9mm carbine penetration - 115 FMJ vs 124 FMJ vs 147 FMJ

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stressed

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In a 9mm carbine with 16" barrel, what FMJ round would penetrate the furthest in ballistic gelatin? 115, 124 or 147? I am guessing 124.

Also, overpressure ammunition (+P, +P+ etc) penetrates less with Hollow Points then standard due to the faster FPS, however overpressure (+P, +P+) FMJ should penetrate further then standard FMJ ball.

I don't have much experience with gel, so I'm asking the guys who have done plenty of testing what they would think. I know out of a pistol 147 doesn't go as far as a 124, but the carbine's barrel can accelerate that, along with the help of a hot FMJ load.
 
Should be the 147, greater sectional density. I've never seen gel shots of FMJs though, since testing HPs is the usual reason.

Big and slow is a proven penetration formula, 45.70, .44 mag hard cast, shotgun slugs, etc.

Edit: if you handload, a slow powder with the heaviest bullet you can find (probably 147g, I haven't seen heavier bullets as components, but there is 158g subsonic loaded ammo) would be best. The 16" barrel will give the slow powder plenty of time to burn for best acceleration.
 
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stressed said:
In a 9mm carbine with 16" barrel, what FMJ round would penetrate the furthest in ballistic gelatin? 115, 124 or 147? I am guessing 124.

Also, overpressure ammunition (+P, +P+ etc) penetrates less with Hollow Points then standard due to the faster FPS, however overpressure (+P, +P+) FMJ should penetrate further then standard FMJ ball.

I don't have much experience with gel, so I'm asking the guys who have done plenty of testing what they would think. I know out of a pistol 147 doesn't go as far as a 124, but the carbine's barrel can accelerate that, along with the help of a hot FMJ load.
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How do you know this?
 
tn9outdoors did a test on youtube with a Glock 19 and standard pressure FMJ in ballistic media/gel. The 124 out penetrated the 147. I can't remember thee exact measurements, he probably still has it on youtube.
 
Never done any penetration tests but I have a custom blue dot load for my sub2000 that will get a 124gr lead bullet pushing 1700fps with pressure barely pushing +P levels.

On the same note I have a 90gr bullet going 2050fps which is pretty explosive but wouldn't count on penetration.
 
I use the Ranger 147 JHP for my carry gun. I specifically choose it because the test show it doesn't over penetrate, expands well, and hits hard. The 124 +P JHP penetrated more
 
MrWesson said:
Never done any penetration tests but I have a custom blue dot load for my sub2000 that will get a 124gr lead bullet pushing 1700fps with pressure barely pushing +P levels.

On the same note I have a 90gr bullet going 2050fps which is pretty explosive but wouldn't count on penetration.
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wait, what? You just blew my mind.
 
Thats nearly 800 ft lbs. Are you using a slow burning rifle powder? Im sure slight overpressure would surpass the 800 ft lbs mark.

And on that 80 grain load, what do you think the penetration would be if that was an 80 grain FMJ ball?
 
Rifle powder?!? I don't think that's going to work in those tiny cases. The velocity would be pathetic. The fastest burning rifle powders, like IMR4227 or Accurate 1680 would let you put about 8 grains in there. A .357 magnum uses TWICE that much 4227. Handloads.com shows 10.8 grains of 4227 for a 125 grain bullet in a .38 special at only about 900 fps! Pressure from a compressed load in 9mm would be higher, but to get a lot of velocity from a long barrel, you have to have a lot of gas (case volume times peak pressure) to fill that bore volume. Bottle-necked rifle cartridges have a lot of case volume per bore volume, magnum revolver cartridges have less, but auto pistol cartridges have WAY less. Even with a slow-burning *pistol* powder, the bullet doesn't move very far before the moment of peak pressure, so case volume is important.

A 9mm carbine looks more like a shotgun than a rifle, if you think about it in terms of the case volume for the powder vs. the volume of the bore, so shotgun powders are likely to be more suitable. There's a physical reason shotgun powders like Blue Dot and Longshot are used for heavy loads in auto pistol cartridges, and rifle powders are not.
 
Get that chronograph out of direct sunlight on the sensors.

Don
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Duplicated many times.

Blue dot in 9mm carbines is an amazing powder. Alot of load info out there to duplicate my load but it's for real.
 
