9mm Bullet Seating on Lee 4-HoleTurret Press

[1SOW]

I'm a few thousand 9mm rounds into my Lee Turret Press/with 4 carbide dies. Everything works pretty much as expected EXCEPT the bullet seating die.

Is it expected/normal to have up to .01" OAL variation with a good consistent stroke?
1/100" has a noticeable effect on a 9mm light load at a 135pf.

Example: Loading PD 124gr fmj to 1.130 oal, I adjust the seating die to get 1.130 and it works fine for anywhere from 5 to 12+ rounds, then I start getting 1.126 for the next 5-?? rounds. I readjust the seating die to get 1.13 again; and it works for some number of rounds, then maybe changes to 1.136" for another group of rounds. If I don't readjust the die, it eventually changes (in batches) from one extreme to the other All my measurements are taken after the bullet seating die and before the full length sizing die--which incidently sometimes lengthens the OAL just slightly (.0005).

When it jumps to 1.136, I can pull much firmer on the handle and still only bring it back to maybe 1.134. When it changes to 1.126, I pull until the handle just touches bottom and it's still seating too deep at 1.28/9.

This inconsistency means I measure virtually every round and it takes 'forever' to load 100-200 rounds..

I've carefully read and followed all the die instructions (several times) and, the press is clean, carefully lubed, tightened to specs etc. My rounds are clean and consistent, both with feel and initial chrono work.

I do notice the turret flexes UP slightly when seating the bullet, but I assume this is consistent for every bullet.

Am I asking too much of this press to be accurate within a few thousandths seating depth?

 

[D. Manley]

Seating die snugged down tight with the lock ring?

 

[ants]

I don't think a range of 1.260 to 1.360 is a big deal for mid-range loads in 9mm with bulk bullets.

Don't fool yourself about 0.001" precision with bulk bullets:
Those PD bullets aren't like super match quality rifle bullets, where the nose profile of each bullet is absolutely perfect. Bulk pistol fmj are cranked out by the thousands and thousands from dozens of different dies at one time, using jackets also cranked out by the thousands. So the nose itself is a little shorter on one, and a little longer on the next. The seating die contacts the shoulder of the bullet, not the nose where your caliper rests. The bullets are probably seated perfectly, but the tip of the nose varies. And that's what you're measuring.

 

[1SOW]

D. Manley: Yes --a little beyond the finger tight Lee suggests.

 

[editingfx]

I typically get +- .005, but then again, maybe that's the boolit, as ants sez.

 

[1SOW]

ants: That may be the answer, but when I loaded 1000 Winchester 124 fmjs (also bulk), I ran into the same problem with about the same variation.

The fact that the changes seem to happen in bunches also bothered me.

I really just wondered if this was the best consistency I could expect, or if I overlooked something on the set-up/tuning of the press.

The PDs ogive is different than WC and the bullet is a little blunter & shorter.
I did sample PD bullet lengths in groups and found the PDs more consistent than Winchester 124 fmjs.

I know that doesn't affect my problem, but it encouraged me about PDs QC.

 

[1SOW]

oops---repeat

 

[Walkalong]

If those noses are pretty consistent like you say, then .010 varience is too much. Be sure to measure the ogive where your seater plug hits on the bullet. A varience of .005 or less should be possible with decent bullets. That said, do they shoot well? If so it's not that big a deal for plinking ammo.


You may be able to mod the plug to fit the bullet better as well. That may help.

 

[The Bushmaster]

1SOW...Remove the "O" ring from the locking nut and snug the die down and try again. My 9mmX19 Lee seating die usually stays within +/-.002 of set AOL.

 

[editingfx]

BTW, the +/- .005 I mentioned is pretty much max deviation. I'd agree w/ Bushmaster that .002 or so is the norm.

 

[1858rem]

I'm a few thousand 9mm rounds into my Lee Turret Press

how many thousands were lead bullets with a sticky lube, if any? i had a few problems like this before, the stuff like lee liquid alox would build up in my seater die and change OAL, also, sometimes it was sticky enough to pull the bullits out of the case if i had to check something before i fully depressed the lever. check inside the seater die for residue, although i think you said the dies were clean

the press is clean

....nope you didnt i guess i read wrong......



i also had a problem getting the OAL to stay, turned out that when i took apart the die to try and clean the lee gunk out i did not actually screw the adjuster all the way in, but the cone that contacts the bullets was still stuck in place by some unreached lube so it seemed like i had set the OAL right, but sometimes the sticky lube would make it seat low or higher than i "set" it for. what i ended up doing is loading one of each style bullet i would use in the die, set that single to the proer length, crimp it, then do the other few types of bullets id use, and set them aside as starting points....... then when i decided to load one, i would bottom out the seating die, put the bullet in the shellholder and slowly bring the press arm down to just touch the top of the bullet, then slowley back out the seater die untill the press bottomed out under full pressure i intended to use when loading, then i would tighten the die adjuster down another 1/4-1/2 turn to remove any play.




you need to keep the dies as well as the press clean though.

 

[D. Manley]

1SOW...Remove the "O" ring from the locking nut and snug the die down and try again. My 9mmX19 Lee seating die usually stays within +/-.002 of set AOL.

I left the O-Rings on (probably shoulda' yanked 'em) but I definitely put a wrench-snugging on 'em. I have to disagree with Lee's instructions about the "finger-tight" thing...I see nothing good that can come from it. I seldom use my turret for loading any more but when I did, I got pretty consistent OAL.

