Best Cartridge for Compact Rifle?

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EchoM70

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Hey guys,

I'm looking for some insight. Been looking at getting nice compact bolt action rifle for awhile and I'm still trying to figure out which cartridge to get it in. I'm looking for I suppose the most efficient cartridge in a 16.5in barrel that's still gonna be able to take out deer to 200-250 yards.

I'm looking at the Ruger M77 compact and the Remington Model 7 at the moment and not sure if anyone else offers a great compact bolt?

The two cartridges I've been trying to decide from are either .308 or 7mm-08.

I figure the .308 would be the best choice, but am I overlooking something?
How is the 7mm-08 out of such a short barrel?

opinions?

Btw, I'm looking at a traditional scope mount, probably a Luepold VX2 ultralight 2-7x33. So that means the Ruger GSR and such scout designs are off the table at this time.

Thanks all!
 
You're on the right track. Either will work and the 7-08 looks a little better on paper. I chose 308 because factory ammo is easier and cheaper to find. I already reload for 30-06 too so it kept things simple.
 
7-08

My longest shot yet was 176 yards at a central Ga. 220 lb. 10 point that watches over my family room now. 7mm08 Rem. has gotten my vote for the last ten plus years. I handload for my Rem. model 7 LLS at a mild 2750 fps with 130 gr. Speer btsp. Most factory ammo is 120 or 140 gr at 2900-3100 fps but can be had with heavier bullets.
I'm not a big fan of the .308 Win. My son likes his .308s. But either will do what you want and will do it well.
With the political climate here lately there have been more 7-08 on the shelves here than .308 I'm sure because less people own one compared to the many with .308s.
I'd hold out for the VX2 3-9x40. Better low light visibility than the 2-7x32. Not as good as the 50mm but the 50 just looks out of place on a short barreled rifle.
 
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7mm-08.
It will kick a little less in a light short rifle.
So your field accuracy will go up.

And it will kill anything the .308 will.

rc
 
at that range you stated why not go even more compact and even lighter?.. a .223 in a 1 in 7 twist that can use 75-80 grain bullets, a 6.8SPC, or a 6.5 grendel? all work in .223 length actions and you could have yourself a VERY small, light rifle capable of deer at that distance
 
If you're dead set on the ultra-short barrel or you don't reload, then the 308 is the obvious choice. I would not consider either round pleasant to shoot from a 16.5" barrel, but the 308 will definitely have less muzzle blast/concussion as the gas has about 18% more volume to expand before it leaves the barrel.

If you're shooting deer at 200 yards then there's no reason to choose a long for caliber bullet like a 7mm 140+ grain bullet or a 308 165+ grain bullet, as the ballistic advantages are muted at close range. For deer, I would go with a 308 with a ~125-150 grain bullet of appropriate construction for medium sized game.

If you don't reload, you'll discover that the cheapest 7mm-08 plinking ammo is about 70% more expensive than the cheapest 308 plinking ammo ($17/box for the 7mm-08 vs $10/box for the 308).

I think you may end up over scoped (too much magnification) if you go with the 2-7x. Leupold fudges their magnification numbers, a 2-7x is actually a 2.4-6.7x. I think that the low power (2.4x) is too high. I've not taken shots at several deer due to having too much power at the low range, but I've never had to pass on a shot because I had too little power at the top of the magnification range. If your eyes are decent I would suggest a 1-4x scope, that's plenty for shots out to 300 yards on a deer.

Are you dead set on a 16.5" barrel? If you're willing to go with a 20" barrel that opens up a lot of options:

Thompson Center Venture compact (MOA accuracy guarantee)
Browning x-bolt Micro-Midas (very nice wood and fit and finish)
Weatherby Vanguard S2 carbine/youth model (MOA accuracy guarantee)
Winchester Model 70 compact
etc...
 
If you are leaning .308 get that. If you like to be a little different get the 7mm-08. Both are easily capable of your intended role. You aren't going to beat the selection and availability of the .308 if that's a consideration.
 
Thanks for all the replies, lots of good insight.

Let me give a little background, maybe it will help out a little.

