A couple reloading questions? (noob)

[Springfield_1911SS]

1) How do you know when to use Mag primers?

2) I noticed that in my reloading manual(Lee Modern Reloading 2nd Ed.) that for .357 mag has laod data for Win231 and Win296(i have some of each). That the laod amount for W231 is much lower than W296. And the amount of W231 seem kind of low for the .357mag case, is that ok? do i need any kind of filler?

3) I need a powder recomendation for 8mm mauser and .30-06(same powder in each), I also need a powder that will measure will in a mechanical powder measure? Would Win 760 be a good choice? IMR 4064?

4) I only use rainier lead safe bullets for now, on the rainer site it says to use the load data for lead bullets.(i use 230gr RN for 45acp, and have 158gr FN for 38/357) Does anyone else do this?

5) In my Lee reloading manual there is no staring point for Win296 in .357mag, only a "DO NOT EXCEED" amount. What should I start with(158gr FN rainier leadsafe)?

6) I have been looking at lee die for rifle. I was wondering about the neck sizer die. It says to only load for your rifle. Does that mean that I have to buy a new die for each rifle of that caliber that I shoot? Or does it just mean that I have to keep track what brass came from what rifle? And the bullet seating die that comes with the neck sizing die the same one that comes with the pacesetter set? Can/should the Lee factory crimp die be used with the neck sizer die?

These questions are kind of noob, sorry.

 

[Steve Koski]

1) When the manual calls for mag primers, usually with a slow powder that is harder to light.

2) 231 is a fast powder, and you don't need/want much or you'll blow up your gun. 296 is a lot slower, and it takes a heap of powder, but you can get much higher velocities.

 

[Steve Koski]

5) Usually, you reduce your charge by 10% for a starting load. However, with a few powders, you need to stay within 3% of the maximum charge, or you'll get unreliable ignition, unburnt powder, and have problems. 296 is usually listed as one of these powders. Read the manual closely and see if it refers to this.

 

[Steve Koski]

4) Sure, lots of people use lead bullet data for plated bullets.

 

[Steve Koski]

6) If you neck size after firing in one rifle, it will fit back in that rifle. It may not fit in another rifle. Clear as mud?

I imagine you can seat and crimp with any die(s) you like.

 

[Springfield_1911SS]

as to the neck sizing die question.

lets say that i have gun A & B, both .30-06. I fire 20rnds in gun A and 20 in gun B. If i neck size, i know that ammo from B will only fit it B and Ammo from A will only fit in A.

What my question is can I use the same die for A & B or die I have to buy a Die for B and a Die for A?

 

[Steve Koski]

Sure you can use the same die.

 

[lee n. field]

1) How do you know when to use Mag primers?

When the manual says. . The only thing I've ever loaded that calls for it is .357 Magnum, and I haven't loaded any of that this side of the millennium.

2) I noticed that in my reloading manual(Lee Modern Reloading 2nd Ed.) that for .357 mag has laod data for Win231 and Win296(i have some of each). That the laod amount for W231 is much lower than W296. And the amount of W231 seem kind of low for the .357mag case, is that ok? do i need any kind of filler?

Not saying that this is an error, but sometimes there are errors in reloading manuals. That's why it's a good idea to have more than one source of load data, as a sanity check.

6) I have been looking at lee die for rifle. I was wondering about the neck sizer die. It says to only load for your rifle. Does that mean that I have to buy a new die for each rifle of that caliber that I shoot?

No. Brass that is neck sized should only be used in one rifle. It's formed to that chamber and might not fit another rifle's chamber.

Or does it just mean that I have to keep track what brass came from what rifle?

Yes.

 

[Springfield_1911SS]

is it just me or does my lee manual not show weather or not to use mag primers, It just says small pistol/rifle or large pistol/rifle, i cant remember seeing anything about mag primers

What is the next manual I should buy?

 

[Steve Koski]

If it doesn't specifically call for mag primers, then it probably means non-mag primers. It should address magnum primers somewhere in the text. Hmmm.

I'm kind of partial to the Speer reloading manuals.

 

[RustyFN]

Steve was on a roll there. Good to see you on THR Steve.

6) I have been looking at lee die for rifle. I was wondering about the neck sizer die.

I might have missed it but you only want to neck size for a bolt gun. If you are loading for a AR, lever gun or anything else like that you will need to FL resize.
Rusty

 

[Springfield_1911SS]

rusty, yes for bolt guns, mine and my dads

 

[Steve Koski]

Hey RustyFN. How's life in W VA?

I almost moved there once. Wife wouldn't let me.

 

[RustyFN]

I almost moved there once. Wife wouldn't let me.

