A couple questions about the Ruger Vaquero...

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Is a Ruger Vaquero basically a Colt SAA reproduction?

What's 45 Long Colt like, in terms of recoil/velocity compared to 357 Mag? Should I expect 45LC to be similar to 44 Special? 44 Mag? Somewhere in between?
 
yes the new vaquero is a SAA clone. It is capable of handling tier II loads (21,000PSI). the comparison in recoil is around a +P .45 acp out of a revolver. the ballistics for cowboy action ( Tier 1 ) loads are similar to a .44 Special. The ballistics for a (Tier 2) load are around a .44 mag

Here is a article by Brian Pierce in the rifleman magazine about all of this. read it first to understand what i am saying to you above.

http://www.riflemagazine.com/magazine/P ... artial.pdf
 
The Ruger has a transfer bar (a piece of metal between the hammer and firing pin) that is pushed up when the trigger is pulled. Unlike an SAA, this makes it safer to carry with all six chambers loaded.
I don't think the Ruger could be tuned to have as slick an action as an SAA.
The Ruger is stronger than an SAA (or faithful clone), but IMO, you shouldn't try to get .44 Mag velocities out of .45 LC.
 
The (New) Vaquero is a "Stronger" SAA that still retains the unique handling/pointing characteristics of the original Colts.
( was very surprised at this when I first picked one up)

As a faithful SAA, it's also relatively small/light. At the 250-270gr/45Colt Tier-II loads suggested above, expect solid
44 Special recoil. Not at all unpleasant.
 
To me 44 special, 45acp, and 45 Colt all feel about the same. I shoot moderate loads with largish revolvers.

My K frame 357 with "spicy" loads feels to me like it has more recoil than the other three.
 
The New Vaquero is comparable in size, strength and design to the Colt SAA. It is ever so slightly larger and an ounce or two heavier. The grip frame is a dead ringer for the Colt. The reason I can't call it a replica is that the lockwork is completely different and thus, it feels completely different when you cock it.

Recoil of the .45Colt is very mild with cowboy loads, as these are loaded under standard pressure. Full pressure standard loads 250-260gr at 950fps get a little lively in a Colt-sized sixgun. The so-called Tier II loads, in the 1100fps/21,000psi range are about the limit for me with the standard plow-handle grip. The .357's recoil is faster and snappier. No doubt the sharper report makes it seem even worse to some.

There is no reason to assume that the Ruger is stronger than a Colt or any modern replica. All are available in the 21,000psi .45ACP. Other than perception and marketing.
 
I have a 5 1/2" bright stainless Vaquero in 44 Magnum. The original Vaquero is about 10% larger than the Colt SAA. The internal workings are completely different from the SAA. The Vaquero has a transfer bar type of safety which the SAA does not have. I love mine as the size and engineering make it safe for just about any load I choose to use.
 
Thanks for the replies all, this has been an excellent tutorial. I have a "new gun" itch and am looking for something to scratch it with.

Plus I was just gifted some 45LC reloading dies. =D
 
To me 44 special, 45acp, and 45 Colt all feel about the same. I shoot moderate loads with largish revolvers.

My K frame 357 with "spicy" loads feels to me like it has more recoil than the other three.
^ Yes, that. It feels light to me (was the 1st centerfire handgun I ever shot: age 8) Anyway, it still kills stuff dead as any newfangled caliber, and you can purchase Buffalo Bore stout loads, &/or load your own stuff that's as stout as most .44mag loadings.

The Vaquero, new or not, is a SAA clone only on the outside. Innards are completely modern.
^^^ And +1 this. ONLY the exterior is same. If you want a true "Colt Clone" buy an Uberti instead as those ARE like a Colt. The Ruger and Colt will not be able to swap any parts, whereas the Uberti copy is dang close. I think for your purposes a Vaquero is the right choice :) YMMV.
 
Howdy

The Vaquero is absolutely not a clone of the Single Action Army. Clone, or replica, means the internal mechanism is the same, or almost the same, as the original. The lockwork (mechanism) of the Vaquero is radically different from that the Single Action Army.

Let's step into the Way Back machine for a moment. Ruger introduced their first Single Action revolver, the 22 Rim Fire Single Six, in 1953. In 1955 they introduced their first Center Fire single action revolver, the 357 Magnum Blackhawk. The internal mechanisms of these guns was very similar to the mechanism of a Colt. Like a Colt, they had three cocking positions on their hammers, 'safety cock', half cock, and full cock. The cylinder was free to spin for loading and unloading when the hammer was placed at half cock. And just like a Colt, if you whacked the hammer hard enough with a live round under the hammer, they would fire. The biggest innovation of the Ruger design was substituting coil springs for the old leaf springs of the Colt. Using coil springs increased the parts count because each spring needed a plunger, but the old Three Screw Rugers, as they were known, operated exactly like a Colt.

