I recently received “the blessing” from “The Boss” to purchase a new custom rifle and glass. After endless hours of net homework, I narrowed my wants to a single maker (to remain nameless); then I concentrated additional net homework to that specific maker. This would be about a $6k rifle with about $2k worth of glass/ mount. In my homework, I came across a forum discussing this maker and “opinions” of the worth of this maker’s rifle. All good comments with the exception of a drumbeat that the bolt handles were not centered in the stock cut out. I went to their website, pulled up photos of their rifles that were ready to ship and sure enough, the bolt handles in the stock cut out favored forward of center - when noting that off center detail, the rifle then looked wrong to me. I assumed that this kind of detail at that price was a given, but I was wrong - I am glad I did the homework because I was ready to write the check. Oh well, back to the beginning and more homework.
A Custom Purchase
- Thread starter Steve S.
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AlexanderA
Member
For a $6,000 rifle, there's no excuse for something like that. However, I wouldn't write this company off without talking to them directly. Either they have an explanation, or they might be willing to make the required alterations to a rifle that you might buy.
What currently-made bolt rifle is worth $6,000 anyway?
What currently-made bolt rifle is worth $6,000 anyway?
AlexanderA, you make a good point that I have also considered; I presently own several factory rifles that are a sixth of the cost, they are very well made and they shoot very accurately (and the bolt handles are even centered in the stock). You make a very good point that requires more reflection on my part.
I'd certainly call the company, because for $6K, I'd expect every detail to be right.
ontarget
Member
Could this off center condition of the bolt handle be done on purpose to accommodate the sweep of said bolt handle throughout its range of motion?
You know, if it is swept back maybe it needs more clearance to the rear of the handle.
You know, if it is swept back maybe it needs more clearance to the rear of the handle.
If I build a rifle with cast off and toe out people will think that the stock is bent and twisted and all screwed up. They don't realize that it is intentional and actually makes building it more difficult. If a number of rifles from the builder you are looking at have bolt handles a bit forward, it is likely intentional. Call and ask about it. There is probably a good reason.
Below is one example; I am not a custom gun expert however, I see no mechanical reason for the stock cut to be off center other than a bad fit. Maybe someone in the know can shed light as to a reason for what appears to be simply a bad fit. This is s $6k rifle.
Riomouse911
Member
Ya, to my eye that goes look a bit funky, like they used a mass production one-size-fits-all stock on their blueprinted action.
Call and ask, or ask for a different stock that looks better to you. If it’s a custom, then a different stock is further customization to the buyers specs!
Lucky dog getting 6k for a new gun!!! I’d be happy with 1k gun and a $2500 hunting trip
Stay safe!
Call and ask, or ask for a different stock that looks better to you. If it’s a custom, then a different stock is further customization to the buyers specs!
Lucky dog getting 6k for a new gun!!! I’d be happy with 1k gun and a $2500 hunting trip
Stay safe!
I'd call the builder ...
I guess the moral of the story for me is to ask the question of what else doesn't fit properly that I cannot see in their photos; when you are buying a Lexus or Porsche or BMW, do you bring it to their attention that the doors of their cars do not fit correctly and would you please correct that flaw on the one that I would like built. If this builder cannot see this flaw in their rifles - hmmm? - no call, no money, I do not take the risk, I move onto another builder. My question was answered by this gracious forum - in my mind, that kind of work in that price range is ridiculous. Thanks again.
Ok I'll bite.
Very few premium things get bought by looking at a few pics and making a decision. You had picked that builder for a specific reason and now a pic is changing your mind? I see it as deciding on a BMW then changing my mind because a picture shows a crooked antenna.
Two posts ago you asked if anyone whould know why. I said call the builder as several have also said. Obviously you really don't want the answer and have talked yourself out of the rifle.
Very few premium things get bought by looking at a few pics and making a decision. You had picked that builder for a specific reason and now a pic is changing your mind? I see it as deciding on a BMW then changing my mind because a picture shows a crooked antenna.
Two posts ago you asked if anyone whould know why. I said call the builder as several have also said. Obviously you really don't want the answer and have talked yourself out of the rifle.
AlexanderA
Member
From the picture, it doesn't look all that bad to me. Keep in mind that the bolt is going to cam to the rear as the handle is raised. And the stock should probably be relieved a bit more in front of the bolt handle.
It's certainly worth having a discussion with the makers.
(For comparison, take a look at the stock cutout on an M1903A4 sniper rifle.)
It's certainly worth having a discussion with the makers.
(For comparison, take a look at the stock cutout on an M1903A4 sniper rifle.)
Legionnaire
Contributing Member
You are making assumptions about the way the bolt should fit. Personally, I'd be checking for function and doubt I would even have noticed that.
