 FPS, making it one of the hottest 147g loadings around. The hard brass jacket and the flat nose will make it dig deep. So far so good for a woods load for the wife. I still have the 10mm G20 on my side.

 

[KBintheSLC]

Winchester Bonded 147gr +P/Second Choice Federal 147gr +P HST

PS. To All you Guys that [For Some Odd Reason-Because Poster was asking for 9mm Loads ] Posted that .45 does not Penetrate. Go try some Winchester 230gr Bonded LE Ammo As a Defensive Load I will take it over 10mm any time

FYI... when talking about deepest penetrating rounds for use in the woods, expanding ammo is out of the question. Hallow points penetrate maybe half as deep as FMJ... in every caliber. And for woods defense loads, you are way off about the 10mm vs 45 acp. Some 10mm FMJ-FP 200 grainers can achieve over 4 feet of penetration in calibrated gelatin. No 45 acp loading can even come close to that. 45's are great for stopping people, not large wild animals. For the woods, penetration is king... even the paltry 9mm will out-penetrate the 45.

 

[wrs840]

For woods it is better to carry fmj ammo. Animals are different then people and there skin and bones are very tough so self defense ammo is not so good. As far as the GR goes take the middle of the road not too light not to heavy. The most important thing is aim. You can be shooting a bear all day long with a 30-06 in the paw or hit it once in the head with a 380.

That's a great post, IMO.

Les

 

[Gun Slinger]

After extensive testing and sampling of various 9mm penetrators, I have settled on a loading from DoubleTap... 147g brass-jacketed flat-point in +P. It is loaded to over 1100 FPS, making it one of the hottest 147g loadings around. The hard brass jacket and the flat nose will make it dig deep. So far so good for a woods load for the wife. I still have the 10mm G20 on my side.

K-

How did the 158 gr FMJs untilmately fare against the 147 gr FMJs and how did you test and evaluate them?

I've fired several 9mm FMJs of various weights into solid pine (I used the same piece to keep things as homogenous as possible) in the past with interesting results. Just wondering what you found in your experience.

 

[Eb1]

When I am in the woods. I carry 125 grain hard cast lead conical. I figure it will give me deep penetration along with some energy transfer.

I know that it is a 9mm pistol, and energy is really low, but a lead bullet with a little meplate sounds better to me than a FMJ.

 

[KBintheSLC]

How did the 158 gr FMJs untilmately fare against the 147 gr FMJs and how did you test and evaluate them?

Slinger,

I used wet phone books as an unofficial test medium. I found that the 158g did not do as well as the 147g +P. I believe that the flat nose on the 147g helped to cut a nice clean hole in the medium, whereas the 158g round nose made less permanent damage as it basically pushed the wet mass out of the way. I believe that velocity played a role as well. The 158g are subsonic, and the extra 11g of weight were not enough to keep up with the hot 147g +P stuff.

The DoubleTap 147g FMJ-FP 9mm +P loading out of a Sig P239 had a penetration depth that was about equal to over 75% of the penetration of the DoubleTap 200g FMJ-FP 10mm Auto loading. That should mean that the 9mm 147g will cut through about 36" of ordinance gelatin... give or take a few inches.

 

[Gun Slinger]

When I am in the woods. I carry 125 grain hard cast lead conical. I figure it will give me deep penetration along with some energy transfer.

I know that it is a 9mm pistol, and energy is really low, but a lead bullet with a little meplate sounds better to me than a FMJ.

Eb-

Not sure that I follow your logic. Can you explain?

The reason that I ask is that if you take a .357 158 gr. FMJ-SWC with a small meplat (BC= 0.131) and a .357 158 FMJ (RN) (BC= 0.173) and fire them both at the same velocity into whatever media you are testing against, the 158 gr. FMJ (RN) will penetrate deeper into the media than will the 158 gr. FMJ-SWC assuming a reasonable degree of homogeneity within the test media.

 

[Gun Slinger]

I used wet phone books as an unofficial test medium. I found that the 158g did not do as well as the 147g +P. I believe that the flat nose on the 147g helped to cut a nice clean hole in the medium, whereas the 158g round nose made less permanent damage as it basically pushed the wet mass out of the way. I believe that velocity played a role as well. The 158g are subsonic, and the extra 11g of weight were not enough to keep up with the hot 147g +P stuff.