Right now I currently have two .308 rifles, both bolt action, both 22in barrel, both similar but set-up for different roles.

I also reload for .308 as well as a few other calibers. 7mm-08 is one I do not reload at this time, but I'm definitely not against getting the die set. I reload for 7mm mag so the only things really needed to get started on 7mm-08 is die set and brass.

What I don't have in my collection is a compact, lightweight rifle, something to fulfill a niche in my hunting battery. So 18in is about gonna be the max I want the barrel.

Cartridges such as .223 and it's offspring I'm leery about, just too marginal for me. I know a lot of people have a lot of success with them and shot placement is key, I just can't do it. Even though where I'm hunting shots present themselves fairly close, I want to have confidence in what I'm sending down range.

Corn-picker, My eyes are kinda meh, lol. So I would just feel comfortable
with a little more magnification. But I do appreciate your opinion of the matter, a valid one it is.

So 7mm-08/.308 it seems... flip of a coin

RiverRat,
isn't the 7.62x39 similar in ballistics to a 30-30? How does it look at 2-300 yards coming out of a carbine?

Edit:
Just actually pulled up the specs on the model 7, I always thought they were 18in barrels but they're 20in after all.

Is the Ruger compact the only option in the <20in crowd? Definitely not against Ruger, I own three. Just seeing what else is out there that is what I'm looking for without chopping a barrel down.
 
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Btw, I'm looking at a traditional scope mount, probably a Luepold VX2 ultralight 2-7x33. So that means the Ruger GSR and such scout designs are off the table at this time.
Click to expand...
You do realize that the Ruger GSR has standard / traditional scope mounts, right?

I'm looking at the Ruger M77 compact and the Remington Model 7 at the moment and not sure if anyone else offers a great compact bolt?
Click to expand...
There are several other options that are worthy of consideration. I'm wondering how the Winchester Model 70 Featherweight Compact was left off the initial list. The CZ 527 Carbine in 7.62x39 is an interesting rifle that really seems to fit your ideals. How about the Kimber 84M Montana that weighs 5 lbs 6 oz with a 22" bbl. Then there's the Steyr Mannlicher Classic Light at just over 6 lbs with a walnut stock and 20" cold hammer forged bbl. For that matter you can mount a scope in the conventional position on the Steyr Mannlicher Scout.
 
Ugaarguy,

Thanks for all the recommendations, but I'm pretty dead set on a sub 20in barrel for the role of this rifle. All of those are 20in rifles, expect for the kimber at 22in. That's why they were excluded.

I also understand you can mount a traditional scope on the GSR, just if I had to choose between that and a Ruger compact, I would choose the compact. I don't need the extra offerings in the scout setup, should have stated that. Not sure about the mounting system on the Steyr scout however.
 
from my experiences as a young grunt 42 years ago....the .223 (5.56) is caca....the .308 (7.62 x 51) put em down with one shot instead of a 3 shot burst....politics, in my opinion let many a youg GI down.
 
7mm08, i have one and so does my dad. both are model 7 and both go .4" at 100yds with my handloads. we killed alot of deer with these two. my dad has a 3-9x swift and i have a 4x swift.
i haven't taken mine, there was a ruger #1 and currently a t/c encore(rifle stock and 16 1/4" barrel), this one will be mine until i go far way:evil:
 
EchoM70, the shortest bbl I saw listed on the Remington website for the model 7 was 18" on a couple of compact models. I assumed, I guess incorrectly, that you were considering bbls up to 20" or having a bbl shortened since you said you wanted a 16" bbl.

Have you checked the length of pull on the compact rifles to make sure they'll fit you? I ask because both the M77 Compact and the Model 7 compact have shorter stocks than their standard brothers. Hence, I wouldn't rule out finding the rifle you want and then having a gunsmith or the manufacturer's custom shop cut and crown the bbl to the length you want. Just some thoughts.
 
I have a, 7 pounds with scope, model 70 feather-weight in 6.5x55mm Swede that is a dream to carry and shoulder, but it has a 22 inch barrel. It shoots half MOA.
I would not mind having another feather-weight type rifle in 338 federal or 358 Win.
 
