I ordered some 122gr lead FPs online. I'm using the LEE reloading manual and it gives an overall length of 1.15 minimum for this load. The problem is that the bullet isn't seated anywhere deep enough at that length. The bullet has a lube ring around it and at 1.15 the ring is outside of the case. This doesn't seem or look right. If I seat it deaper then I'm well below the min OAL listed for that load. I'm confused. If the bullet was a Round nose or FMJ it would have a longer OAL than a lead FP wouldn't it? How can they give one Min OAL for a bullet weight (eg 125gr lead bullet) without mention of the type of the bullet? I'm really stumped. I'm relatively knowledgeable about firearms but I'm BRAND new at reloading.
9mm reloading help with OAL
- Thread starter jon_in_wv
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OAL's in the load manuals are usually only good for the exact bullet they reference. Maximum OAL for the 9mm is 1.169". You need to do a little experimenting with the bullet you chose and the OAL that will allow it to feed and chamber properly. There's no magical OAL number that fits all bullets. The Lyman 115gr FP bullet has a manual suggested OAL of .997".
Field strip and pull the barrel from your pistol to use to gauge the bullet. Drop a factory round in the chamber and note the position the round is in relation to the end of the chamber or barrel hood. Your reload should fit the same, drop in and fall out with the same ease.
Flat nose bullets have a shoulder on them and what usually works is to seat the bullet so the case mouth just bellow this shoulder. Load one round without crimping and adjust your seating stem down in increments until the bullet looks good in relation to the case mouth. Taper crimp the round and drop it into your chamber.
If the end fo the case is further out of the chamber than a factory round, you bullet is engaging the rifling before completely chambering OR you didn't crimp properly and remove the case belling. Adjust the bullet a bit deeper if needed and check again. When it fits like a factory round make sure its below max OAL, put the round into you magazine to make sure it fits, lock down the position on you seating die and make another 1/2 dozen rounds.
Load these test rounds up and see if they'll cycle through your pistol then head the the range and try them out. If they work no further adjustments need to be made as far as OAL goes. If you want, write it down for that type of bullet.
Field strip and pull the barrel from your pistol to use to gauge the bullet. Drop a factory round in the chamber and note the position the round is in relation to the end of the chamber or barrel hood. Your reload should fit the same, drop in and fall out with the same ease.
Flat nose bullets have a shoulder on them and what usually works is to seat the bullet so the case mouth just bellow this shoulder. Load one round without crimping and adjust your seating stem down in increments until the bullet looks good in relation to the case mouth. Taper crimp the round and drop it into your chamber.
If the end fo the case is further out of the chamber than a factory round, you bullet is engaging the rifling before completely chambering OR you didn't crimp properly and remove the case belling. Adjust the bullet a bit deeper if needed and check again. When it fits like a factory round make sure its below max OAL, put the round into you magazine to make sure it fits, lock down the position on you seating die and make another 1/2 dozen rounds.
Load these test rounds up and see if they'll cycle through your pistol then head the the range and try them out. If they work no further adjustments need to be made as far as OAL goes. If you want, write it down for that type of bullet.
RustyFN
Member
Are you sure 1.15 isn't max. I load most 115 grain and 124 grain FP and HP around 1.12. I load RN at 1.135.
Rusty
Rusty
Puddin99
Member
Also make sure that the rounds actually fit well in the magazine. I've had some a touch too long. They will still fit in the magazine but after you get a few in they will bind up because they are too long.
One suggestion:
Measure the length of a round nose bullet from tip of the nose to bottom of base.
Now do the same with the flat nose.
Subtract one from the other.
The difference is the difference you should have between the overall lengths of two otherwise identical cartridges (same bullet weight and powder charge) but different bullet profiles.
Example: You measure RN bullet at 0.596 and flat nose at 0.556. The difference is 0.040 inches. If the RN minimum OAL is 1.150", then the flat nose OAL is .040 inches shorter, or 1.110".
Measure the length of a round nose bullet from tip of the nose to bottom of base.
Now do the same with the flat nose.
Subtract one from the other.
The difference is the difference you should have between the overall lengths of two otherwise identical cartridges (same bullet weight and powder charge) but different bullet profiles.
Example: You measure RN bullet at 0.596 and flat nose at 0.556. The difference is 0.040 inches. If the RN minimum OAL is 1.150", then the flat nose OAL is .040 inches shorter, or 1.110".
rfwobbly
Member
Jon -
Steve C is correct. The information in your manual only applies to the exact bullet and powder they were using. They quote it as a "minimum" becasue as the bullet is loaded longer (a larger OAL), the internal pressures go down, thereby decreasing risk.
