9mm PCC Handloads

[film495]

I'll most likely just load plinking loads once I get time to work more in the reloading room. It got me thinking though, for a Ruger PCC Carbine - 9mm it says in their owner manual that it is rated to use +p ammo.

I don't know that I really care for +P ammo, but it got me thinking - for a carbine, are their gains in performance that can be had by tuning powerder selection etc. for use in a 16 inch barrel vs. a pistol?

I'm assuming it is a bit nelegable, but - it is an interesting concept, to possibly work with someday if I ever get more time to actually load and shoot.

 

[jmorris]

For blowback actions, I stick with normal stuff. With the right powder choice, you will get the gain just from the additional barrel length.

 

[9mmepiphany]

I looked into using my Ruger PC Carbine for IDPA when it was first recognized.

Talking to several folks who used their Titegroup pistol loads, pushing 147gr bullets, in the PCC, they reported that they had to increase the load quite a bit to make Power Factor. In talking to more PCC competitive shooters, they recomended using 115gr FMJ RN bullets and loading with N320 or Cleanshot,

Being a blowback action, you really want to use a pretty clean burning powder for increased reliability

 

[Walkalong]

My N320/124 Gr plinker load gets the same FPS from a 16” barrel as it does a 5” barrel. Slower powders gain some speed. No doubt some fast powder light loads could lose speed in the longer barrel.

 

[Crosshair]

I tinkered with this year's ago, when I was just some young guy with a 995 and a chronograph, and learned a few things recently with my high speed camera.

With a blowback action, you are loading for two projectiles. The bullet AND the bolt. This means that things work slightly differently than with a locked breech.

You don't get meaningful, if any, benefits with a heavier bullet. Unlike a locked breech gun, like a Winchester 92. The only time I was able to get higher velocity out of a rifle barrel in 9x19 was with 115 grain and lighter bullets. 124 grain was "Meh" and heavier than 124 was a waste of time. They shot just fine, you are just going to get pistol length barrel velocities though.

With my Chronos 1.4 high speed camera, I've seen just how much gas escapes around the case as a blowback gun is being fired. There is no such escape of gas in locked breech designs. This would partially explain 9mmepiphany's report of people needing to increase their charge weight. The other explanation is that Tightgroup is too fast a powder for a rifle barrel/blowback gun. For a 115 grain bullet, Blue Dot burn rate worked the best.

IIRC, I got about 1,600 ft per second out of a Hi-Point 995 using 115 grain bullets and Blue Dot. I don't remember the 90 grain velocity.

I hope this helps.

 

[Beancounter81]

FWIW, Lyman 49 and Lyman 50 both have rifle loads for 9mm using a Ruger PC9 carbine as the test barrel. They indicate Power Pistol produced the best results with 115 gr and 125 gr jacketed.

 

[Walkalong]

I haven’t tried anything over 124/125 Gr in a 9mm carbine, but was able to gain speed with 115s and 124/125s with powders like AA#5, HS-6, etc. Blue Dot should do very well considering it’s burn speed.

The faster powders also leave cases cleaner than slower ones, but all loads sooted up cases more in the blow back carbine than the locked breech pistols.

 

[Hugger-4641]

I've tried three powders in my Ruger PCC and all three were 150 to 250fps faster than same load in a pistol.
Hs6, CFE pistol, and vintage herco red dot gained speed. I'm not at home right now to look in my journal for exact load and speeds, I'll come back and post those later. generally , 115gr fmj that was 1100fps in my sccy 9mn were 1300 or so in the PCC.

 

[MikeInOr]

When I first started reloading 30+ years ago I got all excited and reloaded several hundred rounds of 9mm before actually taking them out to test them. I started at the suggested starting load and it would not cycle ANY handgun I owned. They got tossed in a cabinet some where and I learned a valuable lesson.

10 years ago or so I bought a Ruger PCC and at last I had a weapon that would reliably empty all those lightly charged brass cases for me. My experience is the Ruger PCC will shoot almost anything, even underpowered loads that won't cycle other actions. I would have no problem using +p loads in my PCC if they served a purpose for the tack at hand (Plinking doesn't really need +p loads though).

 

[LiveLife]

PCC Carbine - 9mm ... are their gains in performance that can be had by tuning powder selection etc. for use in a 16 inch barrel vs. a pistol?

Based on my testing, yes, quite a bit.

To me, delayed locked breech action pistols favor wider range of powder selection from faster to slower to produce accuracy as barrel is locked with breech wall until bullet exits the muzzle before separating which minimizes gas leakage around the case mouth/neck.