Smart lady, sounds like a keeper. I actually enjoy it here, it's very quiet and peaceful. But then I guess almost anyplace would be compared to growing up in the SF Bay Area. I'm still having trouble getting used to the snow.
Rusty

 

[ArchAngelCD]

1) How do you know when to use Mag primers?

Usually the load data from whatever source you are using will specify which primer (and brass) they used in developing the data. H110 and W296 REQUIRE a Magnum primer as per Hodgdon/Winchester.

3) I need a powder recommendation for 8mm Mauser and .30-06(same powder in each), I also need a powder that will measure will in a mechanical powder measure? Would Win 760 be a good choice? IMR 4064?

I just started reloading for the 30-06 and made a thread about powders for that round. IMR4895 is the powder originally used for the 30-06 when it was produced by Dupont. IMR and Hodgdon have tried to duplicate that original powder. From what I know, IMR did a better job. Along with 4895, 4350 is a very good choice.

4) I only use Rainier lead safe bullets for now, on the Rainier site it says to use the load data for lead bullets. (I use 230gr RN for 45acp, and have 158gr FN for 38/357) Does anyone else do this?

I use 148gr WC and 158gr SWC bullets in my .38 Special reloads.

5) In my Lee reloading manual there is no staring point for Win296 in .357mag, only a "DO NOT EXCEED" amount. What should I start with (158gr FN rainier leadsafe)?

You said in #4 the Rainier site recommended you use the data for Lead bullets for their bullets. Since you shouldn't push Lead bullets to Magnum speeds you can't expect load data for them. If you are going to load those bullets for the .357 Magnum you shouldn't push them any harder than recommended by Rainier. Don't use W296 because W296/H110 shouldn't be used in reduced loads. (as per the manufacturer) You should use W231 and follow the data for Lead bullets like Rainier states on their site. No Magnum primer required since you are using a fast pistol powder.

6) I have been looking at lee die for rifle. I was wondering about the neck sizer die. It says to only load for your rifle. Does that mean that I have to buy a new die for each rifle of that caliber that I shoot? Or does it just mean that I have to keep track what brass came from what rifle? And the bullet seating die that comes with the neck sizing die the same one that comes with the pacesetter set? Can/should the Lee factory crimp die be used with the neck sizer die?

If you don't do a full length resize and do only a neck resize the Brass can only be fired in the rifle that originally fired the round. When you fire a round in a rifle the case expands and takes the form and size of the chamber of THAT rifle, it's called Fire Forming. Since every rifle is slightly different you can't be assured a case that was Fire Formed in one rifle will fit correctly in another. If you fire the same caliber in more than 1 rifle all you need to do if you don't want to keep track of which Brass was fired in which rifle is to do a full length resizing on all the Brass for that caliber.

 

[Springfield_1911SS]

archangel, the rainer leadsafe bullets are copper plated. they are softer than traditional FMJ bullets, so they dont have to be loaded as hot. But the copper plating eliminates any exposed lead

 

[fireflyfather]

As for only loading in bolt rifles if neck sized...that's not ENTIRELY true. Any single barrel (or combo shotgun/rifle) break action would probably be fine too. Just not good for autoloaders, pumps, revolvers, or multi-barreled guns.

Basically, for neck sizing using lee neck sizer dies (or lee loader), you can use the dies for as many rifles as you want, but you MUST keep track of which brass was fired in which gun. Your best bet is to buy those plastic ammo boxes in two different colors and get REAL anal retentive about that brass being put back in the right gun ASAP. Either that or use a permanent marker to mark all the brass from one of the two guns...

 

[ArchAngelCD]

archangel, the rainer leadsafe bullets are copper plated. they are softer than traditional FMJ bullets, so they dont have to be loaded as hot. But the copper plating eliminates any exposed lead

Springfield_1911SS,
My response to your question about Rainier bullets was based on what you said is on their WEB site. If you want to ignore what Rainier tells you by all means, do as you please. I really don't understand your post.

From the Rainier WEB Site:
We, at Rainier Ballistics, recommend using lead bullet load data when loading our bullets. There is no need for adjustment when using lead bullet load data. Our bullets are jacketed using an electroplating process and are softer than traditionally jacketed bullets; hence the recommendation to use lead bullet load data. If you only have access to traditionally jacketed load data, we recommend reducing maximum charge by 10%. A roll or taper crimp may be used with our bullets; do not over crimp.

That looks pretty clear to me. Since you said you already read this, what is the problem? Like I said before, powder manufacturers don't recommend pushing Lead bullets (or bullets you are supposed to treat like Lead according to Rainier) to Magnum speeds. Since that's true why would anyone post load data to contradict that fact?

 

[zxcvbob]

Use the 231 with plated bullets (and no filler). 296 is used for full-powered shake-the-earth loads and cannot really be reduced or you'll get misfires.