This big Three Screw Flat Top 44 Mag Blackhawk was made in 1957. If you look carefully you can see the spring plunger for the trigger just behind the trigger.

FlatTop44Mag04.jpg



In 1974 Ruger completely redesigned their single action revolvers. A transfer bar was added to the design. With the transfer bar, the hammer never strikes the frame mounted firing pin. Instead, when the trigger is pulled all the way back, the transfer bar rises up and positions itself so the hammer will strike it, and the transfer bar transfers the hammer blow to the frame mounted firing pin.

This photo shows the hammer of a Vaquero fully cocked, and the transfer bar has risen up and is in position to transfer the hammer blow to the firing pin. The arrow points to the transfer bar.

transfer%20bar%20with%20arrow_zpsjqonembh.jpg


In addition to the transfer bar, the new single action design did away with all but one of the hammer cock positions. The hammer now only had a full cock position. The cylinder was freed to rotate when the loading gate was opened. Hammer position had nothing to do with freeing the cylinder for loading.

The new design was officially dubbed the New Model. The reason for the changes was law suits that Ruger was involved in resulting from deaths and injuries from revolvers accidentally discharging when the hammers were struck. The New Model designs were and are completely safe to carry fully loaded with six live rounds in the chambers.

I purchased this 45 caliber New Model Blackhawk in 1975. It came with two cylinders, one for 45 Colt, the other chambered for 45 ACP. You will notice the Three Screws have been replaced by two pins. In the old design, the hammer, trigger, and bolt each pivoted on their own screws, just like a Colt. In the new design, the hammer pivots on one pin, the trigger and bolt rotate on the other pin.

turnlineBlackhawkSNmodified_zpse91b1bf1.jpg



The Vaquero was first introduced in 1993. It was nothing more than a New Model Blackhawk with the frame contours rounded off to resemble a Colt, and the adjustable rear sight replaced by a groove in the top of the frame. This model Vaquero, sometimes called the 'old model, or 'original model', was built on the same large frame size as the Blackhawk, so the cylinder was big and beefy enough to be chambered for 44 Magnum.

This is a large frame 45 caliber Vaquero of the 'old', or 'original' size. I forget what year it was made, but it is a pretty early one. The Vaquero did feature a steel grip frame, which made it slightly heavier than the aluminum grip frame of the Blackhawk. Notice the Vaquero has the same two pins as the Blackhawk. The cylinder pin on this gun is an aftermarket pin.

Vaquero.jpg



This pair of Stainless Vaqueros are also chambered for 45 Colt. The highly polished Stainless was meant to resemble the nickel plated guns of the 19th Century.

stainlessvaqueros.jpg


In 2005 Ruger ceased production of the original, large frame Vaquero and introduced the New Vaquero. As dumb a name as they could possibly have chosen. There has been more confusion to date over which is the New Vaquero and which is the 'old' or 'original' Vaquero than just about any other gun I can think of. To make matters worse, the catalog now lists the New Vaquero as simply Vaquero.

Anyhoo, the New Vaquero was introduced to satisfy the requests of many Cowboy Action shooters who wanted a Ruger more the size of a Colt. And of course, as soon as it was introduced, everybody wanted the 'old model' back. The New Vaquero is very similar in size to a Colt, and as such the largest caliber it is chambered for is 45 Colt. It IS NOT available chambered for 44 Magnum.

This photo shows the 'original model' Vaquero pictured earlier with a 357 Magnum New Vaquero right under it. You can see the New Vaquero is slightly smaller. the basic mechanism of the New Vaquero is the same as the 'original model' Vaquero, and the New Model Blackhawk before it. Same transfer bar, same loading gate controlling the free spin of the cylinder. This New Vaquero is an early one and has the high hammer spur that originally came with the model. The New Vaquero also features a spring plunger in the frame that causes the chambers to line up properly with the loading gate, always a short coming with the other New Model Rugers.

Vaquero_NVaquero_Singlesix.jpg



Here is a New Vaquero compared to a Colt, showing the similarity of size.

SAANewVaqueroComparison.jpg



This last photo shows a Ruger 'old model' Vaquero cylinder in the center, an Uberti Cattleman cylinder on the left and a 2nd Gen Colt cylinder on the right. All three cylinders are chambered for 45 Colt. Notice how much more massive the Ruger cylinder is and how much more meat there is surrounding each chamber. That is why the large frame Rugers were so strong. I don't have a 45 caliber New Vaquero cylinder to show for comparison, but it would look very similar to the Uberti and Colt cylinders. Folks like to talk about the New Vaquero being able to digest heavy loads, but if I had one I would never feed it anything more powerful than SAAMI Max 14,000 psi loads.

cylinders_01.jpg
 
The New Vaquero is closer to the size of the SAA than the original Vaquero. The New Vaquero is also available in 357 Magnum and 45 LC. In the New Vaquero you essentially get a revolver the size of a SAA with the safety features of most Rugers. For a fun gun it would be difficult to top it.
 