 

[Walkalong]

I hate the Lee rings for taking in and out of presses, but if you are going to torque them down good to remove any play and leave them in a turret or an LNL bushing, they work fine.

 

[jfh]

I no longer load 9mm (don't own any more 9s)--but all my calibers (38, 357, 10mm, 45ACP) generally vary only +/- .002, maybe .0025.

When they vary more, it is typically caused by lube buildup in the seater. As Walkalong just said, be sure the (Lee) rings are torqued down good to remove the play.

I do have one bullet for which I should consider a customized seater--it's a 135-gr. LRN sized for 38 Special--you know, "the 38 Super Bullet." Other than that, I don't know of any seater / bullet profile problems--only lube issues.

Jim H.

 

[Walkalong]

don't own any more 9s

Say it ain't so jfh. Any reason why? (I never owned one for years) AC

 

[The Bushmaster]

Doesn't own a "Wonder nine"?? Sacrilege!!!

 

[jfh]

About not owning 9s:

a number of reasons, mostly having to do with blowing up my Glock 20, and since my 9s were Glocks (an HP fits my hand the way many say Glocks fits theirs--i.e., like a brick)--and I no longer liked shooting Glocks--so they all went slowly. The 17L went when I fell in love with 1911s, and the 19 went when I carried a SP101 (SOB, bobbed hammer, early 90s).

I did have a wonder9 early on--a 5906. I even mated it with a Camp Carbine 9. Then I realized I didn't think a 9 carbine was worth it unless I loaded rounds for it with Dean Grinnel's recipes--which I really didn't want to run in my 5906...

But, mostly, I found the cartridge too-damn-irritating small (physically) to enjoy reloading it. Besides, I was enamored with .45ACPs and 10mm, and 9s were everywhere, and the .40 Short and Weak had just been out--and I just moved on.

I will admit to mulling over a Kahr PM9 or a K-tel PF9, however, at least for carry, in the last two years or so.

Jim H.

 

[Walkalong]

I have come to enjoy the lessor recoil and expense of the 9MM lately......Free brass etc.

I love the .38 Super, but you pretty much have to buy brass for it. I have scrounged around 500 range brass for .38 Super, but closer to 20K of 9MM.

 

[lgbloader]

when I fell in love with 1911s

I know this love affair well.

LGB

 

[marvtexn]

Be sure your primers are well seated.

 

[1SOW]

Thanks for the suggestions. I'll definitely try them.
This press is dedicated to 9mm and competition light loads. I will try tightening the die "firmly & cleaning the die again.

Thanks 1858rem: I'll double check.

My primers are seated well and below case level.

I've only loaded jacketed rounds--no boolits.

They are accurate and fast shooting. (When I don't screw up) They should be, I'm reseating all over 2 or .003 off. I'm really getting very good with the inertial bullet puller. I can tap from 1.26 to 1.31 and run it through the FLD again pretty quick.

I use alchohol diluted Lee case lube. It's a VERY light sprayed-on coat. I believe it's a wax base lube and was hoping that diluting it with alchohol would minimize build-up.

jfh: It's not patriotic to quit shooting 9mm all purpose, lighter recoil, long or short range, super-duper accurate, RELATIVELY CHEAP cartridges!
Oops patriotic is maybe the wrong word considering where the cartridge came from.

 

[1SOW]

I just thoroughly cleaned the BS die and reinstalled it with a very 'tight' lock nut. The die 'looked' clean, I hit it with powder blast and cotton swabbed it. The swabs were a little gray but no gunk.

I did some tests on some slightly too long cartridges and it repeated to 1.13 on the button. I even tried firmer and softer pulls and it still repeated. I know it wouldn't have repeated like that before I cinched the lock nut down.

Tomorrow I'll try to reload a hundred or so. I'm optimistic.

 

[D. Manley]

I just thoroughly cleaned the BS die and reinstalled it with a very 'tight' lock nut. The die 'looked' clean, I hit it with powder blast and cotton swabbed it. The swabs were a little gray but no gunk.

I did some tests on some slightly too long cartridges and it repeated to 1.13 on the button. I even tried firmer and softer pulls and it still repeated. I know it wouldn't have repeated like that before I cinched the lock nut down.

Tomorrow I'll try to reload a hundred or so. I'm optimistic.

Can't hurt anything and is likely to help consistency. As I said above, I'm not a fan of Lee's O-Ring, finger-tight, philosphy. On the positive side, the turrets are cheap enough I can't see any reason to have to be changing out dies re-using the same turret anyway. Frankly, if the spacing were not so tight between the dies I personally would prefer the Hornady lock-ring style but that said, the Lee version works OK snugged down.

 

[1SOW]

Uh oh. I guess I was too optimistic.

I reloaded 100 rds today and still had oal variations over .006 total.

That is BETTER than what I was getting but still drives me to measure every round.

The variations now are most often going too short. With todays practice I could use a very light stroke to prevent the short rds from going below 1.128, and then restroke the too long rounds 2-3 times and get down to 1.13. .
It took most of two hours to load 100. :banghead:

Maybe it IS the @#$^^ bullets. I got some Montana Gold 124 fmjs today, I'll try them out.

Thanks to all for good suggestions.