I like using Herco in .357 with cast bullets, but I just bought a pound of Blue Dot and it's pretty cool too.

 

[Steve Koski]

AECD:

http://www.alliantpowder.com/reload...gtypeid=1&weight=158&shellid=1015&bulletid=28

There's some manufacturer data pushing lead bullets as fast as a their jacketed bullet data of the same bullet weight. There aint nothing wrong with shooting lead bullets at high velocity.

 

[xsquidgator]

3) I need a powder recomendation for 8mm mauser and .30-06(same powder in each), I also need a powder that will measure will in a mechanical powder measure? Would Win 760 be a good choice? IMR 4064?

I don't know about 30-06 but my 8mm K98 seems to like IMR4064.

I'm still getting acclimated to rifle reloading but I've had a few odd problems to figure out that have been non-issues with pistol. I've had easy success using BL-C(2) powder for my 7.62x54R (Mosin-Nagant M44 ) reloads. 8mm Mauser rounds are in the same class, no? The load data I had (Lee#2) had light loads of BL-C(2) for 8mm Mauser that only half-filled the case, and I had a lot of squib rounds. BL-C(2) is a fine-grained ball powder also, which I didn't know until I bought it. More weight and volume BL-C(2) would probably have been ok, but I didn't have load data for more BL-C(2) and the normal large rifle primers. Magnum LR primers apparently have "more fire" to ensure reliable powder ignition, but I didn't feel like getting those.

But my 8mm Mauser rounds are great with IMR4064, the case is almost full of a nice typical stick powder for rifle. So, I keep a can of IMR4064 handy for the 8mm Mauser and a can of BL-C(2) for my 7.62 reloads (both x54R and x39).

 

[Walkalong]

What is the next manual I should buy?

Speer #14

Ranier 230 Gr RN bullets work great with W231 in the .45. 5.5 Grs will work great. Start at 5.0 Grs W231 and work up to 5.5. Make sure you verify your charges with a scale. I personally prefer the Berry's 230 RN, but Raniers work fine as well. The Ranier 200 Gr. SWC is super accurate, although finicky feeding in some guns.

W231 is a fast pistol powder suited to the .45 ACP and other pistol calibers.

W296 is a very slow pistol powder suitable for magnum pistol calibers. It is not suited to the .45 ACP.

Rifles of the same caliber will not have exactly the same size chambers due to manufactureing tolerances. It is a general rule when neck sizing to use that brass in that rifle only. Full length dies will enable you to size your brass where it can be used in any rifle of the proper caliber.

Speer # 14 will explain all of these things and you need to get it or another good one such as the Lyman manual before you go much further. Do not hestitate to ask questions here, but please do get a good manual for your own sake.

 

[ArchAngelCD]

There's some manufacturer data pushing lead bullets as fast as a their jacketed bullet data of the same bullet weight. There aint nothing wrong with shooting lead bullets at high velocity.

Steve,
I'm not debating whether or not you should push Lead bullets to Magnum speeds. All I said was, it's not recommended. Also, it's a fact that Rainier, the manufacturer of the bullet recommends you use load data for Lead bullets.

Like I said before, do as you please, I'm through with this thread! :banghead:

 

[zxcvbob]

I do shoot lead bullets to magnum speeds without any problems other than a little leading; and I'm working on that (I think the problem is bevel base bullets and the wrong lube, but even then it is not a big problem) Plated bullets are a little different; I've never used Rainier bullets, but I've used a lot of Berry's bullets. According to Berry's, you can cut through the plating when you crimp them, then shoot the core out and leave a piece of the plating in the bore as an obstruction.

You can shoot the plated bullets at high velocities, but you need to work up to it, and W296 and H-110 are not the right powders to use to work up a load. With those powders you start at the maximum and can back off a *little* if that gives you better accuracy (it won't). They also need a heavy crimp, which is a bad thing with plated bullets.

I can't comment on most of the rifle loading Q's because I'm just starting to get into that myself. But q #6, the collet die only sizes the necks; the rest of the case is presumed to be fire-formed to fit your bolt-action rifle. (I'm not sure if you need to full-length resize after a few reloads to set back the shoulder.) If you only resize the necks, the cartridge will only fit in the gun it was previously fired in, or another gun with a looser chamber. Also, with the full-length resizer, don't have to seat the die all the way down; you can use a feeler gauge to adjust the die up from the shellholder a small amount to adjust the shoulder. Because the cases are tapered, this will also size the whole case a little larger (works the brass less)

 

[Steve Koski]

AECD:

So you're saying that they give load data for pushing lead bullets at high speed, but they really wish you wouldn't follow their load data. Huh?

You make a lot of generalizations that aren't true. Be careful young man!