A .223 reloading question

[Albatross]

I'm loading 25 grains of varget into a number of different once shot .223 cases with 55 grain soft point hornady bullets. My calipers show that the bullets are the same overall length as black hills made ammo (approximately 54.4mm).

The rounds function in that they chamber and when fired cycle normally, but when I attempt to eject the round without firing they are stuck hard(I can force them to eject by whacking the charging handle against a fixed object).

Anyway, this sort of makes me nervous. I'd like to remedy the problem so any thoughts, recommendations and suggestions would be appreciated.

 

[Rancho Relaxo]

Have you checked your brass length? You may need to trim your brass.

 

[Sport45]

It's a good bet you are not getting the case fully sized. Adjust your sizing die down a bit. The bottom of the sizing die should firmly contact the top of the shell holder at the top of the ram's stroke with a case in the shell holder.

If you are shooting an AR always full length size your cases.

Buy a case gauge. Lyman and Wilson make good ones. Your case should drop fully into the gauge and set flush with the base. (Sometimes you have to file extractor burs from the rim.)

 

[Sport45]

Double post deleted

 

[Albatross]

I am shooting the bullets out of an AR15.

I think I am currently full length resizing the cases. I lube them up, stick them in the press and the case completely enters the die. I'm pretty sure I followed the directions correctly but I'll definitely adjust the sizing die down some and see what happens.

I don't exactly know what I'm doing. I didn't actually buy any of this equipment or reloading supplies. A buddy of mine dropped it all off a couple of years ago and I thought I'd figure it out during spring break. So, if I am doing something dangerous please let me know.

Is it ok for me to shoot the rest of the bullets I loaded that eject hard?

p.s. I will look into getting a case gauge.

 

[Otto]

I am shooting the bullets out of an AR15.

I think I am currently full length resizing the cases...I don't exactly know what I'm doing.

Get a LE Wilson gage, it's easiest way to correctly set your headspace.
https://www.midwayusa.com/eproductpage.exe/showproduct?saleitemid=456614

 

[Shimitup]

A full length die is likely not enough, Fairly typical for full length sized brass to stick in semi auto chambers as I recall, I suspect you may need a small base full length die.

 

[Doug b]

Have you trimmed your brass to trim length? If not it may not be safe to shoot.

If you crimped they could be over crimped or both.

 

[Borg]

Just put a little lube inside the neck before sizing.
If there is too much resistance from not having lube there, the expander ball stretches the shoulder, changing the headspace and making it difficult to chamber and or extract a live round.
Borg
Unless you do crimp too much

 

[NCsmitty]

Is the cartridge loading and the bolt going to full battery without an assist initially? The sizing die needs to touch the shell holder when the case is run into the die to full stroke.
What is your COAL? Any rifling marks on the bullet once ejected?

NCsmitty

 

[rcmodel]

First, you do not need a Small Base die to load for an AR-15!

Second, screw the sizing die down until it contacts the shell holder, then screw it down another 1/8 turn or so until you can feel a definite "bump" when the press linkage cams over at full extension.
This takes care of all the press slop & frame flex.

Now, take one of the offending rounds and color it with a black magic-marker.
Chamber it, and see what is tight where.

Until you know that, all of us are just guessing at the real cause.

Dollars to donuts though, you don't have the sizing die screwed down far enough to really full-length size the cases.

rc

 

[ForneyRider]

The case gauge is handy. I have one for 45 ACP, and it was very handy.

RCmodel has the good instructions for the full length die adjustment.

When you pull those rounds out, see where the scoring is.

I use 1.76 to trim the brass, and 2.5in COL or less, depending on the bullet. 2.55 I use to single load the 75gr Hornady BTHP. But anything over 2.5in has been problematic in the PMAG.

 

[Albatross]

Thanks for the help, just finished a round of midterms and have found the time to try the suggestions.

I ordered a case gauge from midway, it'll be along in a few days. I also used a magic marker to see where the tightness is located. When inspected after extraction some marker has been removed around the shoulder of the case. The marker isn't removed anywhere else (aside from some scratches due to being stripped from the magazine).

I've also been chambering a number of other rounds. Not all the rounds extract hard, some extract rather easily and others extract as a commercial round.

Does that mean anything?

 

[unloaded]

Did you mark the very end of the brass, where it meets the bullet? If it's not trimmed it can be getting crimped in the chamber and unsafe to shoot. Are you crimping the loads? If you are seating and crimping in the same step. Sometimes the die starts crimping before the bullet is comletely seated, this will cause your sized case to bulge somewhere, making it tight in the chamber. When you get your gauge check sized brass and loaded rounds.

peace.
unloaded

 

[uncle joe]

same problems

I recently bought an ar15 and instead of buying dies, I begged a set from a relative that I knew didn't reload 223 any more. He owned a mod 700 in 223 that he had sold. I said all that to say this, you DO need a small base die set to reload for an AR, especially if you use brass other than newly fired in your own gun. I had loaded several rounds and like yours, some of mine would not come out of the chamber without great effort. Since buying a new sb die set, I have had no problems. PS if you use carbide dies, you don't need to bump the bottom of the die with the shell holder, carbide is very hard and brittle, it will break or chip with very little effort.

