9x23 or 9x25?

[patentnonsense]

Now that BarSto is starting to offer 9x25 drop-in barrels for 10mm pistols, I just ran across a 9x23 Winchester -
help me choose!

I like the idea of an oversexed 9mm round, and these would be my first two choices (yah yah I know there are others) -

which would you suggest?

9x25 factory ammo is available from doubletap.com, 9x23 means handloading - but how do they compare for energies etc.? If they're equal 9x25 is going to be more convenient to buy ammo for, but I've heard that 9x23 has potential for near-rifle pressures.

Thanks,

 

[popeye]

What kind of gun are you hoping to use? I had a Colt Delta that I bought a Barsto .40 cal barrel for a few years back. It was anything but drop in. I wound up selling the gun and barrel to a friend and he sent barrel and gun back to Barsto to be fitted. I still have a .38 super Colt with a 9X23 barrel for it. I lost the fasination with 9X23 and haven't shot it in years. If the gun you plan to use is a 1911 style will extraction/ejection still be reliable? I realize my post does not contain info you wanted so just ignore it if you want to.

 

[atblis]

misc

Isn't the 9x25 a bottle necked cartridge? If so, I would go with the 9x23 because I believe bottlenecked pistol cartridges can be a pain in the but to reload.

 

[JShirley]

You should be able to buy 9x23 from Winchester.

124 grain JSP is reportedly over 1500 fps typically.

125 grain Silvertip is about 1450.

John

 

[eerw]

generally nothing is ever drop in..for a round like 9x25 or 9x23..I would want everything fitted..too much pressure to be dealing with loose tolerances..

both caliber should be available...limited in choices, but available..

the 9x25s I have shot..I found them loud and after a lot of shooting..very fatigueing.

I still have 9x23s...for USPSA, IDPA and carry..am pretty happy with its performance and operation in my guns...

 

[Otherguy Overby]

9x23

I've no experience with 9x25 so I can't comment.

However 9x23 is a GREAT round.

You'd probably have to use the web for shopping 'cuz few stores stock it.

BTW, most any question you might have regarding 9x23 has already been asked and answered in the forums at:
http://www.pistolsmith.com/

there is also http://9x23.com/

And yes, I've a kinda 1911 in 9x23 and it is superb.

Did I say 9x23 is a great round?

 

[grendelbane]

I have no experience with the 9 x 25, but I do have a Delta Elite with a 357 SIG barrel. If you load the 357 SIG to the same length as the 9 x 25, it will perform almost as well.

I also have a 9 x 23 mm. I would prefer it for serious uses.

Reloading bottleneck pistol cartridges is nowhere near as much trouble as some people claim. At least that has been my experience on a single stage press.

It does seem easier to get the 9 x 23 mm to run, though. Both cartridges offer impressive ballistics. In fact, they both will push JHP bullets faster than they were designed to be driven.

Both of mine are standard barrels. With a comp, the 9 x 25 might have a more noticeable advantage.

If I had it all to do over again, and I could only have one, it would be the 9 x 23mm.

 

[Sean Smith]

9x23 is probably the perfect 1911 cartridge, really. 10+1 capacity, feeds better than anything else in the platform thanks to that nice taper, and hot ballistics. Winchester has factory ammo for it too.

 

[ClarkEMyers]

9X23 will be easier to buy ammunition for.

If they're equal 9x25 is going to be more convenient to buy ammo for, but I've heard that 9x23 has potential for near-rifle pressures

.

They are not equal and 9X23 will be easier to buy ammunition for - Winchester is a leading brand with wide distribution; Corbin also loads for 9X23.

It is true the 9X23 runs safely at the highest pressure of any 1911 cartridge I've ever personally played with. It is equally true the larger case capacity bottleneck 9X25 will give higher velocities with the same bullets than the 9X23.

For my money the 9X23 is a better cartridge for general use and especially for a carry gun. I'd add that more factory guns have been available in 9X23; suggesting the 9X23 has more versatility.

For my money the lighter bullets in the 9X25 might be inferior to the 10mm for hunting yet offer no advantage over the 9X23 for most purposes.

If you want a faster light bullet load than the 9X23 offers then obviously you must burn more powder in a larger case and use the 9X25 - which will then offer reduced capacity more noise and recoil and be harder on the pistol.

Personally I'm immensely pleased with my 9X23 and have no use at all for a 9X25 - wouldn't mind a nice long slide 10MM though.

 

[patentnonsense]

Thanks, very helpful replies!
And I've run across a 1911 in 9x23, but are there any factory 9x23 double-stacks (short of the competition guns from STI etc.)?

And doubletap.com lists 9x25 velocities as 1800fps with 115gr, 2000 with 95gr - but that's from a 6"barrel! I understand the arguments against bottleneck cartridges, but thatsa some spicy meatball...

Thanks much!

 

[TaxPhd]

"feeds better than anything else in the platform thanks to that nice taper."

I thought that 9x23 (and 38 supercomp, etc.) were straight walled cases.

Agree that it is fantastic. My IPSC open gun is in .38 supercomp, and I love it.



Scott

 

[Wakal]

38 Supercomp is a straight case; 9 by 23 has a (very slight) taper.

I chamber my Open guns in 38 Supercomp, and then ream them out to 9 by 23. Then they run both

BTW, my carry gun is a STI Commander in 9 by 23. Love it.