For what its worth, from a reliability standpoint, I would rather have a Ruger. Safer, and the coil spring is far superior to the tension bar of the Colt.
 
Driftwood Johnson - Just wanted to take a moment to commend you on that photo essay reply. It was nice to not only read the story, but also to see examples. That really made it interesting. Thanks.
 
and the coil spring is far superior to the tension bar of the Colt.

Tension bar? Please point to the 'tension bar' in this 2nd Gen Colt.

2ndGenColtExplodedView.jpg

If you are referring to the mainspring, which can be seen in this photo between the backstrap and the trigger guard, the Ruger coil mainspring really does not add a whole lot to the design, at least not in my opinion. The reason Ruger went to coil springs is they are less likely to break than a leaf spring (is that what you meant?)

But frankly, I have never seen the mainspring of a Colt break. What does tend to break is the hand spring and the split trigger/bolt spring. Here is a photo of a broken Colt trigger/bolt spring. Yes, they do break, and if you look closely the trigger/bolt spring in the 'exploded' view has been replaced by a wire spring that is less likely to break. The other broken part in this photo is a bolt. The single fussiest, most complicated part in a Colt. They don't break often, but this one did. That's why Ruger replaced the Colt style bolt with a simple stamped part.

brokenspringandbolt.jpg


Here is an exploded view of that big Three Screw 44 Mag Ruger.

FlatTop44MagParts.jpg


And here are the trigger, hand and bolt. The bolt is a much simpler part than the Colt bolt, a simple stamping. The torsion spring shown is what worked the bolt in the old Three Screws.

FlatTop44MagBolt.jpg
 
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As usual, you can take Driftwood Johnson's posts to the bank!

A couple of years ago our friend Phil Piburn posted a video clip of a Ruger Blackhawk (essentially an adjustable sighted Old Model Vaquero) firing .45 Colt black powder loads.

When you touch off a historically correct (250 grain slug or thereabouts with a case full of black powder) .45 Colt, you are aware that something has happened. See post #9:

http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=687493&highlight=.45+Colt+black+powder

I leave it to you to compare it with a .357 Magnum.
 
Wow...

Driftwood Johnson, amazingly cogent explanation and comparative analysis! Your exploded diagram photo is now resting in the "gun research" folder on my desktop for future reference. It is clearer than any Colt supplied line drawing I've EVER come across. Thanks!!! :D
 
One of the few cases where I am sensitive enough to tell a difference.
The New Vaquero is still a bit larger and heavier than a Colt, about 4 ounces worth. That is obvious to me in a gun meant to be shot with one hand (I used to shoot SASS Duelist.)
That may not make it strong enough for Maximum Magnumized .45s, but it will handle anything I care to shoot.
 
Driftwood Johnson

Great job with the photo essay! Pictures go a long way in showing the differences between the Colt and Ruger designs.
 
If it walks like a duck, quacks like a duck, feels like a duck and handles like a duck... it's a clone for functional puposes.
If it's built like the third little pig's brick [censored]-house on the inside... it's an even better duck.
:neener:




[That said, my Uberti SmokeWagon is the coolest duck ever] :D
 
If it walks like a duck, quacks like a duck, feels like a duck and handles like a duck... it's a clone for functional puposes.
If it's built like the third little pig's brick [censored]-house on the inside... it's an even better duck.
:neener:




[That said, my Uberti SmokeWagon is the coolest duck ever] :D
^ LOL... hahaha! Indeed the Ruger Vaquero was engineered like a brick crapper. And yes the Uberti is a true CLONE inside & out.
 
I don't have a 45 caliber New Vaquero cylinder to show for comparison, but it would look very similar to the Uberti and Colt cylinders. Folks like to talk about the New Vaquero being able to digest heavy loads, but if I had one I would never feed it anything more powerful than SAAMI Max 14,000 psi loads.

Absolutely! Nail on the head. I cringed when I saw it suggested that "Ruger/TC only" loads were okay for the new Vaq. I have an 80s model Blackhawk in .45 Colt. The gun is MUCH beefier in frame and cylinder than the new Vaq and this gun can handle up to 25,000 CUP (Speer number 11 manual) which pushes a 300 grain bullet to 1100+ fps out of the gun's 4 5/8" barrel. I get 1200 fps out of my TC Contender's 7" barrel with that load. A .44 mag will outperform that, but what on earth in TEXAS needs that much killin'?

The hot 300 grain load has some recoil to it even though the Blackhawk is a heavier gun than a new Vaq. But, I mostly shoot 255 grain cast flat points over 8.3 grains of Unique. I have fired black powder in it, but Unique is smoky enough. :D Those loads are quite easy on my hand and fun to shoot, very accurate. The gun itself is quite accurate.
 
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