 

[Black07GT]

It sounds like they are not trimmed properly. I would also run a set of mic's over the entire length of brass after you seat and crimp. If your crimping die is in to far it will baloon then area right behind the shoulder, in extreme cases it will put a dimple in it from crushing it.

 

[rcmodel]

you DO need a small base die set to reload for an AR,

Well, your experience is certainly different then mine.

I have been reloading .223 since 1970 or 71. About all I have ever reloaded has been mil-sup GI 5.56mm brass shot in M-16's.

I have loaded for Colt AR-15's, Ruger Mini-14's, and CZ-527 bolt actions.

All I have ever used, or needed, is the RCBS Standard dies I bought in 1970.

My contention is that about 90% of the problem people have is not adjusting the sizing die down enough to take all the flex out of the press. So, the shoulder is not getting pushed back where it belongs.

The other 10% is caused by buckled shoulders you cannot see, caused by crimping too much without trimming.

Perhaps if you had a tight chambered .223 Rem (Not 5.56mm) match gun, maybe a Small Base die would be necessary?
Maybe?

rc

 

[Walkalong]

I reload for a Mini-14, and a couple of AR's. Never used a small base die. I have run into trouble a couple of times by over crimping a bit and buckling the shoulder a hair. (Which is all it takes in a tight chamber)

I finally broke down and bought a .223 case gauge after 20 or so years. It is indeed handy. It shows you exactly where you are at as far as headspace (Assuming an in spec chamber) and OAL of the brass.

I agree with rcmodel, unless you are shooting a very tight chambered match gun, I don't believe the small base die is needed. Perhaps it is handy then.

The round in the pic looks OK, but the shoulder is collapsed just a tad. It will fall in and out of my Mini-14 chamber, but could cause trouble in a tighter chamber.

 

[FROGO207]

I reload mil surplus for an ar 15 and two mini 14's as well as a h&r handi rifle, never had trouble with poor extraction unless extended usage between cleanings and a hot barrel combo. I use standard lee dies and their factory crimp die as a separate operation. Is it possible that there is buildup in the chamber?

 

[AirplaneDoc]

I have never used small base dies either. I also load spent lake city, and have never had a problem Just make sure your FL sizing die is set properly, cases are trimmed and verify with a case gauge.

AD

 

[Albatross]

When I marked the brass I colored it entirely. There doesn't seem to be any removal of marker from anywhere on the neck, even on the very top (the rim of the neck). The tightness is definitely originating at the shoulder.

Btw, I've readjusted the die just as outlined by Rcmodel and when I work the lever it feels (and looks) the same. It also produces bullets that measure the same.

Also, I am not doing any crimping. I do have a crimping die, but I read it was unnecessary. I plan on incorporating it into the system sometime in the future, if I'm load bullets for something beyond plinking at steel.

Finally, I have not trimed the brass in any way. It has only been fired one time and when measured with calipers it is the same length as brass that has never been fired. I was told that trimming was not an absolute necessity, just that trimming allows for more uses of the brass. Is that true?

edited to add: I am using a bushmaster with an 11.5 inch barrel. It was not made for target/precision shooting. I am assuming its chamber is of typical tightness as it was bought from the factory.

 

[rodregier]

Just to ask the obvious, you're cleaning the chamber occasionally?

I've loaded for the Mini-14 and AR15 pattern rifles, standard dies work just fine. The Wilson gages for bottleneck cartridges are really handy. I like the Redding dies with the carbide expander ball upgrade, no need to inside lube necks and it minimizes expander ball stretch.

 

[rcmodel]

Well, maybe you just have a Bushy with tight headspace. My buddy had a Carbon-15 from them that would not chamber some factory loads.

Or it could be your sizing die is slightly on the plus side.

Any chance you know someone else who reloads for .223 that you could try thier sizing die?

At any rate, the Black Marker test proved the shoulder is not getting set back far enough, and a small base die will not cure that.

Another thought is, make sure your guns bolt carrier & cam pin are well lubricated. A dry cam & pin could make opening more difficult.

rc

 

[Walkalong]

I like the Redding dies with the carbide expander ball upgrade, no need to inside lube necks and it minimizes expander ball stretch.

That is what I am using. The carbide ball is great.

 

[Albatross]

How should I go about setting the shoulder back far enough?

Or should I just wait for the head space gauge and see if the bullets are within the correct specifications?