EchoM70 said:
Cartridges such as .223 and it's offspring I'm leery about, just too marginal for me. I know a lot of people have a lot of success with them and shot placement is key, I just can't do it. Even though where I'm hunting shots present themselves fairly close, I want to have confidence in what I'm sending down range.
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what about the 6.5 grendel? its a 7.62x39 offspring thatll deliver around 1800ft/lbs at the muzzle and retain significant amounts of power and velocity downrange due to the incredibly high BC 140 grain bullets

the issue with 7.62x39 is itll do large amounts of power close range (also see loads up to 1800ft/lbs at the muzzle, like the grendel) however, unlike the grendel the 7.62x39 uses a very short, fat 30 caliber bullet that bleeds energy incredibly fast.. the grendel would have a lot more power down range but fits in the same ultra-short action.. and to make things easier, they share the same bolts

the shorter fatter case tends to burn powder a bit more efficiently too over something more elongated like a 223 cartridge

should still have close to if not over 1,000ft/lbs of energy at 300 yards with the grendel.. and at 1000 yards will still have about as much energy as a 9x19mm at point blank (a lot of drop at this point though)
 
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Neither round is a slouch. As stated, the 7mm-08 seems to have a slight edge in a shorter barrel. However, I'm a die-hard fan of the .308 round. It works well, is readily available and you can tailor nearly any caliber to work in a given barrel length if you reload.

Recoil is subjective. If the rifle fits you well, the felt recoil will, well, feel less. And even if recoil does bother you a little, shoot up some .22 curing the occasional flinch. Anyone shooting a .30 caliber rifle on a regular basis that doesn't shoot a pile of .22 is either lying or wasting .30 caliber rounds when they should be refining fundamentals (like not flinching) with a .22.
 
I got a Ruger compact a few years ago. I looked for the 7-08 but it was not available at the time. I got a .308. Believe me, I have not been disappointed!

Accuracy is extremely good for the size it is with its tiny barrel. AND, mine keeps poa and group size even when it warms up. I was somewhat surprised.

It has been a winner in the deer woods too. I'm using my Nosler BT handloads and it is a killer.

Wonderfully light and easy to carry for an old, broken down hunting guy.

I wouldn't change a thing.
 
Another lightweight option available in a variety of chamberings, is the Savage Lightweight Hunter. 5.5 pounds.

http://www.savagearms.com/firearms/model/11LH

I am a cast bullet user so something like the 308 would be a smallbore for me. I would opt for a 358 Winchester if I could find one. But of the two cartridges you mentioned, the 308 is not often a mistake.
 
Remington model seven ss synthetic in 7 mm/ 08. Nice, short light and a good choice for hunting in the snow or rain. Superb deer killer. All you need is a good scope. Well balanced deer round.
 
I am desiring the same thing, and my choice would be a 6.5 Grendel. Sadly, there is STILL no factory offering in a bolt gun in that caliber. Being an admitted fan of all things 6.5 and a reloader, I would probably choose a 260 Remington for a compact deer hammer. It also keeps you in the same case family with your .308.
 
Marlin 336 with Leverevolution ammo?
Click to expand...

The leverevolution ammo doesn't add much to the tradional rounds for 30-30. It is accomplished mostly with smoke and mirrors. All other manufacturers show their 30-30 ammo with a 100 yrd zero and about 28" low at 300.

Hornady shows their Leverevolution ammo with a 220 yrd zero and only 12.5" low at 300

If you zero any conventional 30-30 bullet at 220 yards it will be within 1" of the same trajectory as the Leverevolution ammo.

Don't worry about FACTORY barrel lengths. Buy the RIFLE you want. It is simple and inexpensive to then have the barrel cut to the length you want. Just my personal preference, but I've found 20" to be handy enough and offers just the perfect balance. I'm not concerned about velocity loss, but 18" is as short as I'd really like because of balance concerns and muzzle blast.

Here is a good read about shorter barreled 308's.

http://www.tacticaloperations.com/SWATbarrel/
 
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