A Billion Bullets -- Where the US Buys Them From

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rc135

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A BILLION BULLETS FROM THE EAST. (www.StrategyPage.com) 9 Nov 2007: In the last two years, the United States has purchased over a billion rounds of 5.56mm ammo from Taiwan. Before September 11, 2001, the U.S. Department of Defense bought 350 million rounds of 5.56mm, 7.62mm and 12.7mm of ammo a year. Most of this was 5.56mm, for M-16s, M-4s and light machine-guns. By 2004, that was up to 1.2 billion rounds. This increased to 1.5 billion rounds in 2005 and is now close to two billion rounds a year.

The U.S. Army has one very large ammo factory at the Alliant Lake City plant in Independence, Missouri. This plant normally produces 1.2 billion rounds a year, although that has since been expanded to 1.5 billion. Additional ammo has been obtained by, first, drawing down war reserve stocks. Taking over half a billion rounds from those stocks, plus buying even more from civilian manufacturers (in the U.S., Canada, Taiwan and Israel), working round the clock and putting mothballed production facilities to work has kept the troops supplied. The current high production levels will remain until the war reserve stocks are rebuilt. In the meantime, training will continue to use more ammo than in the past. In the 1990s, the use of live ammo in training had been allowed to decline. That has been changed. Ammo usage in training will remain at high levels even after American troops leave Afghanistan and Iraq, at least until the lessons learned this time around are forgotten.


To be is to do -- Socrates
To do is to be – Sartre
Doo be doo be doo -- Sinatra

Ethics are for the well-fed.

Keep him in the dark, but point him toward the light.

They're too busy lookin' over their shoulders to look ahead.
 
While some may say it does not make good economic sense in our "global ecnomy, I've always thought it was a bad idea to rely on foreign/offshore sources for defense material including arms and ammunition.
 
The sad thing is that anyone wanting to start an ammo manufacturing plant here in the States to meet some of that demand would face so much red tape and government intervention that it would not be worth it. We HAVE to rely on foreign supply because our own government makes it too difficult to do otherwise.
 
not exactly

There is some red tape and a lot of liability insurance, but the real thing stopping everyone from starting there own ammo biz is $$$. The machines to produce one caliber, at high production rates, cost about $4 million. This doesn't include the cost of powder, hazmat fees, lead, copper, primers, etc.

Why are we buying so much ammo from overseas? Slave labor. If you start a plant here with 12 workers, you pay fed tax, state tax, county tax, welfare, insurance, disability, and a minimum wage. The same over in Taiwan? $10 per day per person, if you're nice to your workers. If your plant in the US blows up, you get sued for your life. Taiwan? You build another plant.
 
Why are we buying so much ammo from overseas? Slave labor.

brighamr, I was with you until the "slave labor" comment. Obviously you've never been to Taiwan. What is your basis for such a declaration? Avg. income in Taiwan is over 10x your guess. After Australia & New Zealand, Taiwan is the most democratic nation in Asia (more than Japan or Korea or Singapore).

Taiwan offers a level of technology and manufacturing quality that the USA regularly takes advantage of.

The real reason why the US Military sources ammo from overseas during times of war is because they know that wars eventually end. We may need all this extra capacity now, but the day after a war has ended, everyone in the munitions plant would be fired.
 
CWL - didn't mean to offend. My sister in law is from Taiwan, and that is where I base my information from. She has personally told me about working in factories at the age of 10. (This was 20 years ago, so it may have completely changed since then).

My other reason for stating slave labor: call any high volume ammunition production company and ask them where there casings are made.... and why. The three I have personally talked to stated they buy from overseas due to cheap labor. Maybe I should've said cheap labor instead of slave labor, but IMO it's nearly the same thing...
 
Also, Taiwan and the US have a pretty good arms trade going on. U.S. has sold a bunch of arms to Taiwan.

Once you get into U.S./Taiwan/China politics you'll understand how close another war could erupt.
 
Slave labor and cheap labor are definitely not the same thing. Different costs of living, different standards of living, different labor standards, different expectations all figure into the labor rates paid. We in the US think that just because people in other countries are paid less than we are that they are somehow taken advantage of, but that is just not true.

Also, I think that some of the US based manufacturers would be more than willing to invest in additional capacity were it not so difficult to do so. I know of one company that would like to produce more rifles and rifle accessories, but they can't because the state EPA regs are too strict, so they are looking to sell off their technology or move to a different state.
 
I thought everyone bought their bullets from Taiwan. Seriously though, where does WWB come from? (Besides Walmart...and, I really am curious, cause I don't know)
 
I thought everyone bought their bullets from Taiwan. Seriously though, where does WWB come from? (Besides Walmart...and, I really am curious, cause I don't know)
Hint:
logo_USA.gif

Can't speak for all their components but it seems they're at the very least assembled here.
 
The reason WWB is so inexpensive is because of the large quantities the Wal-Mart corporation buys them in. Wal-Mart passes down this savings down to the consumer in order to be very competitive.
 
Hurrah! Can anyone say 'excess capacity' and 'price competition' ?

Once things have calmed down a bit in Iraq, we should have piles and piles of cheap ammo pouring into the country.
 
Separate identity
On September 30, 2007, Taiwan's ruling Democratic Progressive Party approved a resolution asserting separate identity from China and called for the enactment of a new constitution for a "normal country" . It called also for general use of "Taiwan" as the island's name, without abolishing its formal name, the Republic of China. [14]

Hmmmm:uhoh:
 
Management 101 - You don't outsource strategic competencies. Granted 5.56 ammunition isn't strategic in the nuclear sense but munitions manufacturing is still a strategic necessity.
 
Also, Taiwan and the US have a pretty good arms trade going on. U.S. has sold a bunch of arms to Taiwan.

Once you get into U.S./Taiwan/China politics you'll understand how close another war could erupt.

Yeah, I can't imagine China being too happy with the current level of U.S. "interference" in what it considers a "self-governed protectorate". Only problem for China is that the second they try to assert control over that island we've got several Army and AF divisions in South Korea and Japan that can respond practically immediately, as well as half a dozen carrier groups in the Pacific that can stage airstrikes within a couple of days and make port in Taiwan in less than a week. However, China's closer and can bring a LOT of manpower to bear; if China invades Taiwan you're looking at a WWIII scenario (probably conventional, possibly escalating to nuclear).
 
R. Cylinder,

Some .223 WWB is made in Israel, you can tell by the "A" suffix on the stock number. Q3131 is Olin-Winchester, Q3131A is IMI. Or was, I don't know the supply situation now.
 
I don't believe China has the sea or air power at this time to do a forced entry invasion of Taiwan. Taiwan does have a pretty a good airforce, and F15's from Japan aren't too far away either.
 
Once things have calmed down a bit in Iraq, we should have piles and piles of cheap ammo pouring into the country.
I thought the ATF wasn't aproving importation of military surplus ammo. Maybe it's just a 7.62x54r thing.
 
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