But then, I don't own a $6,000 rifle ...
But then, I don't own a $6,000 rifle ...
Llama Bob
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This whole exercise seems destined to end badly.
There are no non-cosmetic bolt action rifle features that would justify a $6000 price tag. Trued (or manufactured true) actions cost maybe a bit over $1000. A barrel is $500, fitting it maybe $300. Maybe another $300 for stock fitting and bedding. A few hundred for misc small parts like trigger, bolt parts etc. maybe. A couple hundred for bottom metal and mags if it takes them. Stocks can vary but most things you might be looking at are a $1000 or less.
The whole concept of what's going on here makes no sense. The companies that charge that much for a rifle (or more) are charging for exhibition wood, engraving, etc. that seem notably missing from your picture.
There are no non-cosmetic bolt action rifle features that would justify a $6000 price tag. Trued (or manufactured true) actions cost maybe a bit over $1000. A barrel is $500, fitting it maybe $300. Maybe another $300 for stock fitting and bedding. A few hundred for misc small parts like trigger, bolt parts etc. maybe. A couple hundred for bottom metal and mags if it takes them. Stocks can vary but most things you might be looking at are a $1000 or less.
The whole concept of what's going on here makes no sense. The companies that charge that much for a rifle (or more) are charging for exhibition wood, engraving, etc. that seem notably missing from your picture.
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AlexanderA
Member
Regarding the $6,000 price tag, the old adage springs to mind: "A fool and his money are soon parted."
The rear of that action looks an awful lot like a Remington 700 to me...
The rear of that action looks an awful lot like a Remington 700 to me...
Offfhand
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For $6000. and change in your pocket it's worth visiting a major show where the Gunmaker's Guild have an exhibit. It's smart to see the work of several top custom craftsmen to see what is available and get a better handle on what to expect. After seeing some top drawer work you will probably have a broader understanding of quality work. Attached is bolt handle shape and fit of a David Miller rifle. Study details.
someguy2800
Member
As mentioned the bolt travels rearward as you lift the bolt because the locking recesses in the reciever are ramped to provide exctraction.
The clearance in the picture is more than is needed, but you do also need to have some clearance behind the bolt handle because if there isn’t enough the bolt handle will act as a recoil lug when the rifle recoils and the stock flexes.
The clearance in the picture is more than is needed, but you do also need to have some clearance behind the bolt handle because if there isn’t enough the bolt handle will act as a recoil lug when the rifle recoils and the stock flexes.
Jim Watson
Member
What type of rifle? If a target or foul weather hunting rifle, all carbon fibre and stainless, I would not worry about it.
If classic blue steel and walnut and you are expecting $25000 Hollands quality for $6000, you may be disappointed. I doubt you could get one like Offhand's for $6000.
If classic blue steel and walnut and you are expecting $25000 Hollands quality for $6000, you may be disappointed. I doubt you could get one like Offhand's for $6000.
Llama Bob
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One thing we should keep in mind is that some M700-footprint custom actions have greatly increased primary extraction, which would necessitate more clearance. I have no idea if that's the case here because OP seems unusually secretive.
Varminterror
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Note in @offhand’s photo, the stock behind the bolt handle is much lower than the front side, but the handle drops into the slot on center. As the bolt is lifted, the primary extraction cam pushes it backwards, which then clears the lowered top rail of the stock.
For the picture of the mystery maker’s stock, the rear rail is as tall as the front, and as such, it has to have clearance for the primary extraction cammed travel.
Not rocket science.
For the picture of the mystery maker’s stock, the rear rail is as tall as the front, and as such, it has to have clearance for the primary extraction cammed travel.
Not rocket science.
Never heard of a $25,000 Holland & Holland. Maybe in 1935.
CraigC
Sixgun Nut
I'm sorry but this is just silly. I would've called the maker looooong before I started this thread about it. Save all this hand wringing and discussion with a ten minute phone call.
Double it and add some change for a Rigby, Mauser, etc..
Jim Watson
Member
Quick Google found a H&H for $35000, a Rigby for $15000. Bolt actions, of course.
My 1939 Stoegers has a Holland's .375 H&H for $320, a Rigby .416 for $375, and a Jeffery .500 for $400.
The top of the line H&H double rifle, the Modele De Luxe, not the Royal, was $1400 at the time.
CarJunkieLS1
Member
Do yourself a big favor and call Meredith Rifles based in Alabama. I guarantee you it will be the best shooting rifle you'll ever own and the attention to detail is phenomenal. I own several of them and I have seen no less than 25 of his built rifles and they are fantastic. He has a 1/2 5 shot group accuracy guarantee
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