Best Cartridge for Compact Rifle?
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rbernie
Contributing Member
Actually, the larger bore diameter (volume, actually) of the 308 means that it does better with faster powders and therefore shorter barrels. The smaller the bore diameter gets for a given powder volume/case capacity, the slower the powders need to get and therefore the longer the barrel needs to be. Simply put, the 7mm08 will suffer more as the barrel length reduces than will the 308. I think 308 is a natural; it works well in the desired barrel length, has ample availability, and you aready have/stock some.
Having said that, my walkabout rifle project is in 358 Win because anything that 308 can do inside of 250 yards, 358 Win can do better. You just have to be willing to accept the lack of factory ammo choices, and since I handload I'm OK with that. I bought a Ruger Hawkeye Stainless in 358 and am gonna chop the barrel from 22" to 18".
1911 guy
Member
See, that's why I like this site. Stuff I didn't think of. Thanks, RBernie.
I have used both for hunting whitetail deer, (Rem Model 7 in 308 as well as 7mm08/ M1A Socom16/ and 2 other M14 types with 18in bbls)........ and either is more than capable of taking whitetail deer in any state out to your listed range.
I second the notion that you should buy the rifle you really want, and then have the bbl cut back to your desired length....... and for 2 primary reasons.
1. The rifle that feels right in YOUR mitts, and that you shoot well is the more important aspect as compared to either of the 2 cartridges your interested in.
2. If desired, you can have the bbl cut back to the length you want, and also have the muzzle threaded, as it might be something of interest since your out of GA.
I'm not sure if SB93 was passed or not via GA, but the bill would make it legal to hunt with suppressors there if it did in fact pass into law.
Also...... a well built muzzle brake can lend itself well concerning muzzle rise, and to some extent...felt recoil. It will also protect the rifle's crown while your hunting in the thick stuff.
3. Optics: A 1-4x20mm scope provides for plenty of magnification out to 250yards, works well for hunting at closer ranges such as inside of 25/50 yards, and is more lightweight/compact than most 2-7x33's or 3-9x40's.
4. 22LR rifle: Been mentioned here already, but would second this idea as well, and worth looking into ITO hone the fundamentals while keeping ammunition costs down. ( I use a 10-22 fitted with Nodak iron sights for this purpose, and it fits well with my favorite M14S 18in bbl rifle I use for hunting.)
With that said, I shoot quite a bit of the cheaper 7.62x51mm every week, as well as hunting hogs yr around with the same rifle.
FWIW...... I have just recently acquired another rifle chambered in 308. It's not a bolt action, but it is very compact....sporting a 16in threaded bbl with an OAL of 34.75 inches. Weight = 8.5lbs. My 18inbbl M14S is about the same weight, and OAL is right at 38inches as a reference.
A Ruger American compact bolt action rifle ( .243, 7mm08, 308) runs at 6lbs with an OAL of 36.75 inches, along with it's 18in bbl
Ruger's M77 compact sports a 16.5in tube, and weighs out at 5.5lbs.
Do you have a overall weight restriction, or is the focus on OAL ?
I second the notion that you should buy the rifle you really want, and then have the bbl cut back to your desired length....... and for 2 primary reasons.
1. The rifle that feels right in YOUR mitts, and that you shoot well is the more important aspect as compared to either of the 2 cartridges your interested in.
2. If desired, you can have the bbl cut back to the length you want, and also have the muzzle threaded, as it might be something of interest since your out of GA.
I'm not sure if SB93 was passed or not via GA, but the bill would make it legal to hunt with suppressors there if it did in fact pass into law.
Also...... a well built muzzle brake can lend itself well concerning muzzle rise, and to some extent...felt recoil. It will also protect the rifle's crown while your hunting in the thick stuff.
3. Optics: A 1-4x20mm scope provides for plenty of magnification out to 250yards, works well for hunting at closer ranges such as inside of 25/50 yards, and is more lightweight/compact than most 2-7x33's or 3-9x40's.
4. 22LR rifle: Been mentioned here already, but would second this idea as well, and worth looking into ITO hone the fundamentals while keeping ammunition costs down. ( I use a 10-22 fitted with Nodak iron sights for this purpose, and it fits well with my favorite M14S 18in bbl rifle I use for hunting.)
With that said, I shoot quite a bit of the cheaper 7.62x51mm every week, as well as hunting hogs yr around with the same rifle.
FWIW...... I have just recently acquired another rifle chambered in 308. It's not a bolt action, but it is very compact....sporting a 16in threaded bbl with an OAL of 34.75 inches. Weight = 8.5lbs. My 18inbbl M14S is about the same weight, and OAL is right at 38inches as a reference.
