9mm +P+ Ammo...What Guns Can Take?

[Confederate]

I'd assume any steel frame gun could take this ammo, but would it need heavier springs? And what about polymer-frame guns? Can they take the hot loads? How about the Sig aluminum frame pistols?

How hot are +P+ 9mm loads pressure-wise?

Thanks!




I suppose these steel-frame Smiths could take +P+ loads,
but how about polymer- and aluminum-framed guns?

 

[AK103K]

SWD M11/9mm's cant

About 2000 rounds of hot Spanish SMG ammo.....



Same gun, 20+ years later on the second upper and charging knob, and who knows how many tens of thousands plus rounds of standard and NATO 9mm later....



If the manufacturer doesnt recommend it and you shoot it all the time, expect some wear and/or parts breakage.

 

[Confederate]

Thanks. I subsequently found a thread on all sorts of +P and +P+ ammo here.

Apparently, it only beats up aluminum frames. Still don't know about polymer.



A Walther P1 cracked frame. Long live steel frames!

 

[AK103K]

There are a number of them, and a few were around here of late I believe. Other than a direct answer from your guns maker yea or nay, or direct experience with a gun, your going to get all sorts of answers.

 

[usp9]

My HK USP Series manual states that the gun is approved for +P and +P+, but also states it will increase wear and tear. I personally avoid +P+ in my guns.

 

[MachIVshooter]

CZ-75/Baby Eagle/Witness, S&W 659/5906, 9mm 1911's.

I have really, honestly tried to blow up my Baby Eagle running 90 grain bullets at 1640 FPS, 115's at 1410 FPS, 124's at 1290 FPS and 147's at 1180 FPS. More than 16,000 rounds later, the only thing that has changed on the Baby is the trigger got much lighter and smoother. The 5906 has taken the punishment just as well.

 

[thatguy123]

Sig 9mm.

 

[MachIVshooter]

Sig 9mm.

Alloy won't take the abuse like a steel gun, period.

 

[thatguy123]

I've shot many many +p+ out of my 226 with zero problems. I haven't even noticed drastic increased wear either vs my other Sigs with standard load 9mm.

 

[The Lone Haranguer]

If you buy a new car and drive it everywhere under full-throttle acceleration, you will wear out engine and drivetrain parts much faster than if you drive more sedately. It is the same with running +P+ ammo in your handguns all the time.

 

[Moonclip]

Ruger allows it IIRC. And the Star 30M is known for strength.

 

[legion3]

Glocks everyday and twice on sunday.

Oh and the Babyeagle all steel says don't use +P or +P+ ???????

http://www.magnumresearch.com/FAQ_babyeagle.asp

Can I shoot +P or +P+ in by Baby Eagle pistol?
No, the pistol is not designed for this type of ammunition.


The info below is dated but

http://www.glockworld.com/articles/9mmhistory.htm


Here is the key sections:

A Smith & Wesson spokesman indicated that S&W was not in favor of using +P+ ammunition, although it was studying the subject. This presents an interesting paradox, for the Illinois State Police, one of the first agencies to ask for +P+ loadings, is a major user of S&W pistols.

Perhaps the most telling response came from Firearms Import & Export Corp. (F.I.E. Corp. is the importer of the TZ‑75 and TZ‑75 M88 pistols). Corporate counsel Patrick M. Squire responded:

"Although these pistols are tested with proof loads in the Italian Proof Bank at Gardone, we do not recommend a steady diet of high pressure ammunition for any firearms. We are strongly against trying to get .45 performance out of the 9mm Luger cartridge, or trying to "magnumize" any of the non‑magnum calibers, as this can push the limits of predictable pressures too close to the boundaries of safety."

Beretta replied: "Beretta is still in the process of evaluating many of the new +P+ loads and cannot advise on their use at this time."

Browning, on the other hand, forwarded a copy of an internal test report in which it fired 5000 rounds of Remington +P+ 9mm ammunition in a Browning Hi Power pistol. "Inspection of the Hi Power system reveled no unnatural wear to the locking surfaces or any other area. Headspace was checked and found to be acceptable." The conclusion: "...the 9mm Hi Power system appears to be durable enough to withstand long‑range [term] shooting of the new ammunition from Remington."

Glock is even more positive and states that its guns are designed for continuous use with NATO ammunition and, therefore, may be used with +P+ because, "This type of ammunition does not exceed maximum NATO specification pressure levels and is totally compatible to be used in Glock pistols."

 

[Moonclip]

I have seen a Glock with a cracked slide though after high round counts as indoor range rentals with commercially reloaded ammo.

