9MM Reloads Question

[stodd]

Hello,

I just got back from the range this morning and tested out 20 rounds in my SMith and Wesson M&P 9MM.

I loaded 10 rounds at 3.9 grains of bullseye powder with a OAL of 1.125" for my berry's 9MM 124 grain RN DS bullet.

I loaded 10 rounds at 4.0 grains of bullseye powder with a OAL of 1.125" for my berrys 9MM 124 grain RN DS bullet.

My results were that about 20% of the time the fired case got stuck as it was getting ejected. The cases sometimes hit my shoulder or hit the ground about 2 feet from me. Factory rounds go alittle further when they hit the ground.

Any have any idea what the issue is with my reloads? I was thinking maybe the powder just a hair low or the OAL is too long for my gun. My Taper crimp is about .0005 to .0007 is this ok or should i taper crimp alittle more?

Thanks..
Stodd

 

[rcmodel]

3.9 is a starting load with a 125 in Lyman #49.

Older Alliant data says 4.9 is a max load for a 125 FMJ or 125 lead bullet, and a 10% reduced Starting load would be 4.4 grains. Thats a half grain more then you are using.

Up the charge a little more.

IMO: Bullseye is too fast burning for 9mm, and the pressure curve may not function well with some compact guns locking cam delay until max load pressure is reached.

A slightly slower powder like Unique, AA #5, or Power Pistol might do better in your S&W.

Not sure about your crimp measurements. Are you actually measureing in 1/10,000 like you posted? At any rate, the taper crimp should do no more then straighten out the case mouth bell, and very lightly kiss the bullet.

Using the barrel out of the gun as a guage, if they drop into the chamber freely of thier own weight with a "Kachunk", you have enough crimp.

rc

 

[ScratchnDent]

I agree with RC. The charge sounds too light.

Lee's 2nd Edition lists 4.7 gr as a starting load and 4.9 as maximum.

 

[Walkalong]

Definitely running out of oomph before it cycles the action fully. I agree that AA #5 (or something similar) would be much better suited.

I shot some AA #5 loads in my "new to me" 9MM this AM. I am quite happy with my new toy.

700X, W-231, WSF, AA #2, AA #5, HS-6, SR-4756, N320, N330, & N340 have all worked well to very well in various 9MM apps for me.

 

[zxcvbob]

I use 4.5 grains of Bullseye with 135 grain cast bullets (this is a very hot load.) 4.5 should be a good medium load with 124-125 grain bullets. 3.9 sounds too light to me, although BE has a wider working range than you'd expect.

 

[stodd]

Thanks guys, I may try and find some AA#5 then for my 9MM..

Walkalong,
What bullet did you try out in your new toy 9MM today? And what was the powder charge on it of AA#5?

 

[JDGray]

I agree that your charge is low, but also that your oal is short for round nose profile. If you bump up the powder, I'd move the oal out to 1.150" or so. I run hollow points at 1.110" The profile on the Barrys may need to be seated deeper than normal, but long is safe.

 

[stodd]

Thanks JD and RC....

 

[Tom609]

I use Bullseye with 124 grain FMJ. My 5906 likes 4.2 grains and my 92fs likes 4.3. I know the book says 4.7, but that is, in my opinion, too hot a load. I also use 3.9 when loading 125 grain MBC lead RN. I'd start at 4.1 and go up a grain at a time until your slide function properly, and consistently.

 

[Walkalong]

Walkalong,
What bullet did you try out in your new toy 9MM today?

PM sent

 

[griff383]

I used 4.4 gr of Titegroup under the same bullet and an OAL of 1.125 and had no problems, I also put 4.0 gr of Bullseye with a OAL of 1.125 and 1.115. The Bullseye had problems cycling the action reliably, they shot fine but wouldnt always lock the slide to rear on the last shot. Next step is prob a 4.4 gr charge of Bullseye with an OAL of 1.125. This is all out of a Ruger SR9c with WSP primers

 

[stodd]

How do you guys think Titegroup powder works for 9MM? Anyone out there try it? I've having issues finding AA#5, Power Pistol or Unique locally here where im at.

I was able to find some Titegroup at the local gun shop, but wanted to see if some of you out there are using that for 9MM and/or with the berry bullets.

Thanks griff383 for that info on titegroup.
Stodd

 

[LiveLife]

My results were that about 20% of the time the fired case got stuck as it was getting ejected. The cases sometimes hit my shoulder or hit the ground about 2 feet from me.

Some newer semi-autos have stiffer recoil springs (compacts/subcompacts have even stiffer recoil springs than full-size pistols) - some lighter loads that cycle the full-size slide well won't reliably cycle the sub-compact slide.

Looks like you need to up the charge for your pistol. Test load some at 4.3 gr and see how that goes.

BTW, How was your accuracy?

 

[stodd]

BDS,

Well lets just say that my first 20 rounds were not very good at all. It was windy and i was alittle nervous since they were my first loads in this new 9MM gun of mine.

I've been looking in my lyman's manual shows 125 gr JHP 4.5gr max and on Alliant's website shows 4.4 gr tested for 124 gr Speer GDHP, so i'm not really sure what to use for the berry's 124 gr RN DS bullet. I dont want to shoot it too hot either.

I'm still trying to locate a different powder locally, but I'm having issues with that due to no one locally has any of the powders some ppl have said work good for 9MM. I might have found some titegroup powder, but wanting on a call from the local gun shop to see if they got some in on there shipment yesterday.