A Ruger American compact bolt action rifle ( .243, 7mm08, 308) runs at 6lbs with an OAL of 36.75 inches, along with it's 18in bbl
Ruger's M77 compact sports a 16.5in tube, and weighs out at 5.5lbs.
Do you have a overall weight restriction, or is the focus on OAL ?
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Plus you can load handgun bullets for small game or messing around.
Dr T
Member
I very clearly understand your dilemma. I have one of each:
A Model 7 in 7-08 with 18" barrel, iron sights and 2-7x variable, and a fiberglass-kevlar stock; and a Model 77 Frontier (16.5" barrel with 12.5" pull and set up with scout and standard mounts) and scope currently in question.
Model 7: I regard this rifle as the most accurate rifle I own. However, it is very picky about its handloads and tends to like heavier bullets at lower velocities (e.g. 145 gr bullet at ~2500 fps). It is nice, light, and easy to handle. However, it was a bear to get it to shoot properly (the stock and scope mounts were both issues).
Model 77 Frontier: This rifle is consistently "hunting accurate" with groups of 1.25" and smaller with most factory ammo (It tends to like things like 165 gr. Hornady factory loads). The shorter barrel and stock pull make it easy to handle in close quarters, and I much prefer the Ruger safety and claw extractor over the Remington set up--but that is a personal choice). I like to hunt with this gun more than I do the Model 7. My issue is finding the right scope. I tried the scout set up, but was not happy with the use in lower light conditions. After much consideration and looking at nearly every scope at the local Cabelas, I have about decided on the Leopold VX-3 2.5-8 x 36. I hope that Santa will be good to me
After going through this, I suggest that the OP pick up both and handle them. Then, just choose the one that fits best. Both are good, and there is no objective clear choice.
A Model 7 in 7-08 with 18" barrel, iron sights and 2-7x variable, and a fiberglass-kevlar stock; and a Model 77 Frontier (16.5" barrel with 12.5" pull and set up with scout and standard mounts) and scope currently in question.
Model 7: I regard this rifle as the most accurate rifle I own. However, it is very picky about its handloads and tends to like heavier bullets at lower velocities (e.g. 145 gr bullet at ~2500 fps). It is nice, light, and easy to handle. However, it was a bear to get it to shoot properly (the stock and scope mounts were both issues).
Model 77 Frontier: This rifle is consistently "hunting accurate" with groups of 1.25" and smaller with most factory ammo (It tends to like things like 165 gr. Hornady factory loads). The shorter barrel and stock pull make it easy to handle in close quarters, and I much prefer the Ruger safety and claw extractor over the Remington set up--but that is a personal choice). I like to hunt with this gun more than I do the Model 7. My issue is finding the right scope. I tried the scout set up, but was not happy with the use in lower light conditions. After much consideration and looking at nearly every scope at the local Cabelas, I have about decided on the Leopold VX-3 2.5-8 x 36. I hope that Santa will be good to me
After going through this, I suggest that the OP pick up both and handle them. Then, just choose the one that fits best. Both are good, and there is no objective clear choice.
rbernie
Contributing Member
That is actually the *real* reason that I love the 358 Winchester; I can load up some plinking loads using the same bullets that I load for 357 Magnum, and then I can load up some serious critter-gittin' loads using premium hunting bullets.
I've harvested a number of deer with a Frontier in 308 and think very well of the platform indeed.
PedalBiker
Member
Short answer: 7mm-08 and 308 will both suit your needs, efficiency is slightly on the side of the 308 the higher BC of the 7mm bullets will give a long distance advantage.
If you buy the Hodgdon annual reloading manual it will have 14" data for a large number of rifle calibers. That will give you a good idea what a cartridge will do in a 16.5" barrel (use linear interpolation and then round up a bit because the initial length helps more than the final length).
I'd probably opt for a 6.5 Creedmore or 260 Rem. I have a 19" 260Rem barrel for my Savage 110 (yup, long/short action and it's HEAVY). I cut the barrel down from 24" and I wish I'd have left it longer. Overall, though, I like the balance of recoil and power with the 6.5mm. I know I'm "out West", but I hunt in some pretty thick underbrush like scrub oak, sage brush and yucca. I have never found a 22" barrel too long.
Efficiency is a nice concept, but look over that Hodgdon manual, it may surprise you.
If you buy the Hodgdon annual reloading manual it will have 14" data for a large number of rifle calibers. That will give you a good idea what a cartridge will do in a 16.5" barrel (use linear interpolation and then round up a bit because the initial length helps more than the final length).
