9mm v.s. 38 Super
- Thread starter Kuyong_Chuin
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Potatohead
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Thanks for the answers guys, I knew little about this round. Sounds like a good package. Of course Ive strolled past it in the manuals. Guess I figured it was a revolver round.
ReloaderFred
Member
Another easy conversion for the 1911 I didn't see mentioned is the .400 Cor-Bon. This is also accomplished with just a barrel change, since it's the .45 acp case necked down to .40 caliber. I've got a barrel for one of my 1911's and once in awhile I'll take it to the range just for fun. Mine shoots best with 160-165 grain bullets, and doesn't care for loads with 135 gr. bullets.
Hope this helps.
Fred
Hope this helps.
Fred
Same here, and I agree, the 165 shot better for me than the 135 when I tried both. I still have some of those 135s laying around.
Bottom line is if you have a 1911 in .45 ACP and want to try something different, the .400 Corbin is fun once in a while.
1SOW
Member
Re 9mm Luger major power factor.
This cartridge is commonly loaded to over 1400 FPS for Open Class USPSA competition.
1911-type STI and other frames even including Glocks
-)) The big-stick mags usually hold 26-ish rds with more around 20.
A 124gr bullet at 175 power factor is travelling 1411 fps.
A 115gr bullet at 175 PF is travelling at 1521 fps.
These too are flat shooters.
This cartridge is commonly loaded to over 1400 FPS for Open Class USPSA competition.
1911-type STI and other frames even including Glocks
-)) The big-stick mags usually hold 26-ish rds with more around 20.A 124gr bullet at 175 power factor is travelling 1411 fps.
A 115gr bullet at 175 PF is travelling at 1521 fps.
These too are flat shooters.
Potatohead
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Im kind of interested now, anything to note about the 38 Supers recoil?
Wikipedia said:
Wikipedia said:
Last edited:
I think the Wikapedia statement needs more information.
I find 38 Super fired in my basic M1911 has less felt recoil than my similarly equipped 45 ACP model but more than any of my 9x19s.
But, I only shoot 230 grain RN in the 45.
For competition where a power factor is needed, the 45 ACP can probably still get by with a lighter bullet and still make Major while the 38 Super needs to be loaded near the max. Recoil in 38 Super would be sharper.
In the early days, enterprising folks loaded the 9x19 to major levels, which exceeded the listed pressures for the round. I believe the practice has been outlawed by the rules, but since I do not participate in those games, I could be wrong.
I find 38 Super fired in my basic M1911 has less felt recoil than my similarly equipped 45 ACP model but more than any of my 9x19s.
But, I only shoot 230 grain RN in the 45.
For competition where a power factor is needed, the 45 ACP can probably still get by with a lighter bullet and still make Major while the 38 Super needs to be loaded near the max. Recoil in 38 Super would be sharper.
In the early days, enterprising folks loaded the 9x19 to major levels, which exceeded the listed pressures for the round. I believe the practice has been outlawed by the rules, but since I do not participate in those games, I could be wrong.
Potatohead
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Yea, that part of the Wiki article was more zoned in on the shooting competition stuff, power factor and all that, so it's possible it may have been in reference to some uncommon loadings. (?)
Pointshoot
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Reloadron: "There were also a good number of countries that banned handguns in military chamberings leaving a nice niche for the 38 Super. I think among them on this side of the pond was Mexico and Canada. Not 100% on that."
I was talking to a gunshop owner who's in a rural area (primarily agricultural economy) where there are a lot of Mexicans. He said the 38 Super is extremely popular for the reason you mentioned. I don't know about Canada.
I was talking to a gunshop owner who's in a rural area (primarily agricultural economy) where there are a lot of Mexicans. He said the 38 Super is extremely popular for the reason you mentioned. I don't know about Canada.
"38 Automatic and 38 Super Automatic are identical cases"
38 Super commercial is held down so fools do not run them through 38 autos and turn cheap guns into shrapnel.
After all, if a 38 auto is good a 38 super must be better, right?
The two most abundant things in the universe are hydrogen and stupidity.
We have yet to find anything useful to do with stupidity.
38 Super commercial is held down so fools do not run them through 38 autos and turn cheap guns into shrapnel.
After all, if a 38 auto is good a 38 super must be better, right?