This is where having a reloading library with lots of sources is very nice. You really need more than one book, even if it's the free powder booklets from the local gun shops.
What you'll want to do is load up a test round (case and bullet ONLY) with the OAL that looks good to you (all the grease glands covered, etc). Then try to find a published load for a 124/125gr bullet at that OAL. If you cannot find this, then ask your question here differently:
Can someone give me a published load for a 124gr LRN using XXX powder at an OAL of around 1.XXX inches ?
You'll get numerous responses to that.
Steve C is correct. The information in your manual only applies to the exact bullet and powder they were using. They quote it as a "minimum" becasue as the bullet is loaded longer (a larger OAL), the internal pressures go down, thereby decreasing risk.
This is where having a reloading library with lots of sources is very nice. You really need more than one book, even if it's the free powder booklets from the local gun shops.
What you'll want to do is load up a test round (case and bullet ONLY) with the OAL that looks good to you (all the grease glands covered, etc). Then try to find a published load for a 124/125gr bullet at that OAL. If you cannot find this, then ask your question here differently:
Can someone give me a published load for a 124gr LRN using XXX powder at an OAL of around 1.XXX inches ?
You'll get numerous responses to that.
Well, obviously if someone had that it would answer my question. (except the load in question is with a Lead FLAT point not round nose) I did order a Lyman's reloading manual. That may help. I'm in no real hurry anyhow. Its not that economical to reload 9mm anyhow so I'm still shooting WWB and collecting more brass.
I ended up loaded my bullets to a OAL of 1.04 which is below what the manual said for overall length but it seemed like the max length I could use to seat the bullet properly in the case. On Sunday I fired about 25 rounds of it down range and they worked perfectly. Nice straight and soft shooting load with no signs of excessive pressure. I use WIN cases and 5.4gr of Unique. I think that will work fine until i run out of these bullets. I have 1000 125gr LRN in route for my next load.
See this recent thread:
http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=428618
Keep in mind the definition between OAL and COAL.
Hikingman
http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=428618
Keep in mind the definition between OAL and COAL.
Hikingman
Which is what?
The thread you posted a link to was almost completely useless as they where loading FMJ and LRN which has a totally different profile than the 122gr LFP I am loading. Its not possible to load it to the overall lengths they are listing, as the purpose for this thread.
The thread you posted a link to was almost completely useless as they where loading FMJ and LRN which has a totally different profile than the 122gr LFP I am loading. Its not possible to load it to the overall lengths they are listing, as the purpose for this thread.
rfwobbly
Member
Jon -
When you look at the load data, the primary (most important) bit of information you are looking for is a load for ANY 9mm bullet 121gr to 125gr and its corresponding OAL, powder, and charge. The powder is sized to move a specific weight. The pressure depends on the relationship between the powder being specified, the amount of that powder, AND how much volume is inside the case, under the seated bullet... in other words the COL.
Secondly, you'd be looking at the bullet nose. For instance, a FP might use a slightly shorter OAL than an equivalent weight RN because the bullet is probably shorter itself... and the object is again to relate the powder to the case volume that is under the seated bullet. Follow? Stop thinking about where the nose of the bullet ends up, and start thinking about where the base of the bullet ends up!!
Thirdly, we look at the composition of the bullet. A FMJ typically loads hotter than a plated bullet, which in turn typically loads hotter than a pure lead bullet. So if the only load we can find for a 124gr LRN is a FMJ, then we can back off the max by about 3/10 gr or so and start there. To be exactly sure, look at the other 9mm loads in the manual. How much less are the matching loads for LRN bullets than the FMJ for the same OAL and your powder?
Yes, obviously for safety you want to find an exact match for your gun, your bullet, your powder, your primer, your case, etc, etc, but it can't always be done. This is where having a reloading library comes in handy. The closer you can start to your load, the fewer calculations you'll have to do. Since the most prominent safety concern is the "human element", then you want to reduce your calculations as much as possible. (Never, ever use a guess.)
So if you don't want to acquire more reloading manuals, then the only path you have is to buy only the bullets and powder mentioned in the manuals you do have.
I hope this helps!
When you look at the load data, the primary (most important) bit of information you are looking for is a load for ANY 9mm bullet 121gr to 125gr and its corresponding OAL, powder, and charge. The powder is sized to move a specific weight. The pressure depends on the relationship between the powder being specified, the amount of that powder, AND how much volume is inside the case, under the seated bullet... in other words the COL.