I'd probably opt for a 6.5 Creedmore or 260 Rem. I have a 19" 260Rem barrel for my Savage 110 (yup, long/short action and it's HEAVY). I cut the barrel down from 24" and I wish I'd have left it longer. Overall, though, I like the balance of recoil and power with the 6.5mm. I know I'm "out West", but I hunt in some pretty thick underbrush like scrub oak, sage brush and yucca. I have never found a 22" barrel too long.
Efficiency is a nice concept, but look over that Hodgdon manual, it may surprise you.
ThomasT
Member
I have an older remington model 7 in 7-08 and its my new favorite deer rifle. Mine has the 18.5" barrel and walnut stock. Right now a 15 year old girl is using it to try and get her first deer. She stands about 5'3" and has no problem using it. I loaded some Sierra 120gr bullets to around 2700fps and think its a better set up than a 243.
Gunbroker usually has several of these listed but I don't ever remember seeing any 308s listed.
I forgot to add that my gun has a leupold VX-1 2x7 and at low power I can look at my garage door from the inside at the lowest power the veiw is clear. I have become a real fan of the small 2x7 scopes.
Gunbroker usually has several of these listed but I don't ever remember seeing any 308s listed.
I forgot to add that my gun has a leupold VX-1 2x7 and at low power I can look at my garage door from the inside at the lowest power the veiw is clear. I have become a real fan of the small 2x7 scopes.
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jason41987
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is it going to be a .223 length action?.. if its a really short action like that, id buy one if they had 6.5 grendel.. i love the idea of a very compact, like, inside 300 yard bolt gun though realistically i think 6.8SPC and 6.5G are suitable for twice that
That is actually the *real* reason that I love the 358 Winchester; I can load up some plinking loads using the same bullets that I load for 357 Magnum, and then I can load up some serious critter-gittin' loads using premium hunting bullets.
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Thanks for sharing this. Good info.
A rifle chambered in 358 Win, and a handgun chambered in 357 Mag sounds like a good combination for a body who reloads for both.
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Thanks for sharing this. Good info.
A rifle chambered in 358 Win, and a handgun chambered in 357 Mag sounds like a good combination for a body who reloads for both.
41 Mag
Member
I picked up the Ruger Compact in .308 shortly after they came out with it. Hands down it hits the woods 5X more than anything in my safe except my Redhawks.
If you look at the hunting pics on the link below, I would say 85% of what is there were taken with that rifle, including the hog my then almost 4yr old at the time grandson got using it.
For an off the shelf hunting rifle out to 200yds, (well I have even stretched it out further with bang flop results,) it has been a dream to carry through the woods, on the rack on front of my 4 wheeler, and laying on the middle console of the truck while doing chores on the farm. It is light and easy enough to point and shoot like a handgun up close and personal, and fits like a dream when shouldered up for a fast shot on moving game in the woods. Sprawled out with a bag for a rest it hols true to the ballistics of the factory Rem 150gr CL's I use the most in it out to as far as I feel it is good for.
With factory ammo I get a constant 2650'ish FPS reading over my chrony which isn't bad for a 150gr from a 16.5" tube. The only thing I have done with it since getting from the LGS was to have the stock duracoated in a camo pattern.
Several of my hunting buds have sneaked it out while I was using my revolvers on hog hunts and when they got back each of them asked how much I wanted for it. I have it topped with a Burris 1.5 x 6 x 32 Signature Electra Dot specifically for the woods and hogs. That little red dot shows up against their back hides in low light much better than the black on black of the heavy crosshairs. That is one of the best scopes I feel one could put on this sized rig. Just right at low power for shots as close as 15', and plenty on 6X for shots out to 450-500yds form a solid rest.
If you can find one I highly doubt you will have any issues with it what so ever. Mine with scope and full mag ready to hunt weighing in at a whopping 6.75# is making some sure fire enemies in my gun safe for sure. It stays right up front rucked in the corner for easy access.
If you look at the hunting pics on the link below, I would say 85% of what is there were taken with that rifle, including the hog my then almost 4yr old at the time grandson got using it.
For an off the shelf hunting rifle out to 200yds, (well I have even stretched it out further with bang flop results,) it has been a dream to carry through the woods, on the rack on front of my 4 wheeler, and laying on the middle console of the truck while doing chores on the farm. It is light and easy enough to point and shoot like a handgun up close and personal, and fits like a dream when shouldered up for a fast shot on moving game in the woods. Sprawled out with a bag for a rest it hols true to the ballistics of the factory Rem 150gr CL's I use the most in it out to as far as I feel it is good for.
With factory ammo I get a constant 2650'ish FPS reading over my chrony which isn't bad for a 150gr from a 16.5" tube. The only thing I have done with it since getting from the LGS was to have the stock duracoated in a camo pattern.