The two most abundant things in the universe are hydrogen and stupidity.
We have yet to find anything useful to do with stupidity.
Potatohead
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Yea, the Wiki article mentions that when a murder is investigated in the Southwestern states and they find Super 38 brass, they are already thinking it was probably a Mexican perp.
These are examples, not loading information:
Cartridge : .38 Super Auto +P (SAAMI)
Bullet : .355, 124, Hornady HP/XTP 35571
Useable Case Capaci: 12.942 grain H2O = 0.840 cm³
Cartridge O.A.L. L6: 1.280 inch = 32.51 mm
Barrel Length : 5.0 inch = 127.0 mm
Predicted Data for Indicated Charges of the Following Powders.
Matching Maximum Pressure: 38500 psi, or 265 MPa
or a maximum loading ratio or filling of 100 %
USE ONLY FOR COMPARISON !
Cartridge : 9 mm Luger +P (SAAMI)
Bullet : .355, 124, Hornady HP/XTP 35571
Useable Case Capaci: 9.270 grain H2O = 0.602 cm³
Cartridge O.A.L. L6: 1.169 inch = 29.69 mm
Barrel Length : 5.0 inch = 127.0 mm
Predicted Data for Indicated Charges of the Following Powders.
Matching Maximum Pressure: 38500 psi, or 265 MPa
or a maximum loading ratio or filling of 100 %
USE ONLY FOR COMPARISON !
As you can see some powders work better for certain cartridges than others. These tables are both pegged at 38500 Psi and use a 5in barrel.
Cartridge : .38 Super Auto +P (SAAMI)
Bullet : .355, 124, Hornady HP/XTP 35571
Useable Case Capaci: 12.942 grain H2O = 0.840 cm³
Cartridge O.A.L. L6: 1.280 inch = 32.51 mm
Barrel Length : 5.0 inch = 127.0 mm
Predicted Data for Indicated Charges of the Following Powders.
Matching Maximum Pressure: 38500 psi, or 265 MPa
or a maximum loading ratio or filling of 100 %
USE ONLY FOR COMPARISON !
Code:
Powder type Filling/Loading Ratio Charge Charge Vel. Prop.Burnt P max P muzz B_Time
% Grains Gramm fps % psi psi ms
--------------------------------- -----------------------------------------------------------------
Alliant POWER PISTOL 94.0 8.9 0.58 1475 94.7 38500 7595 0.437 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
Accurate No.7 88.6 11.4 0.74 1467 85.7 38500 7673 0.440 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
Accurate No.5 70.3 9.5 0.61 1440 92.7 38500 7073 0.439 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
Accurate No.9 96.5 12.3 0.80 1439 78.6 38500 7333 0.440 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
Vihtavuori 3N37 95.1 8.8 0.57 1423 99.4 38500 6389 0.443 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
Vihtavuori N350 98.4 8.6 0.55 1415 99.5 38500 6219 0.442 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
Hodgdon HS-6 77.0 9.1 0.59 1414 98.3 38500 6381 0.443 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
Hodgdon Longshot 73.1 8.8 0.57 1409 99.2 38500 6210 0.444 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
Ramshot True Blue 72.4 8.8 0.57 1407 99.2 38500 6183 0.444 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
Winchester 540 71.3 8.8 0.57 1407 99.3 38500 6174 0.444 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
Alliant UNIQUE 95.7 7.4 0.48 1404 100.0 38500 5842 0.450 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
Winchester WAP 78.1 8.1 0.53 1395 100.0 38500 5800 0.444 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
Ramshot Silhouette 77.8 8.1 0.52 1394 100.0 38500 5772 0.445 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
Alliant BULLSEYE 83.3 6.6 0.43 1394 100.0 38500 5686 0.443 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
Vihtavuori N340 92.5 7.3 0.47 1366 100.0 38500 5271 0.449 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
Accurate No.2 68.0 6.8 0.44 1348 100.0 38500 5179 0.447 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
Hodgdon Universal 88.1 6.8 0.44 1346 100.0 38500 5011 0.459 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
Vihtavuori N330 88.2 6.9 0.44 1343 100.0 38500 4854 0.454 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
Alliant HERCO 100.0 7.5 0.48 1343 99.8 32605 5928 0.486 ! Near Maximum !