 

[wrangler5]

At the last IDPA national match, Titegroup was used by more competitors than any other powder. Not all of them shot 9mm, of course, but about half of 'em did. If that tells you anything.

 

[LiveLife]

I've been looking in my lyman's manual shows 125 gr JHP 4.5gr max and on Alliant's website shows 4.4 gr tested for 124 gr Speer GDH

You can't go by bullet weight and powder charge alone - You must factor in OAL.

Shorter OAL will increase the pressure and longer OAL will decrease the pressure. This is the reason why I prefer to start my load development with longer OAL (1.125" typical for 9mm/40S&W) unless I have feeding/chambering issues. Once I have determined OAL that will feed/chamber well, I then move to adjust powder charge for accuracy.

If you look at the published load data, higher powder charge ranges will also indicate longer OAL and vice versa.

For a new reloader, I normally recommend W231/HP38 over Bullseye, as they have broader powder charge range for 9mm than Bullseye. But if you are experiencing difficult time finding powder, you can use Green Dot as close substitute and you should have easier time finding it. I have used Bullseye with good results in 115 gr FMJ and 124/5 gr plated 9mm loads, but loaded around 4.3+ gr.

I suggested 4.0 gr of Bullseye as starting charge at 1.125" OAL (which you found to be barely adequate to cycle the slide for your pistol). Increasing the powder charge should reliably cycle the slide and resolve the ejection issue. If you prefer, you can do incremental charge increase of 0.1 gr (4.1, 4.2, 4.3 etc.).

Some match shooters in our group use Titegroup as it is a high energy powder and they load it to high - near max load data. I have nothing against Titegroup, but prefer to recommend W231/HP38 (Green Dot) for new reloaders as it has broader starting load range that works well with mild/moderate recoil.

Hope this helps.

 

[stodd]

Thanks for the info BDS.. I'll try and see if i can find some green dot maybe locally.

 

[LiveLife]

stodd, Bullseye is a versatile faster burning powder that many shooters like to use for .38 Spl - 45ACP. I always have it close by and use it for short barreled pistols. Once you find a charge that cycles your pistol slide well, I think you'll like it.

As you continue to reload, you will find yourself adding more powder to your bench. I am still trying different powders and adding more on an ongoing basis. I recently tried Promo/Green Dot and found Promo good for duplicating factory JHP load recoil (although the large flake size doesn't meter too well for me) and Green Dot fairly close to W231/HP38 burn rate and performance.

I am looking to try AA#2 next among other powders.

 

[Ky Larry]

AA lists load data for 9mm 115-147gr bullets using AA#2,#5, and #7. I don't load 9mm so I can't give you any advise on which will work best for you. Good luck.

 

[orrwdd]

AA lists load data for 9mm 115-147gr bullets using AA#2,#5, and #7. I don't load 9mm so I can't give you any advise on which will work best for you. Good luck.

AA #5 would be my choice but AA #7 is also a good choice. AA #2 is similar to Bullseye.

Bill

 

[Shrinkmd]

I made up a nice batch of 124 LRN with 3.4 gr of Bullseye, seated to 1.102, CCI SP in CBC brass. It averaged 916 out of a 5906TSW on a hot day a few weeks ago. An accurate, consistent load (ES 27 SD 6.7) I only shot 15 that day, so I need a larger sample size. But I've shot about 100 seated to 1.125", and they also cycled the gun no problem.

Unfortunately, I need to try seating them deeper, since I jammed up my M&P9c twice with the same rounds. I think I need to seat a bit deeper. Yes, I did the "drop the loaded round into the chamber" test, and I thought I had the OAL right, but obviously not. Next time I load I will seat a little deeper, maybe 1.095 or 1.090. According to Lyman and Hornady they give min OAL of 1.060 or 1.065 (better double check that, the manual is not handy at the moment). But the 5906 eats them no problem right now.

This is a nice easy load for target practice, cycles the gun no problem, and the cases fall at your feet.

 

[LiveLife]

The reason why I wanted to try AA #2 next is because Hodgdon burn rate chart lists AA #2 between N320 and W231/HP38.

AA #5 is listed with WSF and HS6, both of which I have used for 5" 1911 with great results.

 

[rfwobbly]

Ah, now you're starting to percolate! Use the published data to help you. Now, you do realize that the "speed change" between #21 & #22 may not be the same as the change between #29 & #30, right? These powders are not evenly spaced on the "speed chart". There are sometimes large gaps which no powder occupies; and sometimes 2 powders are exactly alike. A better view of this can be gained by looking on page 2 here...

VV Reloading Guide

 

[TonyAngel]

AA#2 is going to be too fast. If you want an easy shooting load, AA#5 is going to be a better choice.

 

[LiveLife]

Ah, now you're starting to percolate!

rfwobbly, thanks for the chart, but yes, I have looked at quite a few burn rate charts in the past. But different charts listed powders at different burn rates. They all "seem" to approximate burn rates of each manufacturer's powders with other manufacturers.

Current canister powders in order of approximate burning rate.
This list is for reference only and not to be used for developing loads.

(BTW, where's Alliant's Bullseye on Vihtavuori's chart? Is it on Ramshot's column?)

After comparing various charts, I decided to use three "fuzzy circles" for pistol powders I use. I have settled on Hodgdon's as my current primary reference burn rate chart.

Fast: Bullseye, Promo

Medium: Green Dot, W231/HP38

Slow: WSF, HS6

I am planning to order several one pound containers of powder with our next group bulk powder/primer order and looking to add No. 2, WST, N320 (highly doubt it will be in stock) among others.