9mm vs.45 recoil

[Warrior]

I have read many times where people switched from 45ACP to 9mm because the 9mm's recoil was so much "softer". I haven't found this to be the case at all. I have shot several 9mm handguns and have found most of them to recoil more than most 45's. The only "soft" recoiling 9mm handgun that I have shot was a Beretta Model 92. All other 9's have had a nasty kick to them that was much more unpleasant than my Glock 30 45ACP. Incidently, I have shot 45 ACP in several pistol makes and models, not just the Glock.

What gives? What am I doing wrong? In my experience a good 45 ACP is more pleasant to shoot than a 9mm.

 

[McCall911]

I personally don't think either the 9mm or the .45ACP is all that unpleasant in terms of recoil, but this could be because of the full-sized guns that I've shot in the two calibers. It seems to me the 9mm has a somewhat "snappy" recoil, where the .45 has a slightly "pushy" recoil, if that makes any sense. Theoretically, recoil has to do with the momentum (bullet weight times muzzle velocity) but I think there's more to it than this in terms of how recoil is transferred to the shooter's hand.

 

[Sam Adams]

It seems to me the 9mm has a somewhat "snappy" recoil, where the .45 has a slightly "pushy" recoil, if that makes any sense.

It does make sense. I've got one of each, and that is my sense of it.

 

[g56]

The only "soft" recoiling 9mm handgun that I have shot was a Beretta Model 92.

I think this comes down to the weight of the pistol, "most" 9mm pistols are smaller and lighter than a 1911 (as an example), as mentioned above, the Beretta 92 has somewhat less recoil because it's larger and heavier than most other 9mm pistols. I really like to shoot my 1911 in 45acp and my Beretta Model 92 in 9mm, and there is a noticeable difference in the recoil between the two, I also have some smaller, lighter 9mm pistols like the S&W model 908, which does have a pretty snappy recoil, less pleasant to shoot due to the recoil, but it's mainly my concealment pistol, so that's not a big consideration.

 

[XLMiguel]

Ah, physics - consider that the .45 has a typical case pressure of 18,000 psi pushing against a 230 gr bullet vs a 9 mm at 35,500 psi against a 115 -124 gr bullet . This makes things happen faster in the 9er, hence more of a sharp 'snap' vs the .45's longer pulse or throb.

Also compare the weight of a GM 1911 @ 39 oz vs a SIG 226 @ 28 oz or your Beretta 92 @ 34.5 oz (all weights empty). The inertia of the heavier pistol reduces the perceived recoil.

Now if you're up for some 'recoil' try a full house 158 gr. .357 in one of them S&W Scandium thingies Please use both hands.

 

[Stevie-Ray]

I have shot several 9mm handguns and have found most of them to recoil more than most 45's.

Huh? Man, I haven't found that at all. Even my G26 is a pipsqueak compared to all my .45s. Not that I find the .45s objectionable, quite the contrary. It's just that most 9s seem not much more than .22 to me in terms of recoil. It's one of the things that make them so much fun.

 

[Nando Aqui]

I regularly shoot two 9mm's: a S&W 5906 (stainless steel) and an H&K USP Compact (half plastic), and I can't tell any difference between them. The HK Compact is my wife's, she really likes to shoot it, and has never mentioned recoil. She has shot my .45 numerous times, and the only remark she has made is that it is too big for her hand.

Once a week I shoot an H&K USP Tactical .45 (also half plastic) and just started shooting a Kimber Stainless Target II. Does the Kimber 'kick' less than the HK? I can't really tell.

I agree with the 'sharper' 9mm vs. slower but perhaps more 'heavily' felt .45 ACP.

HOWEVER, I will shoot with just my right hand as well as just my left hand to practice for IDPA. The amount the .45's rise (waaaaaay off target) is considerably more than with the 9mm's.

So I can say that I can't really tell the 'kick' difference between the 9mm's and the 45's with a two-hand hold; but with a one-hand hold, the .45's sure have the 'rising edge'.

Alex

 

[robertbank]

The best comparison I can make is between my Para SSP in .45acp and my Trojan in 9MM vs my cz85 and hi-power. Thr Trojan is like shooting my .22 and if you want a soft recoiling 1911 you got to go try a 9MM version, Sweet! Teh felt recoil, I assume because of the weight is much more in the Hi-power and the cz over the trojan using the same loads. All my nines recoil less to me than my 1911's in .45acp.

 

[1911Tuner]

Recoil

Autopistols have recoil?

 

[farscott]

In the same platform (say the 1911), the 9x19 seems to have less recoil to me than the .45 ACP. The 9x19 recoil is a very quick event, yet the slide seems to move quite slowly. The .45 recoil is more of a shove and is a slower event than the 9x19 recoil.

 

[Jake]

My wife is the perfect example of prefering the .45 over the 9mm. When she started shooting I started her on a 9mm. She shot it for a few months until I talked her into trying a .45ACP. She had been afraid to try the .45 because of the size of the round and the noise. But once she tried it that's all she will shoot now. She says that the 9mm is "snappier" and that she prefers the slow, although harder "push" of a .45ACP.