Vihtavuori 3N38 100.0 9.7 0.63 1325 85.2 30297 6411 0.493
Accurate Solo 1250 93.8 6.7 0.43 1323 100.0 38500 4651 0.453 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!Cartridge : 9 mm Luger +P (SAAMI)
Bullet : .355, 124, Hornady HP/XTP 35571
Useable Case Capaci: 9.270 grain H2O = 0.602 cm³
Cartridge O.A.L. L6: 1.169 inch = 29.69 mm
Barrel Length : 5.0 inch = 127.0 mm
Predicted Data for Indicated Charges of the Following Powders.
Matching Maximum Pressure: 38500 psi, or 265 MPa
or a maximum loading ratio or filling of 100 %
USE ONLY FOR COMPARISON !
Code:
Powder type Filling/Loading Ratio Charge Charge Vel. Prop.Burnt P max P muzz B_Time
% Grains Gramm fps % psi psi ms
--------------------------------- -----------------------------------------------------------------
Accurate No.7 98.7 9.1 0.59 1343 80.6 38500 5526 0.453 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
Accurate No.5 77.8 7.5 0.49 1321 88.6 38500 5174 0.456 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
Hodgdon HS-6 85.5 7.2 0.47 1305 95.7 38500 4771 0.459 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
Alliant POWER PISTOL 100.0 6.8 0.44 1304 89.3 34110 5342 0.477 ! Near Maximum !
Hodgdon Longshot 81.2 7.0 0.45 1302 97.2 38500 4675 0.459 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
Alliant BULLSEYE 92.7 5.3 0.34 1301 100.0 38500 4378 0.458 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
Winchester 540 79.2 7.0 0.45 1301 97.4 38500 4653 0.460 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
Ramshot True Blue 80.4 7.0 0.45 1301 97.3 38500 4657 0.460 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
Winchester WAP 86.9 6.5 0.42 1297 99.6 38500 4459 0.460 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
Ramshot Silhouette 86.6 6.4 0.42 1297 99.7 38500 4443 0.460 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
Hodgdon Universal 98.7 5.4 0.35 1263 100.0 38500 3848 0.473 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
Vihtavuori N330 98.9 5.5 0.36 1262 100.0 38500 3721 0.466 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
Vihtavuori 3N37 100.0 6.6 0.43 1252 96.1 32897 4575 0.490 ! Near Maximum !
Alliant UNIQUE 100.0 5.5 0.36 1245 99.8 32755 4314 0.499 ! Near Maximum !
Vihtavuori N340 100.0 5.7 0.37 1245 100.0 35928 3972 0.479 ! Near Maximum !
Accurate No.2 74.5 5.3 0.35 1241 99.4 38500 3903 0.466 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
Ramshot Zip 74.0 5.4 0.35 1229 100.0 38500 3499 0.471 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
Winchester 231 82.9 5.4 0.35 1229 100.0 38500 3499 0.471 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
Hodgdon HP38 81.0 5.3 0.34 1222 100.0 38500 3426 0.472 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
Accurate No.9 100.0 9.2 0.59 1209 68.7 30848 4654 0.503
Vihtavuori N350 100.0 6.2 0.40 1207 95.2 30108 4301 0.508
Vihtavuori N320 95.9 4.8 0.31 1204 100.0 38500 3211 0.479 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
Accurate Solo 1250 100.0 5.1 0.33 1200 100.0 35024 3434 0.488 ! Near Maximum !As you can see some powders work better for certain cartridges than others. These tables are both pegged at 38500 Psi and use a 5in barrel.
Last edited:
1SOW
Member
Very few of those 9mm luger loads would be useful for 9mm major. Too slow and/or not enough gas to operate the comp..
HS6, Silhouette and a few of the other powders are sometimes used.
165 is the minimum power factor for major. It has to be loaded higher than 165 so it will reliably chrono in hotter or colder climates AND generate enough gas to prevent bbl flip.
They really shoot nice when loaded correctly in a quality pistol designed for major 9mm, virtually zero muzzle rise and accurate.
I shot a match this morning with a friend who shoots 9mm major using compressed Silhouette loads under 124 gr bullets.
38 Super is the big dog, but 9mm luger brass is free and all the open class pistol makers have versions for the 9mm that shoot very very well..
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