OK, so shotgun powder is used to get use of the longer barrel. Understood.

I don't reload so I'm learning. I will eventually.
 
Blue Dot is an excellent powder for high velocity loads in a 9x19 as well as the 40. I was scared off using it after Alliant warned about pressure issues in 357 Mag 125 loads and any 41 Mag loads.I switched over to Power Pistol and never looked back.:evil:
 
My understanding is that most 9mm carbines are blowback operated so +P and +P+ loads should not be used. They will extract while still under high pressure, which is bad :(
 
I know the hipoint 9mm carbine and the Keltec sub 2000 are both +P rated(not +P+).

I have about 5000 rounds through my sub 2000 mostly lead and some loaded a bit on the hot side without any problems.
 
Lj1941 said:
Blue Dot is an excellent powder for high velocity loads in a 9x19 as well as the 40. I was scared off using it after Alliant warned about pressure issues in 357 Mag 125 loads and any 41 Mag loads.I switched over to Power Pistol and never looked back.:evil:
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Interesting. So in theory, blue dot in the 9x23 WIN cartridge would push a 125gr pill well over 2000fps from a carbine.. Probably around 2200 or so. That's smoking and over 1,300 ft lbs.
 
ssyoumans said:
My understanding is that most 9mm carbines are blowback operated so +P and +P+ loads should not be used. They will extract while still under high pressure, which is bad :(
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I wouldn't put too much faith in this. Before rounds were watered down in 1972 standard 9mm was equivalent to todays "+P"

Also, all the military blowback military SMG's use 9mm NATO, which is basically +P or +P+ depending on loading. Russian 7N21/7N31 are most defiantly +P+ and have blowback SMG's using it.
 
I would bet a 147 grn has the most potential though the flat front end probably increases drag. If you could find a pointed 147 grn it should out penetrate the lighter ones. However that flat from probably leads to a large wound channel due to the from edge cutting flesh rather than letting it slip around.
 
Before rounds were watered down in 1972 standard 9mm was equivalent to todays "+P"

Also, all the military blowback military SMG's use 9mm NATO, which is basically +P or +P+ depending on loading. Russian 7N21/7N31 are most defiantly +P+ and have blowback SMG's using it.
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While Pressure standards from the '70's have nothing to do with the capabilities of a Beretta CX4 made today, but luckily, blowbacks typically have oversized bolts to assist in reliability, and reduce ejection violence ;). Also of note, that the 16" barrels we're stupidly required to have in the States increase the duration of pressure applied to the bolt, requiring a larger mass than would be otherwise required for the ammunition being fired.

TCB
 
Interesting. So in theory, blue dot in the 9x23 WIN cartridge would push a 125gr pill well over 2000fps from a carbine.. Probably around 2200 or so. That's smoking and over 1,300 ft lbs.
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It would be an interesting test.

I would bet on 124gr right around 2000.. 2200 is pushing it.

Blue dot in a 9mm carbine can get you close to a .30 carbine M1 velocity and push close to 800-900ft lbs.

I can get a 124gr going about 1650 in a 9mm carbine if that info helps.
 
MrWesson said:
It would be an interesting test.

I would bet on 124gr right around 2000.. 2200 is pushing it.

Blue dot in a 9mm carbine can get you close to a .30 carbine M1 velocity and push close to 800-900ft lbs.

I can get a 124gr going about 1650 in a 9mm carbine if that info helps.
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Thanks for the info, and barnbwt; you sir are correct.

Wesson,

Why is it the standard loading for 9x23 a 125gr bullet opposed to the 9mm's 124gr? Don't understand what's benefited from an extra grain. Using .357 magnum bullets most likely, designed to expand at faster velocities, is what I am thinking.

So it looks like a hot 147gr ball is going to be the best penetrator from all the other rounds. I shall have to align some tests.

I occasionally have access to diseased and sick livestock that cannot be consumed, and I would think would make great real world test for flesh and bone penetration opposed to gel. Just have to see if there is enough support to try it. Obviously the animal would be humanly culled, then testing could proceed immediately after.
 
Ok, here is something else to think about from this trend. Out of a handgun and carbine, which would penetrate more? 147gr FMJ or 158gr FMJ?
 
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