A couple cartridge and rifle questions about trends.

[mshootnit]

I've noticed some changes recently. First, the ruger hawkeyes are not in stock with two major stores. So my question is what lies ahead for the m77. Is it going almost completely away because of the American, ranch and predator? Are we entering a time where if you want a walnut or stainless hawkeye you will have to order?
Secondly, is the Ruger compact magnum pretty much a dead cartridge? They debuted around 9 years ago.

I've also noted that nice non Axis, non Trophy XP Savage rifles are harder to find on shelves as well.

 

[rcmodel]

No idea what Ruger is doing.

But, I think the time of walnut stocks are past.

They have about harvested all the old walnut trees in the Midwest.

And sold them to China to make cheap walnut veneer particle board furniture for Walmart.

The good old walnut is gone here.
I haven't seen a load of big walnut logs going to the stock makers in years.

rc

 

[stubbicatt]

RC this is just sad.

 

[jmr40]

They no longer use wood to make car wheels and new wooden boats are extremely rare. People moved on to better products. Same with guns. I put a Brown Precision fiberglass stock on my hunting rifle in 1983 and haven't hunted with a wood stock on a bolt rifle since. I got tired of dealing with the negatives.

The Stainless Hawkeye was dropped from production several months ago. The walnut version is still in production, but I doubt if many are being sold.

At least part of the issue is as RC stated, there is no decent walnut left. Over half the hunters I meet can't tell the difference between a nice piece of wood and a piece of garbage stuck on a rifle. They just see wood or plastic. I like a nice piece of wood as well as anyone, but I burn wood in my wood heater every winter by the truck load that looks better than what is on 99.99% of the rifles and shotguns being sold with wood stocks on them today. I'd just as soon use one of the cheap tupperware stocks as a cheap wood stock. Especially the plywood aftermarket versions some seem to like.

If you can find decent wood you'll spend more for the stock than the rifle or shotgun. It is only being used on the very high end stuff and most won't pay the price.

 

[Catpop]

I agree, it's a crying shame where gun stocks have evolved. A fancy grained walnut stock properly fitted and Tru oil finished has a depth and beauty that cannot be duplicated.
Glad I'm old school and have been able to experience this true craftsmanship and beauty in my life.

 

[Elkins45]

I agree, it's a crying shame where gun stocks have evolved. A fancy grained walnut stock properly fitted and Tru oil finished has a depth and beauty that cannot be duplicated.
Glad I'm old school and have been able to experience this true craftsmanship and beauty in my life.

As a contrasting view, I'm glad my rifles shoot the same place when it's raining as they do when the sun is out. I admire the beauty of wood stocks but I also appreciate the utility of laminate and synthetics.

I think maybe the best way to make everybody happy is put the nice wood on shotguns where it doesn't matter.

 

[Jason_W]

As a contrasting view, I'm glad my rifles shoot the same place when it's raining as they do when the sun is out. I admire the beauty of wood stocks but I also appreciate the utility of laminate and synthetics.

I think maybe the best way to make everybody happy is put the nice wood on shotguns where it doesn't matter.

It's not just appearance, though. At least to me, a wood stock just feels so much better in the hand.

While from an engineering standpoint modern polymer stocked guns are "better" there's a certain warmth that they'll never have. It's similar to vinyl records vs. digital audio files.

 

[BSA1]

Well my stainless steel M-77 with the synthetic "paddle boat" stock in .270 will consistently shoot 1/2" groups at 100 yards. With that kind of accuracy and being almost impervious to weather it makes a polished blue with well figured walnut stock rifle a crime to take out to the real hunting world.

On the other hand some guns are just meant to be born with walnut stocks such as a lever action rifle.

 

[stubbicatt]

I wonder if this is a generational thing? It is hard to argue with the performance of many of the synthetic stocks manufactured by the aftermarket.

Same with my old BSA motorcycle... Heck a kid on a modern 350 can smoke me on my old 500, but it just isn't the same experience. I wouldn't trade my old rifles or my old bike for anything. The experience is vastly different. And it is satisfying and special.

Objectively, on most any axis of performance measure, most any modern rifle will outperform my 1904 Winchester schuetzen rifle or my 1904 vintage lever rifle. But something about the experience of shooting those "inaccurate" slow old rifles is special.

Even my F Open rifle has a wood (laminate) stock on it. -Not the same feel as walnut, but I concede nothing to any other rifle, performance wise.

 

[Jason_W]

I wonder if this is a generational thing? It is hard to argue with the performance of many of the synthetic stocks manufactured by the aftermarket.

Same with my old BSA motorcycle... Heck a kid on a modern 350 can smoke me on my old 500, but it just isn't the same experience. I wouldn't trade my old rifles or my old bike for anything. The experience is vastly different. And it is satisfying and special.

Objectively, on most any axis of performance measure, most any modern rifle will outperform my 1904 Winchester schuetzen rifle or my 1904 vintage lever rifle. But something about the experience of shooting those "inaccurate" slow old rifles is special.

Even my F Open rifle has a wood (laminate) stock on it. -Not the same feel as walnut, but I concede nothing to any other rifle, performance wise.

I'm not sure it's generational. I'm 35 (the very tail end of GenX or the very beginning of the millenials depending on who you listen to) and I will always gravitate toward wooden stocked rifles over synthetics. There are hunters generations older than me who have shunned wood for synthetic.

Like you, I won't argue mechanical superiority. Synthetics are much stronger for their weight and are less susceptible to changes in the weather. That said, I don't care. Wood feels nicer to the touch and in my opinion, the ugliest wood stock looks better than the best synthetic. As you pointed out, the experience of hunting with older style firearms can often trump the cold efficiency of modern style firearms.