Secondly, you'd be looking at the bullet nose. For instance, a FP might use a slightly shorter OAL than an equivalent weight RN because the bullet is probably shorter itself... and the object is again to relate the powder to the case volume that is under the seated bullet. Follow? Stop thinking about where the nose of the bullet ends up, and start thinking about where the base of the bullet ends up!!
Thirdly, we look at the composition of the bullet. A FMJ typically loads hotter than a plated bullet, which in turn typically loads hotter than a pure lead bullet. So if the only load we can find for a 124gr LRN is a FMJ, then we can back off the max by about 3/10 gr or so and start there. To be exactly sure, look at the other 9mm loads in the manual. How much less are the matching loads for LRN bullets than the FMJ for the same OAL and your powder?
Yes, obviously for safety you want to find an exact match for your gun, your bullet, your powder, your primer, your case, etc, etc, but it can't always be done. This is where having a reloading library comes in handy. The closer you can start to your load, the fewer calculations you'll have to do. Since the most prominent safety concern is the "human element", then you want to reduce your calculations as much as possible. (Never, ever use a guess.)
So if you don't want to acquire more reloading manuals, then the only path you have is to buy only the bullets and powder mentioned in the manuals you do have.
I hope this helps!
When I was loading Magnus 122 Gr FP bullets I loaded them at 1.060 O.A.L. and they worked well in my pistols.
You were right to question an O.A.L. where the lube was showing. Any lead bullet with standard lube grooves should be seated deep enough to cover the grooves.
Bullet style has a lot to do with "functional" O.A.L. Flat Point bullets obviously will have a shorter O.A.L. than a round nose, especially the more pointed round nose styles.
Find an O.A.L. that functions well in your pistol and work up your load using that O.A.L.
The load books often give minimum and or maximum O.A.L.'s, but you need to find one that functions well in your guns. It will usually end up in between those min & max recommendations, but not always.
If you are seating shorter than they did for the load data, just keep that in mind as you work up your load, as a shorter O.A.L will increase pressure some. How much shorter (deeper in the case), the working pressure of the caliber, and the capacity of the case will all determine how much. The 9MM is a small capacity, relatively high pressure case, so even small changes in O.A.L. will affect pressure more than that same amount in say....45 ACP, a larger case operating at lower pressures.
Hope this helps. AC
You were right to question an O.A.L. where the lube was showing. Any lead bullet with standard lube grooves should be seated deep enough to cover the grooves.
Bullet style has a lot to do with "functional" O.A.L. Flat Point bullets obviously will have a shorter O.A.L. than a round nose, especially the more pointed round nose styles.
Find an O.A.L. that functions well in your pistol and work up your load using that O.A.L.
The load books often give minimum and or maximum O.A.L.'s, but you need to find one that functions well in your guns. It will usually end up in between those min & max recommendations, but not always.
If you are seating shorter than they did for the load data, just keep that in mind as you work up your load, as a shorter O.A.L will increase pressure some. How much shorter (deeper in the case), the working pressure of the caliber, and the capacity of the case will all determine how much. The 9MM is a small capacity, relatively high pressure case, so even small changes in O.A.L. will affect pressure more than that same amount in say....45 ACP, a larger case operating at lower pressures.
Hope this helps. AC
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Oh yea:
Remember, a 122 Gr FP will not seat any deeper in the case, within reason, than a 125 Gr RN at a longer O.A.L., so 1.150 minmum for a RN isn't any deeper in the case than a shoter O.A.L. with a FP.
I log the diameter & length of the bullet used in my log book as well as the O.A.L. of the load. That helps to figure if a different bullet is seated any deeper or less deep than that one later. Not clear. I know. Hard to put into words.
I load a Master Match 125 Gr JSP that is .355 X .592. Lets say that 122 Gr FP is .356 X .525. (which I forgot to log...oops) That is .067 difference. That means if I seat the 125 JSP at 1.110 (which is where I did) and I seat the 122 Gr FP at 1.050 (which is where I did), then the FP is actually taking up .007 less case capacity.
Remember, a 122 Gr FP will not seat any deeper in the case, within reason, than a 125 Gr RN at a longer O.A.L., so 1.150 minmum for a RN isn't any deeper in the case than a shoter O.A.L. with a FP.
I log the diameter & length of the bullet used in my log book as well as the O.A.L. of the load. That helps to figure if a different bullet is seated any deeper or less deep than that one later. Not clear. I know. Hard to put into words.
