9mm Makarov stopping power

[alex4922]

As a real cheap son of a gun I have always loved C&R firearms. The history of battles in which the weapons were used really makes them come alive in a way that new weapons never could. Anyway, I have several pistols in the Makarov caliber and regularly carry concealed. I try to use ammo that has been given good reviews but I have not seen any reports of self defense shootings with this caliber. Any THR members out there know of any such reports?

Thanks, Alex

 

[SharpsDressedMan]

Find documented shootings by .380 firearms with similar style ammo that you use, and then figure you have about 10% more effective knockdown. The 9mm Mak is like a .380 on mild steroids. And don't forget: when using calibers that are not optimum for defense, you don't have to shoot just once. Do double taps, or as many shots necessary to STOP the assault.

 

[harmon rabb]

I'm pretty sure the soviets killed a lot of people dead with 9mm mak. When I carry any of my 9mm mak guns, I keep it really simple, and just carry FMJ. Plain old crap steel cased FMJ 9mm mak -- that's the actual proven round, proven in the soviet union for many years.

 

[Telekinesis]

I'm pretty sure the soviets killed a lot of people dead with 9mm mak ... proven in the soviet union for many years.

It doesn't count when the dissidents are kneeling, blindfolded, and presenting a good target

That said, the 9x18 is a little bit stronger than the .380, but still under the 9x19 power levels. FWIW the Russians are switching to 9x19 for increased penetration and terminal performance. That said, I would expect a 9x18 to perform similarly to a 9x17/.380 in a real world fight.

And harmon rabb, unless you're carrying actual surplus 9x18, you're not using the "proven" round I'd still want to do a good reliability test with that ammo before carrying it.

 

[06]

The first three rounds are HPs but the rest are "ball". Spare mag has ball also. The Mak is my everyday work gun as I don't care if it gets scratched/dirty/or even stolen(well that is not really correct). I like the lightness and slimness of the little shooter. I call them the AKs of the pistol world and "mini 45s" because of their slow hard hitting speed.

 

[Shienhausser]

If I shoot someone with a mak they are going down or will be mortally wounded. I have shot MANY rounds through these guns and never feel undergunned. Double-taps are a cinch since the heavy slide and locked barrel make is so low recoil.

 

[Shadow 7D]

Um

First you quest is flawed
Sorry BUT, there is NO SUCH THING AS 'stopping power'

Get that out of you head, there is ONLY
Placement and penetration
http://brassfetcher.com/9x18mmMak.html

Do your part and your gun should do its

 

[PabloJ]

As a real cheap son of a gun I have always loved C&R firearms. The history of battles in which the weapons were used really makes them come alive in a way that new weapons never could. Anyway, I have several pistols in the Makarov caliber and regularly carry concealed. I try to use ammo that has been given good reviews but I have not seen any reports of self defense shootings with this caliber. Any THR members out there know of any such reports?

Thanks, Alex

Favorite weapon of NKVD used to be PPK in 7.65 Browning in the back of the head shooting downward such that the slug would exit skull near bridge of nose or slightly lower. Using this technique limits ammout of blood coming back at the shooter. Now you know how Makarov pistol came into being.
With respect to the 9x18 I used to carry Hornady JHPs is 95gr weight if I recall correctly.

 

[Shadow 7D]

http://www.firearmstactical.com/briefs3.htm#The Myth of Energy Transfer

Pretty good article on the importance of placement and penetration

 

[Cactus Jack Arizona]

Shadow said it best. There's no such thing as stopping power. Shot placement is king. A well placed .22LR shot is better than a .45 to the shoulder any day when being attacked.

Hornady does make a good SD round for the Mak. The Hornady 9x18 Makarov 95gr. XTP HP is what I carry in my Makarov PM when I'm carrying. Hornady has also recently introduced the 95gr. Critical Defense in 9x18 Makarov.

So you have two choices from Hornady and of course, there is Silver Bear. I think Corbon may have something for the Mak but I've not used their products.

Remember, shot placement is king.

 

[snooperman]

The nnew 95 gr ornady Critical Defense round with their FTX bullet..

would be the way to go for my Mak , if it performs as other FTX bullets.

 

[Pict]

I'm in the XTP camp for the 9x18.

 

[Wishoot]

Buffalo Bore is making both a 115 gr. Hard Cast +P and a 95 gr. JHP +P. Both of which may push their ballistics a bit closer a standard 9x19.

I haven't shot either of these rounds from my CZ82, but hope to soon.

 

[amazon shooter]

Someone has seen the light

Finally, someone has debunked the stopping power myth.

It's like talking about "How many Angels can Dance on the Head of a Pin".

Placement & Penetration - ya got that one right!

 

[mgmorden]

Double-taps are a cinch since the heavy slide and locked barrel make is so low recoil.