 

[legion3]

I can't imagine shooting enough +P+ ammo to do any real harm, 5000 through a BHP is more than I could afford to feed anyone of my guns.

Commercially reloaded ammo? One would hope it has a good QC but who knows.

 

[Confederate]

I used to look at the contact points on a Beretta 92 and think, geesh, this thing should handle many thousands of rounds. Then came the problem with the slide separations. Most cracks occurred after the 10,000-round mark and the slide separations occurred after 30,000 rounds. According to one of the Navy testers I met, the Beretta gave absolutely no warning prior to failure. Even under an electron microscope, no fatigue could be seen; no micro cracks. For that reason, I'd never trust a Beretta with +P+, but then, I wouldn't trust any alloy frame.

I also found FIE's statment: "We are strongly against trying to get .45 performance out of the 9mm Luger cartridge," to be fairly asinine. Depending on the ammo used, a 9mm can easily duke it out with a .45. They've got +P .45s out, too.




Although sometimes true, bigger isn't always better.

 

[Snarlingiron]

I have shot lots and lots of them in my Glock 19 and Glock 26.

Works real good, lasts a long time.

 

[icebones]

take it easy with alloy and alluminum frames, they can handle light snacks of the heavy stuff, but i can tell you, you CAN NOT EVER beat the strength of steel, no matter what your doing,
aluminum VS steel gun frames
aluminum VS iron engine blocks

anybody who has ever used a mill or lathe can tell you the diffrence in machining steel and aluminum.

 

[-v-]

One thing to keep in mind is that there are no specifications for +P+ ammo. Thus the cartridges that they use at the factory to pressure-test the guns are also technically rated as +P+, or cartridges that are pushing a 9mm bullet at 500fps can also be rated +P+ since there's no set limit on it. With that said, I think any gun can fire a limited number of +P+'s safely, but a steady diet will break it down much faster. Also and NATO rated handgun should be able to suck down +P+ and ask for more, since most +P+ ammo replicates 9mm NATO standard fairly closely.

 

[KaceCoyote]

The CZ SP-01 and P-01 are both cleared for NATO 9mm which is supposedly far hotter than SAAMI specs for 9mm. P++

 

[MachIVshooter]

Depending on the ammo used, a 9mm can easily duke it out with a .45. They've got +P .45s out, too.

I've run the 9x19 as hot as one can, and I mean it-magnum primers, fast powders and compressed charges. The most energy I was able to get from the 4.7" poly-rifled Baby Eagle barrel was 544 ft/lbs. And that was with 90 grain pills; as bullet weight increases, powder space is further encroached and velocity/energy drop. Trust me, you'll never be able to get .45 performance from a 9mm. You can safely exceed 600 ft/lbs from a .45 ACP in a steel gun. My carry load in my S&W 4516 is a 240 gr. Sierra JHC at 1060 FPS (599 ft/lbs). And that's a bullet that will penetrate very deeply and hold together, unlike the featherweight .355" pills one must use to break into the 500 ft/lb arena with a 9x19.

 

[usp9]

KaceCoyote,

NATO 9mm which is supposedly far hotter than SAAMI specs for 9mm. P++

I think that is a factual error, but if you have a link to a reference stating such, then I'm willing to learn.

 

[skinewmexico]

You can, but why would you want to?

 

[jocko]

but why

alot of guns will shoot +P+ but why would you want to do that?? and at least on a continius basis. That ammo is extremelty expensive in any brand name and I can't imagine one tearing a gun up shooting +P+ and still haveing any money left in the bank. Would also think that second round ouot of a semi with +P+ would not be as accessable either. FWIW IMO

 

[grenadier]

Glocks can tolerate it, as can HK's, and Sig's.

Many guns can tolerate +P+. I wouldn't shoot it on a regular basis, though, since more stress on the gun will wear it out sooner, plain and simple. The candle that burns twice as brightly, only burns half as long, and by shooting +P+ loads through your guns on a regular basis, you're burning very, very brightly...

You need to ask yourself: Is +P+ ammo really that important? Why do you want +P+?

If it's for higher velocities, then I'd simply suggest trying your hand at reloading. With powders such as Vihtavuori 3N38, you can get 1200 fps from a 147 grainer, using standard pressure, according to their reloading manual.

If it's for manstopping capabilities, there's really not much of a difference at all between today's premium hollowpoint loads. I would feel equally comfortable carrying Remington's standard pressure 147 grain Golden Saber, as I would carrying Winchester 127 grain Ranger Talon +P+, since in the end, they'll both perform with the same efficacy.

 

[Moonclip]

I trust Ruger alloy frames like on the P89 and such for high round counts. I've never seen or even heard of one cracking. Otherwise I usually like steel.