The DoubleTap 147g FMJ-FP 9mm +P loading out of a Sig P239 had a penetration depth that was about equal to over 75% of the penetration of the DoubleTap 200g FMJ-FP 10mm Auto loading. That should mean that the 9mm 147g will cut through about 36" of ordinance gelatin... give or take a few inches.

Assuming similar B.C.s between the two bullets (the 158s and the 147 +Ps) and no significant deformation upon impact (even if the flatpoint of the 147s may have increased the drag a little bit), it appears that your results correlate well with what we would expect "mathematically", the 147s benefitting from a 8.87423% "edge" in momentum (p=mv) over the 158s.

(147 gr. x 1100 fps.)/ 225,218.3399 = 0.717969949 in.-sec.

(158 gr. x 940 fps.)/ 225,218.3399 = 0.65944896 in.-sec.


I've gotta get out and run another set of tests with my new chronograph between the muzzle and test media (dry pine) as soon as the weather and my schedule permit.

 

[KBintheSLC]

I've gotta get out and run another set of tests with my new chronograph between the muzzle and test media (dry pine) as soon as the weather and my schedule permit.

You may want to try the same test with a processed wood instead of full-grain cuts. The variations in density from one section of the cut to another might skew the results. Perhaps some clamped cuts of MDF or other particle board might give you a more uniform density for better side-to-side comparisons.

 

[hardluk1]

Deepest penetration??Penetation cab be dangerous too. To deep and bullet goes down range to maybe kill some else. 10 to 12" will do ,you want a bullet to dump all its energy inside the body and the X bullet is a good choise.Some sinny little long term druggy might only be 10" deep throught the body. The X bullets will not shed wieght unlike most will and it will always open to around twices it's diameter. It will do the job as that is what it was designed for years ago. It can also be found in other ammo lines.

 

[BlindJustice]

Reeds Ammo & Research offers

147 gr. Hornady XTP JHP @ 1,090 FPS

The 147s are known for penetration and
the XTP is a tough hunting JHP design. with
contrlled expansion

Randall

 

[BlindJustice]

Reeds Ammo & Research offers

147 gr. Hornady XTP JHP @ 1,090 FPS

The 147s are known for penetration and
the XTP is a tough hunting JHP design. with
contrlled expansion

Randall

 

[BlindJustice]

Reeds Ammo & Research offers

147 gr. Hornady XTP JHP @ 1,090 FPS

The 147s are known for penetration and
the XTP is a tough hunting JHP design. with
contrlled expansion

Randall

 

[harmon rabb]

completely off topic, but if penetration is what counts out in the woods, wouldn't a tokarev be a hafway decent gun to carry?

 

[Gun Slinger]

You may want to try the same test with a processed wood instead of full-grain cuts. The variations in density from one section of the cut to another might skew the results. Perhaps some clamped cuts of MDF or other particle board might give you a more uniform density for better side-to-side comparisons.

K-

This is my plan.

I've decided to go the "natural" route.

I've obtained "center cut" 4x4 that I've had cut into twelve 2' sections that, when bonded together, will give me two large blocks whose longest dimension will provide up to 12" of material to penetrate with a 8"x24" target "face".

I'll determine depth of penetration by using a long, thin probe inserted into the bullet "track" until it contacts the base of the bullet. I plan on firing at least six, perhaps as many as ten, FMJ-RNs of each bullet weight in 9mm (115, 124 and 147) into the test block so that any deviance introduced through the media's natural density variance is largely negated or at least "averaged out".

Haven't had any difficulty in finding the 115 and 124 FMJ-RNs, but the 147 FMJ-RNs are proving a bit more difficult to locate. When I finally acquire all of the test materials, then I'll run the test. The 147 FMJ-RNs are what is holding me up right now.

 

[stressed]

completely off topic, but if penetration is what counts out in the woods, wouldn't a tokarev be a hafway decent gun to carry?

OK.. what do you think is going to penetrate further?

A 85 grain .30 FMJ at 1500 fps, or a 147 grain .355 at 1100 FPS?