A Case for guns in Churches

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usmarine0352_2005

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I accidentally posted this in the wrong forum earlier. To bad it was too late for 1 woman. But many more were saved.



This is definitely a good example for when someone brings up no guns in churches.



http://www.thonline.com/news/nationa...1ac6ec6f0.html


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Off-duty cop guns down out-of-control driver who pulled gun, killed woman

A pastor's mother is shot while coming to the aid of a man who crashed his car outside a Colorado church.

Posted: Tuesday, April 24, 2012 12:00 am


AURORA, Colo. -- A man crashed his car outside a Colorado church and opened fire on people who had come to his aid, fatally wounding the mother of the church's pastor before an off-duty officer attending the service shot him dead.

The pastor of Destiny Center Church, Delono Straham, said the woman killed Sunday was his mother, Josephine Echols, a nurse from Flint, Mich., who most recently had been working with dialysis patients at a local hospital. She had gone outside to see if anyone needed medical attention.
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In theory, it can be a case for anywhere that guns are not allowed. Law abiding citizens get killed by the non-law abiding criminals. I really don't know how many people have to die before out stupid governments figure this out, but the number keeps rising.
 
I see the state's forbidding guns in churches to be a first amendment violation.

In Michigan, "Any property or facility owned or operated by a church, synagogue, mosque, temple, or other place of worship, unless the presiding official allows concealed weapons" is a pistol free area. I suppose that is one one step better. I will leave it to the religious to decide whether it is enough better.
 
My CCW instructor trained a couple of local church security teams as a public service.
 
what's special about as church?
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I agree with BFD on that. I arm myself anywhere I go (where it is legal). If I magically knew where I was safe, I'd move there and never leave.

Some churches here in NC can become illegal to carry, period. There are several that have become accredited full time schools, so the same policies apply as to regular schools.
 
I know a minister who packs. Most of his congregation does too and that church is the wrong one to attack. I wonder why it isn't called St. John (Moses Browning)?
 
I always carry at church. While at church one day, my wife nudged on my side and realized I was carrying. She then whispered in my ear, "You don't need that thing here..". I just looked down at her and smiled. That said it all.
 
Criminals break laws. Most such laws aide in prosecution not protection or prevention.
 
I always carry at Church, there's no magical bubble anywhere in the world that keeps you 100% safe. I hear of lots of Pastors that carry too.
 
A church is private property.

The decision to allow or forbid guns or anything else for that matter should be left up to the members who catually OWN the church, not the state.
 
A church is private property.

The decision to allow or forbid guns or anything else for that matter should be left up to the members who catually OWN the church, not the state.
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I completely agree, but there are many things that should be that aren't :banghead:
 
And recognition of individual rights (like the 2A), would solve many of the problems that we discuss here on THR.....Common sense doesn't get us too far these days does it? :confused:
 
The violation of the first ammendment comment above I believe is related to the fact that the government shouldn't be regulating what goes on in a church.

Allaround, you are absolutely right. "Gun Free Zones" do nothing (unless you have quality security which screens everyone, such as with my local courthouse) to prevent Joe Schmoe from carrying inside, concealed or not. The only difference is that someone like me, a law-abiding citizen, will disarm before going there. The criminal won't.

Coalman is right, gun free zone laws simply give another law to use in prosecution, which I think is unneccessary if someone is on trial for murder. They do nothing to prevent crime commited with guns in those areas.
 
I would love to be able to carry at church, but several states have laws against it even with a CHL; Texas included.
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You may carry at your church in Texas unless a proper 30.06 sign is posted.

From the Texas penal code:

Sec. 46.035. UNLAWFUL CARRYING OF HANDGUN BY LICENSE HOLDER.

. . .

(b) A license holder commits an offense if the license holder intentionally, knowingly, or recklessly carries a handgun under the authority of Subchapter H, Chapter 411, Government Code, regardless of whether the handgun is concealed, on or about the license holder's person:

. . .

(4) on the premises of a hospital licensed under Chapter 241, Health and Safety Code, or on the premises of a nursing home licensed under Chapter 242, Health and Safety Code, unless the license holder has written authorization of the hospital or nursing home administration, as appropriate;

(5) in an amusement park; or

(6) on the premises of a church, synagogue, or other established place of religious worship.
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If you get down to letter (i), you'll see that:

(i) Subsections (b)(4), (b)(5), (b)(6), and (c) do not apply if the actor was not given effective notice under Section 30.06.
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Ergo, your church is the same as most other buildings in the state . . . no correctly posted sign, no problem.
 
Ryanxia said:
I always carry at Church, there's no magical bubble anywhere in the world that keeps you 100% safe. I hear of lots of Pastors that carry too.
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I'm one of em! Also teach ccw and awareness courses at the church building. We teach our people (women especiall)y to pray for peace, but carry protection.
 
It is legal to carry in Arizona in a church. I am a church officer and I carry every Sunday. I suspect I'm not the only one.
 
Once again it is brought up...if it is Concealed, then why worry about if it is "illegal"...God forbid should you ever need to use it, then what happens happens. I for one know of many that carry, and feel real well about all in our congregation that if anything were to happen, things would be taken care of with minimal innocent victims.
 
what's special about as church?
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I can think of one thing: organised religion is one of the greatest means of separation of individual points of view, and one of the biggest sources of animosity between different peoples, in the world. So, frankly, as alarmist as it may sound, as far as places where you could experience violence based solely on association, i'd place houses of worship high up on the list, particularly if you're a member of a congregation which is contrary to the majority socio-religious tendencies in your region; see historical outbursts of violence towards baptist churches with mostly black patronage in the american south, or jewish synagogues and schools internationally.

An awful lot of extremists are "religious extremists"...
 
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