 

[Edmond]

I can manage the .45acp quite well even though I'm a small guy (5'5", 130 lbs.). But the 9mm definitely has a slightly easier recoil. To me, the "snap" of the .40 S&W is awkward. Not unmanageable, just awkward.

 

[McCall911]

Also, I think there's more to the felt-recoil equation than just the momentum and the weight of the gun or the grip design. For instance: I owned a Dornaus & Dixon ("Bren Ten") Marksman some years ago, along with a S&W Shorty 45. Using the same ammo in both, the smaller, lighter S&W seemed to have less recoil than the heavier Marksman. The reason? Danged if I know!
Further, when I owned a Browning Hi Power, I noticed that 115-grain +P ammo had more of a "snap" to it than the 124-grain ball ammo I used. My theory has always been that this was due to the increased velocity of the +P, but that's just my theory.
I agree with the others that the .45ACP has more "kick" than the 9mm, but it's a different kind of "kick": Heavy and slow versus light and snappy. (Maybe??)

 

[Double Naught Spy]

Often when folks talk of comparing recoil, they are not just comparing recoil, but also platform. If you want to compare recoil, then you need to have the same platform for both calibers. In shooting a 9mm Commander size 1911 versus a .45 acp Commander size 1911, the .45 acp has quite a bit more recoil. Neither is horrible, but transitioning down to 9 mm from .45 acp after shooting several mags of .45 acp makes the 9 mm seem positively cushy. Transitioning up to the .45 acp after several mags of 9 mm makes the .45 acp seem less than pleasant. It all comes down to what you are used to shooting.

Just how important is comparing a trait equally using the same platform?
You could be given a full-sized steel 1911 and a lightweigth officer's 1911 and asked to shoot each. It would be easy to believe that the caliber in the officer's size gun was much more powerful because of the felt recoil when in truth, you could have been shooting the same .45 acp ammunition out of both guns.

 

[Frohickey]

9mm is a snappier recoil, vs 45ACP with a pushy recoil.

This is on a fullsize 9mm alloy frame (Sig P226) with 115gr FMJ with 5.6grs Unique behind it.

A fullsize 45ACP alloy frame (Sig P220) with 230gr FMJ with 5.6grs Unique is the compared 45ACP.

 

[joeyt]

Percieved Recoil

These are all valid reasons but I think Frohockey has it covered best. Snap vs. Push. JoeyT

 

[McCall911]

Yeah, Frohickey.

 

[Frohickey]

Actually, McCall911 said it first...

Actually, McCall911 said it first... snappy vs pushy.

The only thing I added was the load data of my reloads using the same amount of powder in both calibers.

The observation that I make is that 5.6grs of Unique behind each of the standard bullet weights is pretty much your standard load. 9mm is around 1200FPS, 45ACP is around 800FPS.

 

[Stevie-Ray]

Sounds like the wife and me. She gets snappy when I get pushy.

 

[McCall911]

I was just funnin, Fro.
LOL, Stevie. I get the same treatment!
Uh...ahem...from my wife, not yours.
I mean...I don't even know your wife!

 

[Pointman1776]

I find that the frame material makes more of a difference than the caliber, and sometimes even more than barrel length.

The difference between P226 and P226ST is pronounced. Ditto P220 and P220ST.

In fact, for me, my P220ST has less felt recoil than my Kimber Team Match II, and they are within an ounce or so of each other (both have rubber grips) and the Kimber is 5".

Next major difference would be the recoil springs...just a pound or two can make a dramatic difference.

That being said, I've found the 147 vs 185 difference greater than the 115 vs. 230 comparison when shooting my P226ST and P220ST. I've always found that counterintuitive and quite interesting.

 

[jlwatts3]

I agree with the snappy vs. puchy thing. What is the reason for this?

 

[Ala Dan]

My current comparison is between two SIG's; the .45 ACP P220A and
the P228 9m/m. While I haven't noticed a big difference in these two
caliber's, the .40 caliber P229 seems very unplesant. I've also owned
Glock's, BHP's, and Smith & Wesson 9m/m's and found all to be a joy
to shoot; as is the Springfield .45 caliber WW-II G.I. model.

Best Wishes,
Ala Dan, N.R.A. Life Member

 

[sundance43.5]

I really can't tell much difference between my Springfield Loaded .45 and my Glock 34 9mm. I think the Springfield is much more fun to shoot and I'm more accurate with it.

 

[cratz2]

Well, on paper, I think a standard pressure 115 or 124 gr 9mm load has about half the mathematical recoil as a standard pressure 230 Gr 45 load. And in general, I feel that full size all steel pistols shooting 9mm have softer but possibly flippier recoil than similar guns shooting 45s but the difference isn't as staggering as some might think.

I've owned many 1911s. I finally bought a 9mm Springfield 1911 and with the stock spring shooting 124 Gr +P Gold Dots, they were a lot closer to 45s than I had expected.

Having said all that, usually when I think of someone saying that a 9mm has a 'nasty kick', I kinda wanna point at them and laugh at them.