As a side example: My father in law is a maker of wooden boats. As a wedding present for my wife and I, he made us a wooden canoe. Now, modern, kevlar skinned canoes are far lighter and stronger than our wood strip canoe, but guess which one I like being more.

 

[David4516]

I'm not sure it's generational. I'm 35 (the very tail end of GenX or the very beginning of the millenials depending on who you listen to) and I will always gravitate toward wooden stocked rifles over synthetics.

Ditto (we'll I'm 34 but close enough)

I like blue steel and wood stocks on my rifles.

The only pastic stuff I have is on my AR-15

All my bolt and lever guns are wood...

 

[Frostbite]

I like both. It is one more reason to have more than one firearm!

 

[mshootnit]

And are the ruger compact magnums pretty much dead?

 

[Jason_W]

And are the ruger compact magnums pretty much dead?

I don't know if dead is the right term. I think non-starters may be more accurate.

There just wasn't a place in the market for them. The .338 RCM is overkill for most of the game hunted in the US and the .300 magnum market was already crowded.

The .375 and .416 Rugers are again overkill for most game people hunt. The market for such large/dangerous game rounds just isn't big enough to sustain new rounds.

 

[Poper]

You can get nearly the same performance out of a wood stock as you can a plastic one, you just have to spend a little more time and expend a little more effort and money. My 6.5-.300WSM wears a wood stock and shoots every bit as well as my .308 in its tupperware. The 6.5-.300WSM is a Remington 700 with a fully free floated barrel with the action pillar bedded and glass bedded in a Remington Classic stock. The stock is finished and sealed with tung oil in all the exposed wood areas, including inletted areas, behind the butt pad and the barrel channel. I have not had the point of impact ever change even with a change of territory. I live in AZ and often hunt in SD.

If you want wood, it CAN be fashioned and bedded appropriately to give as good of service as plastic. It will be heavier and will be warmer and prettier and it will accumulate nicks, dents and scratches a plastic stock will shrug off. But, for me, there is just something special about a wood stock.

 

[Cowhide Cliff]

I no longer hunt with a wood stock rifle either, actually my hunting shotguns are all weather too. Still they don't have the warmth and feel of a nice wood stock.

I'm not sure why the similar shaped stock feels different made from the different material but it does for some reason. Of course once you put on heavy hunting gloves you cant tell the difference except weight.

 

[stiab]

The Stainless Hawkeye was dropped from production several months ago.

Was not aware of this, wonder if it make my stainless Hawkeye .358 more valuable?

 

[bandur60]

Remember the fugly GREEN plastic in the first Ruger 77 MkII synthetics? Days after getting my first one, they were replaced with some good-looking walnut inserts I worked up in a very short time. Probably ~~~ 50+% of folks that see it have a comment on how "better" the stock looks.

It was easier to find smaller nice pieces of wood, and does it matter if they warp? Naaahh....

 

[tark]

Walnut will live forever. Don't worry RC, Illinois and Iowa are LOUSY with walnut trees. They are so common you can spot them from the interstate, as their leaves are rather distinctive. I have one in my yard that must have about a zillion board feet of lumber in it. Maybe Ill sell it to Ruger! LOL

I tried counting the number I saw on a ten mile stretch of interstate 80 and I had to stop because there were so many I wasn't watching the road. Nothing beats the beauty and warm glow of pride that a nice walnut stock imparts.

But if I were hunting hogs and crawling through brush I would want a piece of plastic or fiberglass or whatever ....

 

[Welding Rod]

I think the Hawkeye's days are short. I traded off all of mine, and the ones I traded that are walnut and blued steel my local gun shop has had a horrible time trying to resell at a fair pice. He is still sitting on one I traded in quite some time ago.

It seems to me buyers either want "cheap" or they pony up and buy "good". The market is filling up with budget rifles that appeal to those who buy on price. On the upper end the Winchester M70 and Browning X Bolt series put the Hawkeyes to shame. I tried the M70 and Browing X. It was a close call, but after that I have very recently switched over and standardized all my bolt guns as Brownings. The only thing I miss about any of the Hawkeyes (6 of them) is the Hogue rubber stocks that 2 of them wore. That's it.

 

[Vern Humphrey]

But, I think the time of walnut stocks are past.

They have about harvested all the old walnut trees in the Midwest.

I have a dozen big walnut trees on my place, down by the creek. And they're going to stay there -- although if a storm should knock one down, I have a couple of rifles I'm going to restock.

 

[Arkansas Paul]

Secondly, is the Ruger compact magnum pretty much a dead cartridge? They debuted around 9 years ago.

I don't know that I would say they were ever a live cartridge.
They didn't seem to catch on very well, at least not in my area. Maybe they did in other places.

 

[Flatbush Harry]

I have two Ruger 77 RSI (International, full stock version) Hawkeyes: one in .308 (stainless, special edition) and one in .270 Win (Blued). I put a Leupy VX3 2.5-8x36 on each...great lightweight hunting rifles. I couldn't get my $$ out of them but they're wonderful guns and great for their purpose.

Harry

 

[Elkins45]

And are the ruger compact magnums pretty much dead?

I think only two of the slew of cartridges Ruger created over the last few years will survive, and they are the two extremes: the 204 and the 375. I don't know why the 204 is popular because there are already a ton of good varmint rounds, but they seem to be selling a few of them. The 375 I completely understand because the power of a 375 H&H in a standard length action is pretty appealing. They seem to be moving a few of those African/Alaskan rifles. I bought a LH stainless laminated one just in case a velociraptor gets loose in my neighborhood.

I actually shot a whitetail doe with it this fall, but with a cast bullet at 1900 fps, not a full power elephant round. Needless to say there was an exit wound.