I load a Master Match 125 Gr JSP that is .355 X .592. Lets say that 122 Gr FP is .356 X .525. (which I forgot to log...oops) That is .067 difference. That means if I seat the 125 JSP at 1.110 (which is where I did) and I seat the 122 Gr FP at 1.050 (which is where I did), then the FP is actually taking up .007 less case capacity.
Yes, all good info. It seemed like common sense to me that the bullet had to be seated at the depth I ended up at but of all the loads listed in my manuals NONE of them were under 1.10 for overall length. I really just wanted some input before I went under that with this bullet. I figured someone must be loading with the same bullets. I have about 500 of these and I have 1000 125grLRN ordered so it will all be moot pretty soon anyhow.
I still haven't heard what the difference between OAL and COAL is. Someone threw in COL now too.
I still haven't heard what the difference between OAL and COAL is. Someone threw in COL now too.
rfwobbly
Member
The Hornady manual lists lots of 9mm loads in your length.
Unflappable
Member
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- Nov 12, 2008
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COL vs OAL
Here's my interpretation of the difference...
COL = the SAAMI specification for the maximum cartridge length for which the particular caliber gun is designed. The gun may not operate properly with ammunition longer than this.
OAL= the length of the cartridge for a particular load of powder and a particular bullet.
For example, for 45ACP the COL is 1.275", this is listed in both the Hornady and Lyman reloading manuals, but in each book none of the loads they present use this max length. I have found that my 1911 doesn't like reloads longer than about 1.257" even though the factory ammo I occasionally use is about 1.262" long, and this works fine in my guns.
Unflappable
Here's my interpretation of the difference...
COL = the SAAMI specification for the maximum cartridge length for which the particular caliber gun is designed. The gun may not operate properly with ammunition longer than this.
OAL= the length of the cartridge for a particular load of powder and a particular bullet.
For example, for 45ACP the COL is 1.275", this is listed in both the Hornady and Lyman reloading manuals, but in each book none of the loads they present use this max length. I have found that my 1911 doesn't like reloads longer than about 1.257" even though the factory ammo I occasionally use is about 1.262" long, and this works fine in my guns.
Unflappable
Faitmaker
Member
I thought COAL referred to the OAL of the chamber of the pistol. Now you've really got me confused. I just started reloading two weeks ago.
I have the same problem. I've tried 125gr RNL in my Taurus PT111 Mill Pro and I can't load longer than 1.09 or the slide doesn't always go forward and I have extraction problems when extracting the live round (it's up in the lands).
I shot the RNL's at the range last week and the 1.09's shot fine at 4.8gr (Unique) but the 1.12's would not let the slide forward. For the record, at 4.8 it still had a bigger boom then I get with commercial loads, which surprised me.
So last night, I purchased Sierra 125gr JHP and I'm running into the same thing. I loaded a round in that was 1.12 and let it snap in (uncrimped so it would move a little) and there was a mark where it touched the lands. The mark was right above where the bullet started to round outward. So I backed it down a bit more and it fit fine at 1.09. I'm packing them at 4.2gr (Unique) to make sure I don't have a pressure problem.
Tonight, I'm going to cut into a casing and put a bullet in to see what my chamber length is.
Sorry for dredging up an old thread but felt it was still relevant.
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Patrick
CHL Holder
NRA Lifetime Member
I have the same problem. I've tried 125gr RNL in my Taurus PT111 Mill Pro and I can't load longer than 1.09 or the slide doesn't always go forward and I have extraction problems when extracting the live round (it's up in the lands).
I shot the RNL's at the range last week and the 1.09's shot fine at 4.8gr (Unique) but the 1.12's would not let the slide forward. For the record, at 4.8 it still had a bigger boom then I get with commercial loads, which surprised me.
So last night, I purchased Sierra 125gr JHP and I'm running into the same thing. I loaded a round in that was 1.12 and let it snap in (uncrimped so it would move a little) and there was a mark where it touched the lands. The mark was right above where the bullet started to round outward. So I backed it down a bit more and it fit fine at 1.09. I'm packing them at 4.2gr (Unique) to make sure I don't have a pressure problem.
Tonight, I'm going to cut into a casing and put a bullet in to see what my chamber length is.
Sorry for dredging up an old thread but felt it was still relevant.
---
Patrick
CHL Holder
NRA Lifetime Member
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Faitmaker
Member
Well, last night I put in an email to Sierra, the makers of my JHP. I explained my dilemma and this was the response I got back today (which made me feel a bit better).
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