Alex

 

[patentnonsense]

And BTW what's the pressure rating for 9x23?
(Does it have a SAAMI spec?)

10mm is 37500, so I assume that would be a baseline for its wildcat 9x25?

Thanks,

 

[Sean Smith]

9x23 Winchester is rated for something sick like 55,000 psi.

(Note I didn't say "xyz Supercomp," but "9x23 Winchester"...)

 

[PO2Hammer]

The 9X25 is based on the 10mm case which fits your existing extractor. The 9X23 has a slightly smaller rim.
BTW, what pistol are we talking about?
If it's a Glock 20, the 9X25 is the clear choice. The magazine, extractor, ejector, breach face are already to go.
If it's a 1911, either one is very do-able, but the 9X23 would require at least new mags.
If you're a handloader, you may just stop at the 10mm. What a great round!
My Glock 20 fires 10mm and .40s&w with conversion. It's a great combo and I don't need anything other than a barrel swap. Now that I'm rolling my own, I'm looking closly at the 9X25. You should be able to outperform the 357sig at much lower pressures, with plenty of neck for proper tension, something the 357sig is rather short on.

 

[ClarkEMyers]

9X23 will wash out barrels with light bullets I'd expect the 9X25 to do the same

9X23 will wash out barrels with light bullets; I'd expect the 9X25 to do the same.

My current understanding is that like the .357 Max a light bullet in front of a lot of slower powder will pretty much blast the throat. I have never played with a 9X25 and would welcome comments from those who have.

Shooting the 90 grain, I used the Sierra, I am reminded of Neal Knox on the subject of his rail gun in .220 Swift - it will shoot [don't remember his exact words some southern superlative for very well indeed] but not for very long.

Currently the 9X23 is not SAAMI to the best of my knowledge.

On the other hand I was just past Sportsman's Warehouse and they did have in stock the 9X23 Winchester Silvertip but not the cheaper lead bullet load. Very friendly people and well up on the interesting and odd ball. I do normally buy case lots off the web myself though.

 

[Big Mike]

I think I've read on the CZ forum that people have shot 9x23 out of .38 Super Witnesses? Mike

 

[ClarkEMyers]

Be careful doing this at home or anyplace else

The 9mm Largo Blazer makes a commercial light load for the 9X23 pistols as will as feeding lots of mostly Spanish pistols. For an Urban Legend read the story of the multi-caliber 9mm pistols and the fact that they weren't. The mostly Spanish pistols marked 9mm/.38 were often described by gunshop commandos as suitable for .38 Super or for 9mm as the markings might imply but actually did not intend.

Similarly there are many different cartridges which might fire in the same pistol. Many pistols are built as noted above in this thread to shoot .38Super and 9X23 in the same barrel. Almost by definition these don't have a SAAMI specification chamber as e.g. taking a SAAMI .38Super chamber and expanding the rear of the chamber and lengthening the throat. Quite commonly an additional 9X19 barrel is added to the mix, including some Colt factory pistols. All loads of fun.

For my money I'm happy to have a carry gun that is optimized for 9X23 without any compromise and no effort to make it multi-caliber. For a range gun then versatility including the ability to use whateve ammunition and cases come to hand is a real plus. Rumor has it some folks use a 9X19 in IDPA because the brass is cheap enough to leave on the ground with no qualms but carry a 9X23 with brass they don't want to leave scatterd.

Lots of mix and match is possible - try the .45ACP in a .30-'06 with a Mauser extractor to hold the head against the bolt face for an interesting conversation piece if you recover the bullet. But notice the suggestion that firearms are best used as the manufacturer or maker intended.

 

[MCNETT]

I have more than 25,000rds. through one of my BarSto barrels in 9X25. It looks like it is new. The myths about eroding the throat or the chamber are exactly that....myths. I like both the 9X25 and the 9X23, but the ballistic edge definitely goes to the 9X25. They are both loud and neither of them really have much recoil. DoubleTap Ammunition is the only manufacturer to ever load the 9X25 commercially and it will remain a permanent fixture of our lineup. the 9X23 may make it into the lineup, but not until the end of the year.
-Mike

 

[grendelbane]

DoubleTap Ammunition is the only manufacturer to ever load the 9X25 commercially and it will remain a permanent fixture of our lineup. the 9X23 may make it into the lineup, but not until the end of the year.

That is one good piece of news, and one potentially good piece of news!

I don't have a 9 x 25, but if I had a reamer I would be tempted to convert my 357 SIG barrel. Ever since I built my 9 x 23, I have less interest in my 357 SIG Delta Elite. (She has been a problem child, now that I have her running, I naturally lose interst.)

Winchester 9 x 23 Silvertips extrude primer metal into the firing pin tunnel. Or, at least the one box I bought did. It may be from an early production run. The 124 grain WW whitebox 9 x 23 mm runs fine, as do my handloads. It would be nice to have a factory load with a nice hollow point bullet that I could depend on. (It wouldn't hurt if that bullet were 147 grains).

Still, I think that the 9 x 23 mm is the more practical choice. Not that practicality is always the over riding decision maker with me.