9mm +P+ Ammo...What Guns Can Take?

[atblis]

Where does

Where does everybody get that SIGs can tolerate +P+? Seems like wishful thinking to me.

HK and Glock are the only two that I've seen actual testing and manufacturers claims that says they can take the extra pounding.

What heck is +p+ anyways? Not a SAAMI spec.

"Nato" spec is what 9x19 was historically loaded to. The newer SAAMI spec stuff is watered down. +P is a marketing gimmick.

 

[AK103K]

Ruger states right on their website that they will take all 9mm loadings including +P+. They are one of the few that I've come across that have actually put in in writing in plain language. Many of them "allude" to it, but wont come right out and say it. I believe Glock, and most of the big name makers are in this list.

Hi Point lists +P as OK, but nothing about +P+.

If you have a specific pistol in mind, I'd email or call the company's support number and ask them directly. The internet is a great source of info, but you also have to consider the source. If your going to bet your gun, and possibly your safety or life on the decision, I'd get it from the horses mouth.

 

[La Pistoletta]

The Swedish army uses their own m/39B 9x19 round (formerly used for the Carl Gustav submachine gun) for their Glock 17's and 19's. The round has thicker case walls and higher pressure. Don't know if it is equivalent to +p+ but it's probably similar.

 

[AK103K]

I've shot Egyptian 9mm that was made for their copy of the M45, the "Port Said". If the Swedish stuff is anywhere near as hot, or corrosive, I'd be impressed if their Glocks last.

The Egyptian stuff is pretty hot, but it isnt as hot as the Spanish stuff I had, but it is VERY corrosive, if you ever come across it, RUN. If you use it, clean the gun on the spot.

In case you ever come across them....


This is a box of the Spanish...


This is the Egyptian....

 

[Moonclip]

Is sort of corrosive or more corrosive or a little corrosive like being a little bit pregnant?LOL!

Yes, I've always been impressed that Ruger states in the manual that +P+ is ok.

 

[AK103K]

Is sort of corrosive or more corrosive or a little corrosive like being a little bit pregnant?LOL!

Some seem like they are worse than others. The first time we used it, I dont know if it was because the weather was real humid or what, but the guns we shot that Egyptian out of in the morning, all had bright orange muzzles and chamber areas the next morning when we got around to cleaning them. Normally we would have cleaned them right off when we got home, but it was real late and we never encountered that before with anything else. I've never seen corrosive ammo react that quickly before or since.

 

[Moonclip]

I've always heard you have a few hours at max to clean up corrosive ammo residue. I guess it can be true!

 

[fletcher]

I actually wrote to Springfield about using +P and +P+ in my 9mm 1911 the day before this was posted, and just received a response from them. Here it is for reference:

[Fletcher],

You can shoot +P and/or +P+ ammo in our full size 1911 models, we just do not recommend a steady diet as it can be hard on the firearm.



Have a great day!

Dawn Oleson

Range Program Coordinator/

Dealer Assistance & Response Team

Springfield, Inc.

[email protected]

 

[Tim L]

How does 9mm +P or +P+ pressure compare to .357Sig? Would using the recoil spring for a .357Sig help?

Tim

 

[AK103K]

+P+ 9mm and the 357SIG are both in the 40000 psi range.

I think its more than just a recoil spring issue for the 9mm though. Most of the guns in 357SIG are different than the guns in 9mm, even for the same models.

If you really need +P+ velocities, why not just get a 357SIG? The 9mm is maxed at +P+, the 357SIG is just getting started.

 

[legion3]

If you really need +P+ velocities, why not just get a 357SIG? The 9mm is maxed at +P+, the 357SIG is just getting started.

What is the price of 357 sig practice ammo? 9mm is cheaper so the combination of cheaper practice ammo and the +P+ round seem like a good cost effective combination.

 

[AK103K]

357SIG ammo isnt as expensive as you always here in these discussions, and usually only a couple a bucks a box more than 9mm, and defensive ammo is about the same.

 

[jocko]

don't know

I don't know of any person in my area that has ever blow up or damaged a firearm from shooting +p+ ammo. I think that is an over used advertising gimmic. Most again cannot afford to shoot +p+ as a steady diet, nor why would you for range use anyway. I can't believe +p+ in the pipe will ever cause concern. One even has to look hard to find +p+ sitting anywhere for sale. Just an add gimmic IMO...

 

[legion3]

357SIG ammo isnt as expensive as you always here in these discussions, and usually only a couple a bucks a box more than 9mm, and defensive ammo is about the same.