The Makarov doesn't have a locked barrel. It's a blow-back action - as are almost all the various pistols chambered in 9x18 Mak. Not that I think the recoil is excessive or anything, just making sure we get all the details straight.

 

[antiquus]

I think you have 'locked barrel' and 'locked bolt' conflict. Maks are all blowbacks as you state, but none of them have a 'floating' barrel they are all pressed into the frame.

 

[mgmorden]

I think you have 'locked barrel' and 'locked bolt' conflict. Maks are all blowbacks as you state, but none of them have a 'floating' barrel they are all pressed into the frame.

Yes but typically when a pistol action is described as being locked that refers to the barrel locking up to the slide, not being permanently affixed to the frame. Particularly when referring to something that would result in recoil reduction as a a blowback action with a permanently affixed barrel results in increased recoil, not decreased.

Or more succinctly, in a blowback action there is no lockup. The only thing keeping the slide and barrel together are a recoil spring.

 

[cougar1717]

I have not seen any reports of self defense shootings with this caliber. Any THR members out there know of any such reports?

I doubt you will find many (or any) reports on 9x18 in the US. There are relatively few people who really even know the difference between 9x18 and 9x19 outside the C&R or military surplus realm. Even when Bid Laden was raided, the news agencies reported that he had a 9mm pistol. Anyone who knew military surplus could see that he had a Russian Makarov, but Average Joe just thinks "9mm, I've heard of that." and moves on.

Finding reports where a .380 was used is going to be your best bet. I would also suggest sticking with ball ammo for increased penetration since that is the area where the FBI determined that the .380 is insufficient. FWIW, after reading government specs on various non-ammo items, everything I've encountered is always specified to a level greater than necessary, but the final choice is yours.

 

[rcmodel]

Ballistic Gel tests
9mm MAK
http://www.brassfetcher.com/var9x18mm.html

.380 ACP
http://www.brassfetcher.com/380ACP.html

9mm Luger
http://www.brassfetcher.com/9mm Luger.html

rc

 

[Tallinar]

The pecking order in my mind is:

.380 < 9mm Makarov < .38 special < 9mm Parabellum

 

[Deaf Smith]

I doubt there is any 'proven' 9.2x18 JHPs out there due to not many using the MAK for self defense.

I'd just use a good blunt (truncated cone) Mak FMJ round and aim well.

Good thing is the Mak has the best shaped round nose FMJ of all the ones I've ever seen. Even the non truncated cone are very blunt.

Still, I pack a Glock, not my Maks.

Deaf

 

[alex4922]

Thanks for the info Gents, Yeah the stopping power term was a mistake. I know better but still fall back into old habits too easily. I do carry with a mag of Hornady xtp and the second mag of fmjs. My Polish P64 gets the nod most often carried inside Thunderwear with baggy jeans (the seller claims most men of action, good or bad, don't look at other mens crotch...women, well whatever.)

I had seen a post that Berrys plated bullets had quit producing 9 Mak. This is definitely wrong. I just got a box in from Berrys and they look real pretty and they should work well in my CZ 82. Anyway, thanks again for the info.

Alex

 

[Snowdog]

My Polish P64 gets the nod most often carried inside Thunderwear with baggy jeans

I carry my P64 exclusively in Thunderwear and wear regular-fit size 34 jeans; nothing baggy in the least. I would sincerely doubt even the most observant, firearm-knowledgeable fellow would have the slightest suspicious that it's on me. I am very impressed with the holster/pistol combination.

My only gripe with this arrangement is that the rear of the button on the jeans want to make contact with the slide. I had to place self-adhering felt disks to the rear of the buttons to prevent scratching (which so far has stayed in place through all the washing/drying).

As for the cartridge itself, it is on the mild side. Because of this, I have skipped the idea of expansion and have settled on the incredibly inexpensive 94gr Silver Bear JHP. From all informal testing I've done with this round involving bare Play-Do and wetpack (no denim), there has been zero expansion from either my Cz-82 or P-64. The only expansion I've managed to get was from using plumber's putty as a medium (that will expand/fragment just about anything).
However, it does seem to penetrate like a truncated FMJ and considering the ballistics of this round, that's what I'm looking for.

My P64 is a small pistol, but I suspect it can fit whatever role a 5-shot .38 Special snub-nose fills (especially with its extra 2 rounds). If I feel I might need something more substantial, I step directly up to a M&P40c. Between those to pistols, I feel I can cover most CCW needs.

 

[PabloJ]

With all this talk of Makarov stopping power perhaps it's time to say farewell to Slavianka and get large jug of "Kool Aid"?
Since money is no issue to me and it's shot and fat like 9x18 I was thinking .45GAP you know greetings to Frau-linka.

 

[NMGonzo]

Many unarmed dissidents have been dispatched with such round.

j/k

Should be fine,