A common problem: Insufficient Information

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GJSchulze

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I've been a member of this forum and a couple others for several months. I read this one thread where a new member was having a problem chambering his reload. He said he was using a 9mm 124gr JHP with an OAL of 1.09, had three dies for his press, but not the fourth. He asked what could do this.

I've seen this lack of information in many other posts. We need to encourage posters to always provide all the information. It boggles my mind that anyone thinks they can get a good answer with so little info. People try, but with no info, you get incorrect or even dangerous advice. In this case someone suggested reducing the OAL to 1.05. Quickload told me that he was already close to max pressure and reducing OAL as suggested would have increased the pressure to 11,000 psi over max.

I'm just waiting for someone to post "I have a problem, what's going wrong?":rolleyes:

My first thought is that when there isn't enough info people should ask pertinent questions and then not make any suggestions until they have the whole story. Can anyone think of any solutions to this problem?
 
Interesting topic.
You are correct, it is not uncommon for someone to ask a question and leave out a lot of important info. That just comes with the territory. Most of the the members here realize this and do what they can to get the OP to provide the missing information.

What is frustrating for me is when the OP continues to ignore the questions that need to be answered, or worse, leaves and never returns to finish his/her original post. Often times the thread goes on for several pages and the OP has not answered a single question.
 
when you come to an internet forum for advice, you get what you pay for
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True, but an inexperienced poster may not know that. In fact, I think a lot of people don't know that. But that doesn't solve the problem. Bad suggestions can lead to a disastrous result. We can't eliminate the problem, but by insisting on complete information maybe we can keep someone from hurting themselves.
 
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I suspect that, in many cases, if the OP knew what information was important/required, he/she often wouldn't have to ask the question to begin with.
 
If we could get all OPs to provide sufficient info to solve their problems on the first go round, we could also get all folks to stop offering solutions without sufficient info. Neither is going to happen on the internet.
 
he/she often wouldn't have to ask the question to begin with
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So what you are saying is that the poster doesn't know what he doesn't know. Fair enough and probably where a lot of people stop thinking. I'd suggest something in the FAQ, but if you're thinking enough to read through that, you probably have sense to offer all your information. Maybe this happens because in day to day life when people ask questions about a problem, they get immediate feedback and questions, so they aren't used to offering up everything in the beginning.

That leads me back to us, the people that reply. Instead of guessing what the person means, ask for more info first, if it's lacking, before offering an explanation that may be wrong or even dangerous. Be aware that your experience may not match the OPs situation.
 
What is frustrating for me is when the OP continues to ignore the questions that need to be answered
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Yes:banghead: I've noticed that and I find it very aggravating. I've seen this with emails I send to people. I ask a couple of questions and only get an answer to the first. Maybe mobile devices and attention span have something to do with this.
 
QL does not give accurate pressure calculations for the 9mm. I run that load at that OAL. It is inline with published data.
 
Not knowing the need to provide more info than what is obvious goes hand in hand with the lack of the posters understanding of reloading nuances thus causing the problem in the first place IMHO. The internet seems to be a place for people to assume that an instant, CORRECT, resolution of a problem will happen just by posting some things they observed. Mostly this is not the case in a reloading forum---kind of like reading a book with every fourth word left a blank.:rolleyes: We all can only look at the post and do what we can to coax out more info then give it our best shot at a good resolution.
 
QL does not give accurate pressure calculations for the 9mm
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But how do you know that QL is wrong about the pressure and why just for 9mm? I did say that 6gr was under the max, but decreasing OAL would compress the load and raise the pressure to dangerous levels. I just think QL going to be accurate enough to be careful. But let's leave it at that since I only used that as an example. The person gave virtually no useful information and also hasn't given any more since then.
 
Not knowing the need to provide more info than what is obvious goes hand in hand with the lack of the posters understanding of reloading nuances thus causing the problem in the first place
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I couldn't agree more, especially when a mistake could cause injury. One pet peeve I have is that unless the caliber is stated, you may have no idea if the person is reloading for rifle and pistol; the two are different. I see this in books and magazine articles, too. In general, much of what a rifle or bullseye shooter does for reloading isn't necessary for pistol. It's not that it will hurt anything if you trim pistol cases, but it's confusing to newbies (was to me) and could make them focus on things they don't need rather than the real issues that concern them.

So I guess one answer is that we have to be careful not to make assumptions and trying to very specific about what we're talking about. When we see a poster not give enough info, ask questions and don't answer until he responds.

