A few old rifles...

[GIJOEL]

A good friend of mine just inherited 3 1873 trapdoor Springfield rifles (2 rifles 1 carbine) and a winchester 1866. The I think the Winchester is in 44 rim fire (does anyone make this stuff?) He wants to shoot the rifles if it's safe to do so. I think the winchester is out due to odd chambering and bronze alloy receiver. The trapdoors seem to be in decent shape with no obvious flaws in the lock work. I advised my buddy to choose one of the 1873's to shoot and leave the others alone. Are there any nuances in the operation of the 1873? Does the carbine hold any extra value? Is there any "do not use" ammo I should be aware of? Are there any good books or information sources for these rifles?

 

[RPRNY]

In the interests of safety, any of those rifles that he wants to shoot really need to be pressure tested. Metalurgy was as much art as science until the early part of the 20th century and while the 86 Winchester may well be out of contention anyway, one of the three trap doors may well still be a shooter. But even "Trap Door Loads" of modern smokeless ammo are going to exert pressures close to those rifles black powder peaks. If not a full proof testing, the receiver and barrels want going over with a fine tooth comb before shooting anything. Then, your friend may wish to go with light pyrodex loads or very light handloads in smokeless while he gets the hang of the gun, keeping a weather eye on chamber, bolt face and throat/barrel. Could be all three are good for modern trap door rounds and more. Best to find out before shooting though.

 

[Cosmoline]

Obviously the first thing to do is a detailed check, and I'd want a chamber cast to make sure nobody fiddled with it in the garage. 19th century steel can be excellent (witness the many 1890's Mosins still dishing out high octane loads), but it's had a lot of years of potential abuse since then. And the action, while not inherently weak, isn't the strongest either.

After looking into this re. my antique .50-70, I opted to go with black powder only. There are those who argue the right smokeless loads are actually less stressful to the action than black, but I'm unconvinced and I figure it's designed for what it's designed for. If I blow up, I blow up with the black stuff.

Either way, for .45-70 the "do not use" list would include pretty much any modern factory loads.

 

[Onmilo]

.44 rimfire hasn't been made in about 40 years now.
You can have the gun converted to .44 centerfire but will lose considerable value on the weapon if you do.

I like SR4759 for making up smokeless loads in blackpowder cartridges, the pressures and pressure curve is similar to blackpowder.

Have a gunsmith check the .45/70s out before you attempt to shoot them.
Some have loose hinges and bad headspace.

 

[StrawHat]

Some of my references for things Trapdoor.

http://milpas.cc/rifles/ZFiles/Sing...OOR RIFLE/U.S. SPRINGFIELD TRAPDOOR RIFLE.htm

http://www.trapdoorcollector.com/

http://www.gunreports.com/special_r...ngfield-Trap-Door-Single-Shot-Rifle154-1.html

And for reloading to match the original ballistics.

http://www.4570book.info/

Are they old? Yes, but they are still used daily by competitiors. The action is stronger then many other single shots of the time and many of those are used without the dire warning one always hears when the Springfield Single Shot Rifle is mentioned. The weak action trapdoor is the Model 1865 and 1866, by the time the 1873 came out, all the parts were manufactured new. Look it over and use good judgement but the odds are in your favor it is a shooter. If the bore is pitted, that may not be a problem. Some bores do very well with cast lead and black powder even though they look rough.

 

[ball3006]

I have been shooting my Trapdoor rifle for 40 some years. Black power loads work the best. You have to clean accordingly after shooting. chris3

 

[mcofboise]

My '73 Trapdoor came with a broken extractor, and a partial box of circa '50s Remington ammo, including several fired cases with odd flow marks on them. Looking in the chamber showed gouges in the chamber wall that matched the brass flows and pretty much explained the broken extractor. I opted against cutting back/rechambering the barrel, sleeving the chamber or any of the other multitude of fixes and left it as original. I fired it with light black powder loads and hefty pistol type loads just to hear it speak, as well as a round or two of modern (20 years ago) factory ammo, that was not any fun to shoot. The gun went back into retirement after the one outing, but my interest in modern 45-70 arms got picqued. My uncle acquired the Trapdoor, along with a 2nd series Colt Woodsman and a 10 year old car for $40 back when he was working construction in the '50s. I now have 2 of the 3... the car used as much oil as gas and was quickly sold off.
I'd say if there are no obvious mechanical deficiencies, the wood is good, and you can load down for them, there's not any reason to not revive them for a bit. Shooting the holy black in them is really the only way to truly appreciate them, IMO.

mike

 

[Float Pilot]

AA-5744 powder works well, (much better than IMR-4759) for low pressure 45-70 loads.

 

[rcmodel]

Does the carbine hold any extra value?

It does if it was not one of thousands converted from cutting off a rifle.

Look on the end of the forend and see if there is either a cleaning rod hole/slot, or evidence one has been plugged or patched with a different piece of matching wood.

If there is, it is a cut down rifle.

rc

 

[dprice3844444]

bout 20 bucks per round or so on the rimfire.try old western scrounger
I loved that article i want to go see his shop.

hayley custom ammunition
211 n. river st.
p.o. box 889
saymour TX 76380

phone
940 888 3352
__________________
http://www.ammo-one.com/44Henry.html

 

[GIJOEL]

Thanks for all the info, I am going to refer my friend to a good smith for the trapdoors, I don't think the carbine has been cut down, and if I remember correctly it has a saddle ring on it.