Several of my hunting buds have sneaked it out while I was using my revolvers on hog hunts and when they got back each of them asked how much I wanted for it. I have it topped with a Burris 1.5 x 6 x 32 Signature Electra Dot specifically for the woods and hogs. That little red dot shows up against their back hides in low light much better than the black on black of the heavy crosshairs. That is one of the best scopes I feel one could put on this sized rig. Just right at low power for shots as close as 15', and plenty on 6X for shots out to 450-500yds form a solid rest.
If you can find one I highly doubt you will have any issues with it what so ever. Mine with scope and full mag ready to hunt weighing in at a whopping 6.75# is making some sure fire enemies in my gun safe for sure. It stays right up front rucked in the corner for easy access.
Lloyd Smale
Member
for all around versitility its hard to beat the 308 in a short package
mr.trooper
Member
The more overbored a cartridge is, the more it suffers from a short barrel.
308 and 7mm08 are so close in diameter that it may not matter ... but the 308 would be the technical best.
308 and 7mm08 are so close in diameter that it may not matter ... but the 308 would be the technical best.
Bartholomew Roberts
Member
Seems like the .308 does better in a short package and you are already set up for it. If you decided you wanted less power/muzzle blast, you could step down to .300 BLK and still use .308 bullets. The Barnes 110gr TSX would have no trouble expanding out to 300yds in .300, though the trajectory isn't going to be as nice and flat as the same round out of a .308.
Think I've figured it out. I've gotten a chance at a Ruger 77/44 in 44 magnum and I think it'll be about perfect for what I'm wanting.
A 2-300 yard shot is now off the table but anywhere within 150 yards it should be capable.
Still gonna look for a ruger compact in .308 or 7mm/08 though.
A 2-300 yard shot is now off the table but anywhere within 150 yards it should be capable.
Still gonna look for a ruger compact in .308 or 7mm/08 though.
Isn't the Ruger "Scout" Rifle an 18" or 16" barrel that allows both scount scope mounting and traditional mounting of a scope? Holds 10-15 rounds?
Have you looked into that rifle in .308?
I also agree with Corn-Picker. When I bought my .25-06 Rem the only scope I had available was a Bushnell 3200 1.5-4.5 x 32. I put that on the rifle the day I bought it, drove 200 miles zeroed the rifle @ 100 yards, and shot two deer standing beside each other @ 300 yards using 115 grain Winchester Silver Tips.
Anyway. You'll know the rifle when you pick it up. I just bought a Ruger 77/44. I wanted it because I own a SBH in .44 Mag with a 5.5" barrel. It is a safer rifle in my mind than a lever gun for a 10 year old girl to take deer hunting. Detachable magazine and Ruger's 3 way safety to lock the trigger, but allow the bolt to open. That makes for a good rifle for her to take deer hunting. Good luck.
7mm or .308? Within 500 yards it doesn't make any difference. I'd probably take the .308 because I could shoot heavier bullets. If I wanted a short barreled short action rifle I'd make sure it would shoot heavier bullets than 140 grains. I'd want to throw some lead from that short barrel.
I didn't see your Ruger 77/44 post before I posted about my purchase. I like that little rifle. Throws heavy lead, can be canned to silence, and is a good safe action for youngsters and give my SBH caliber more punch.
Have you looked into that rifle in .308?
I also agree with Corn-Picker. When I bought my .25-06 Rem the only scope I had available was a Bushnell 3200 1.5-4.5 x 32. I put that on the rifle the day I bought it, drove 200 miles zeroed the rifle @ 100 yards, and shot two deer standing beside each other @ 300 yards using 115 grain Winchester Silver Tips.
Anyway. You'll know the rifle when you pick it up. I just bought a Ruger 77/44. I wanted it because I own a SBH in .44 Mag with a 5.5" barrel. It is a safer rifle in my mind than a lever gun for a 10 year old girl to take deer hunting. Detachable magazine and Ruger's 3 way safety to lock the trigger, but allow the bolt to open. That makes for a good rifle for her to take deer hunting. Good luck.
7mm or .308? Within 500 yards it doesn't make any difference. I'd probably take the .308 because I could shoot heavier bullets. If I wanted a short barreled short action rifle I'd make sure it would shoot heavier bullets than 140 grains. I'd want to throw some lead from that short barrel.
I didn't see your Ruger 77/44 post before I posted about my purchase. I like that little rifle. Throws heavy lead, can be canned to silence, and is a good safe action for youngsters and give my SBH caliber more punch.
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You could always get the exact cartridge and barrel length combo you want from E.R. Shaw:
http://www.ershawbarrels.com/sps-the-mk-VII-rifle.php
http://www.ershawbarrels.com/sps-the-mk-VII-rifle.php
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