To go with what Frog said, I see a lot of newbies asking questions that makes me scratch my head wondering about how little they know and still moving forward. I read books and articles and talked to people at my club before I got started. Posting on forums should be for supplementary info and isn't the first place you should look when you are starting out.
 
In the software industry, we call this "lack of requirements/specification".

This thread you mention sounds very familiar.

Not only does the poster need to provide enough details, the replies need to speculate less and point out the lack of details (eg: "we can't answer this question until we find out xxx"). GJShulze is correct...

Asking questions and getting relevant answers is what keeps me coming back to this site. The members are excellent. They are patient enough to answer the same question over and over.
 
But how do you know that QL is wrong about the pressure and why just for 9mm? I did say that 6gr was under the max, but decreasing OAL would compress the load and raise the pressure to dangerous levels. I just think QL going to be accurate enough to be careful. But let's leave it at that since I only used that as an example. The person gave virtually no useful information and also hasn't given any more since then.
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It's a widely known fact QL does not calculate pressures accurately in straight walled cartridges. In the 9mm, many loads are compressed and do not run excessive pressures. QL some book loads using TiteGroup. It will make you wanna run and hide.
 
When I started hand loading, I joined a couple of forums. After reading them a while, I began to recognize several names whose their answers always seemed to make a great deal of sense to me. The longer I read their answers, the more I trusted them, There are some members that I never ignore. It took time but it has been worth it.
 
In the Internet age, information seekers with a question on a topic about which they know almost nothing have taken what they consider to be the easy road to answers: just Google it.

Often that Google search sends the seeker to a forum, where he or she reads a few related posts then joins, asks the question, leaving out key pieces of data which could help the more knowledgeable provide assistance, or asks it in oversimplified terms that reflect his or her level of understanding. Question asked, he or she gets a coffee top-off and returns for the answer. When the answer doesn't come in the time it takes for the warm-up, he or she bumps the post.

My scenario might be a little exaggerated, but this is how people do research today. Sadly, even on a topic as serious and potentially dangerous as metallic or shotshell cartridge reloading, "researchers" tend to use the same technique and same level of effort as they might use to compare brands of car wax or flea shampoo.
 
I've noticed that if a question is posed in the evening, we may not hear from the OP again until the following evening. That would require a little patience and understanding. Some don't respond from phones or from work or spend the day paying attention to forums.
 
If we could get all OPs to provide sufficient info to solve their problems on the first go round, we could also get all folks to stop offering solutions without sufficient info. Neither is going to happen on the internet

i give a pass on low info questions for a number of reasons;
chief being that if they know so little about that which they ask
that they do not or can not convey pertinent information when presenting the question,
they likely would not understand the answer even after having been
asked for such.
 
Then you also have the issue of posters trying to help and show how smart they are by posting way out fixes for what generally turns out to be a simple solution.

Something like a guy asking why his brass is not getting resized all the way. Instead of asking is your die set right the thread will go into your shell holder is to tall and needs cut down or the die must not be up to spec.

Thats just the nature of forum talk and help, anymore if I read a post asking for help but its lacking needed info or just one of them really type posts I just move on and figure that the smart guys will be along shortly to tell them everything they need to do.
 
An "IF YOU HAVE A PROBLEM WITH A RELOAD" STICKY with a LIST of general info needed ---like caliber, bullet brand/type/weight, case used, powder, primer, oal, press used, and specific firearm would at least eliminate most of the commonly omitted details.
Others might add something I omitted.
Some aren't going to read the sticky, but it would at least give them a place to be referred to at the start of the thread.

Do you think this would help eliminate the time and posts needed to get all the facts? What say you?
 
"IF YOU HAVE A PROBLEM WITH A RELOAD" STICKY
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I think that's a good idea. It will help whoever reads it first. For those that don't, we can give them a link to it for them to read. it certainly can't hurt.

I think the info required can be divided into three parts, one of which might be optional.

1) Components, press, and pertinent measurements (like powder weight and OAL)

2) A good description of the problem that needs to be resolved.

3) Firearm. I was going to say this was optional, but since that would involved the judgment of the person asking, maybe we need it just in case.

Anything else?
 
3) Firearm. I was going to say this was optional,
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That is often critical info in order to answer a question correctly.

But, who reads sticky's anyway??

We have them till who laid the chunk in the S&W revolver I.D. thread.
But 'I got pops old rusty gun, and it says .38 OTG on the side'.
'What is it, and how much is it worth??'

That is still the most common first question, until the inquisition to get all the details out of them.

rc
 
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