Do they sell it at wal mart? I have never looked. It seems like practice ammo is more than a few bucks. WWB 100 round is still $18.55 abox here

At AMMO to Go its listed;

50rds - 9mm Winchester USA 115gr. FMJ Ammo - $11.95
50rds - 9mm Remington UMC 115gr. FMJ Ammo - $11.95

50rds - 357 Sig Remington UMC 125gr. FMJ - $21.49
50rds - 357 SIG S&B FMJ Ammo - $21.49

And there is not many choices of 357 Sig plinker.

on the other hand SD is pretty comperable:

50rds - 357 Sig Winchester Ranger Talon 125gr. HP Ammo $25.95
50rds - 357 Sig Speer Gold Dot 125gr. HP Ammo $26.95

50rds - 9mm Speer LE Gold Dot 124gr. HP Ammo $24.95
50rds - 9mm Winchester Ranger 115gr. +P+ HP Ammo $19.95
50rds - 9mm Winchester Ranger Talon 124gr. +P HP Ammo $26.95

 

[isp2605]

My agency worked at developing the 115 +P+ loading with Federal and W-W. We've run millionis of rds of it thru our 5904/6904, both alloy frame S&Ws. One of our range officers decided to try to wear out his 5904 and began documenting the number of just +P+ ammo. When he retired he had run a documented 65,000 rds thru his gun. He had replaced the barrel once since it was shot smooth and he replaced the spings. He bought that same 5904 when he retired and continues to shoot it. Last I saw him was this past fall and he was still shooting the same 5904. Knowing how much he shoots on a regular basis he has to have over 100,000 rds thru that 5904.
Will another 5904 last that long? Who knows. It's not likely tho his gun just happened to be the one in a million to go that many trouble free rds. We have full time SWAT so when the guys aren't training then they're making empty brass. They've run a whole bunch of rds thru theirs too but their count wasn't consistently documented. I know when I was on SWAT and carrying a 459 (2nd gen alloy) we were carrying Federal 115 BPLE. I've run many thousands of rds thru it and haven't had a lick of trouble.
As another said tho it's like driving your car 100 mph every place you go. You car may go 100,000 miles treated like that without a problem. The next guy may have the same car and can't get 50,000 out of it. But you can be pretty sure that on average a car driven at 100 mph all the time will show more wear and tear than a car that's never driven more than 50 mph.

 

[SeanSw]

MachIVshooter, is there any chance you could post pictures of any wear on your Baby Eagle? It is an interesting gun to perform experiments with since it's explicitly stated that +p and +P+ shouldn't be used. How well did yours shoot with such a wide variety of ammo weights and velocities? Did you need an extra power recoil spring?

 

[jocko]

wal-mart

yup still can buy the WWB 100 pak for $18.55. My wife works there so I get an additional 10% discount which bring it down to around $16,70. I just can't go anywhere, on line, off line, gun show and buy decent ammo for that price.

 

[jocko]

isp2605

sure in the hell speaks highly of the smiths to. amazing...

 

[AK103K]

I buy most all my ammo in bulk, mostly from Ammoman. Speer Lawman or Federal usually. For the 357SIG, he gets $289/1000, for the 9mm, $239/1000, both Speer Lawman. Works out to a $2.50 a box difference.

No doubt the Walmart 9mm is a pretty good deal, and about the cheapest(still have to pay tax on it though). WWB isnt what I'd call "quality" ammo though, but for the most part, it works.

Biggest problem I've had with Walmart is, I usually cant buy more than one or two boxes at a time, since they are almost always out. Great price if you can get it though.

My kid got some .40 at Walmart before the last increase, I think it was $15/100. He called me to ask if I wanted some and I said sure, pick me up a case too. The clerk about **** when he told him he wanted twenty boxes.

He got all they had, 8.

I'm sure if you shop around, you can find occasional deals on just about anything, most places, shipping added at the last page usually takes some of the sweetness out of it, one reason I like Ammoman, no added shipping, no sales tax.

 

[ARTiger]

I use Winchester Ranger T 127 Gr. +p+ in both mt CZ75BD and CZ75D PCR. Expensive, but I burn a box of Rangers about monthly just in the "practice with what you'll use" sentiment. About 600 through the BD and 400 through the PCR so far with nary a hiccup or sign of stress or wear. I can attest that HiPowers like hot rounds also. However, 200 or less of these reduces a Taurus PT 111 to parts.

 

[Don't Tread On Me]

My HK USP Series manual states that the gun is approved for +P and +P+, but also states it will increase wear and tear. I personally avoid +P+ in my guns.

I've shot +p+ in my USP. Small amounts. A lot more recoil and not much gain. The USP was originally designed around the .40S&W ...so it is an over-built 9mm.

 

[bestseller92]

While I have no hesitation using +P ammo in my Ruger P95, if I wanted something more I think I'd get a .357 SIG.

 

[thegoodfight]

What exactly is "+P"? Does it say on the box if it's high pressure or not? Forgive my ignorance. How can I tell?

 

[atblis]

It is a pressure standard set by SAAMI
SAAMI is
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sporting_Arms_and_Ammunition_Manufacturers'_Institute
http://www.saami.org/

SAAMI standards are voluntary, but if you load to them, and somebody blows up their gun using your ammo, it kinda covers you.

+P is simply a slightly higher pressure than regular. There is no +P+. It is a meaningless term.

In the case of 9x19 +P, it really isn't that dramatic a difference. IMO, it is more of a marketing exercise. Consider the difference in price, and then the difference in cost to manufacture. Basically just a little extra powder.

 

[usp9]

What exactly is "+P"? Does it say on the box if it's high pressure or not? Forgive my ignorance. How can I tell?

Yes, it should say "+P" on the box, but not neccesarily so. As a rule of thumb, think of "P" as standard load, +P as 10% higher pressure load and +P+ as an additional 10%. It means the velocity of the bullet increases due to the higher pressure. As pressure rises the wear on the gun increases too. Not all pistols are designed to withstand large amounts of high pressure loads.