Blowback action carbines experience "dwell time" where bolt and buffer remain in contact with the barrel/chamber before moving back. How long the "dwell time" depends quite a bit on bolt/buffer combined weight and recoil spring rate. (FYI for AR based PCC, you want combined bolt and buffer weight to be 20-22 oz with carbine length recoil spring for less harsh cycling and few ounces more if you want longer dwell time)

And since blowback action leaks gas by design (compared to delayed locked breech action); powder selection, especially if you are loading below max charge, plays an important role in maintaining more consistent chamber pressures for greater accuracy. If you want to optimize accuracy, you want to load higher charges to seal case mouth/neck with chamber as well as possible or you will simply leak more gas producing very sooty cases and reduced accuracy.

When I initially tested 115/124 gr FMJ/RN carbine loads with my reference/GP 9mm loads using W231/HP-38 and Promo along with other moderately slower burning powders like BE-86, I noticed significant reduction in soot inside/outside of case with faster burning powders with smaller groups. What I realized was faster burning powders could be expanding the case mouth/neck faster to seal with the chamber wall and building more consistent chamber pressures before bolt/buffer moved back, and thus producing less soot on case.

Another thing I realized was more consistent the muzzle velocity, less extreme spread of vertical stringing from bullet drop (Yes, with PCC, you can see effects of bullet drop even at 50/75/100 yards like that of 22LR). And chrono data of various PCC loads confirm this and faster burning Promo produced smaller muzzle velocity variation and eventually produced smallest 100 yard group from powders I tested (And my experience has been that 16" carbine barrel adds about 150-200 fps to pistol barrel velocities depending on bullet weight) - https://www.thehighroad.org/index.p...n-9mm-40s-w-45acp.799231/page-4#post-10338994

Here is comparison 50 yard groups with Promo and W231/HP-38 using lighter 100 gr bullet to reduce bullet drop. As you can see Promo produced smaller core group cluster which resulted in smaller 100 yard group below.

And using even lighter 95 gr bullet to reduce bullet drop even further (I was doing 1:10 vs 1:16 barrel twist rate comparison test but won't discuss that on this post) - https://www.thehighroad.org/index.p...endence-from-work.853305/page-4#post-11387109

 

[film495]

I can't say this was scientific in any way, but I tried out the PC Carbine this weekend on some new steel targets, just free hung off a tall sawhorse fram on some twine. We also shot some .45ACP from 10-15 yards, and the 115 grain fmj we shot from the 9mm Carbine, really just seemed to womp the steel targets way harder than the .45ACP which was surprising to me. Just factory loads, that brown box training ammo that is pretty common is what I had.

The carbine was flipping the tarets up over the sawhorse, or just spinning them hard and snapping the connections. Again, I can't say it was scientific, but it appeared to be hitting significantly harder than .45ACP, 9mm, or 40 S&W from pistols at twice the distance. I can't say if I was impressed or confused more.

 

[Nature Boy]

Here’s my thread on the subject

https://www.thehighroad.org/index.php?threads/ruger-pc9-load.859680/

 

[LiveLife]

115 grain fmj we shot from the 9mm Carbine, really just seemed to womp the steel targets ... significantly harder than .45ACP, 9mm, or 40 S&W from pistols at twice the distance.

Think "lite" .357 Mag.

9mm pistol bullets traveling at magnum velocities will make many people take a second look at 9mm carbines.

100 gr bullets moving at almost 1500 fps flattens trajectory for longer 50-100 yard targets and 115/124 gr bullets at closer defensive distances are nearing .357 Mag ballistics.

Now if we look at 45ACP carbine, we are now talking about 45 Super ballistics ... 185 gr bullets traveling at 1100-1200 fps.

 

[Bcwitt]

Blow backs often are a bit touchy w hot stuff. I'd stick to standard pressure & fast powders.

 

[film495]

Blow backs often are a bit touchy w hot stuff. I'd stick to standard pressure & fast powders.

I admit I was impressed with how hard standard 115 gr fmj factory ball ammo hit steel targets at 25 yards. I already have Win231, so I'll probably work with that to start if I can get some time. I have some 124 grain round and flap point bullet from Xtreme. Maybe I should add some lighter bullets to the inventory, seems like those with experience do report 115 or even a bit lighter is the sweet spot for projectile weight, and faster powder.

 

[kerreckt]

I load all my 9mm the same whether for my pcc or handguns. That way I don't have to worry about segregating my 9mm ammo. The longer barrel on pcc increases velocity significantly. Best wishes!