A flintlock question

[MCgunner]

I have only messed with cap locks. Will a flintlock fire with other than 4F for priming powder? How would one feed a flinter if one cannot possibly get anything, but substitutes like Pyrodex? Could you grind up some Pyrodex RS or P with a mortar & pestle maybe? I know, I can order BP, but I suspect it'd take an order of 50,000 lbs to justify the shipping charge. I'd rather buy local and don't wanna have to drive to Anchorage to get powder. I don't really know of a BP source in Texas, let alone the coastal bend. Might be one I don't know about maybe in Corpus, but not near me. I doubt it, anyway, as I've investigated it around the Houston area, no dice.

 

[Hungry Seagull]

You will want to run regular old black powder or whatever equvilant for a flintlock.

In the meantime while you are hunting powder, you might consider purcussion.

 

[Jim Watson]

I have always heard that a flintlock will not ignite Pyrodex. The usual recommendation is to load a few grains of black under the barrel charge of Pyrodex as well as in the pan.

Powder Inc. will sell 5 lbs for $20.35 a pound including shipping and hazmat. I think they will mix granulations so you could have 4 lbs of FFg for maybe 400 shots and a pound of FFFFg for a lifetime of priming.
http://www.powderinc.com/catalog/order.htm

 

[fineredmist]

Keep this in mind when you handle a flintlock that is loaded (powder and ball in the barrel), it can fire even if there is no powder in the pan and the hammer (flint) is dropped on the frizzen causing a spark. A stray spark can find it's way through the touch hole and ignite the powder. A leather "finger" that covers the frizzen will prevent any sparking and render the weapon "safe".
The probability of this event happening is small but remember "Murphy" and his law are out to get you, so why tempt him?

 

[mykeal]

You can use 3f in the pan, but it must be real black powder for any kind of reliable ignition. As for the main charge, Pyrodex RS will work IF you first load a small 5 or 10 grain charge of real black before the Pyrodex.

As for mail order, Mr. Watson has it right. If a few pennies per pound matter you will need to order at least 10 pounds, but if you're willing to pay 3 or 4 dollars per pound over local retail, a 5 lb order will suffice. Some people just can't get over having to pay $18/lb for mail order when somebody else might get powder for $15/lb over the counter, even if they can't get it over the counter.

Here are the facts, available to anyone with an internet browser; these are DELIVERED prices - that is, they include shipping and hazmat fees:

 

[Jim Watson]

$15/lb over the counter, even if they can't get it over the counter.

Strange how they can advertise stuff cheaper if they don't have any on hand.

 

[Hungry Seagull]

Break up that much powder to pan and charge a round in a flint and I think cost per round isnt too bad.

Hazmat is a necessary evil. Ive hauled a few from time to time.

Good luck!

 

[Matt-J2]

It looks even better all the time. Pyrodex P here costs $20 a pound in store, my jug of American Pioneer 3f I bought well over a year ago is marked $22.95. Ordering in 5lb lots(or more) works out to be about the same cost or cheaper, even including the fees. Soon, I will have me some Holy Black. Hopefully this weekend I can find some at a shop I was told about in this very forum.

 

[BlackNet]

technically you can just use 3F or 4F in the pan and pyrodex down the bore but do not expect 100% reliability on it. Since you are using real BP in the pan anyways may as well also shove it down the bore. a 5 pound lot of 3F (no 4F needed for most flints) will do wonders.

You can order it online from many places like powder inc.

 

[Macmac]

3 FFFg does it for me as prime, but I used Golden Powder a pyrodex before the inventor blew himself up and the stuff didn't work in a flinter then and no others so far as I know do now.

I kind of hope my flinters will go off with no prime, but i don't count on it.

The thing is if A flinter won't go with out the real stuff, just how much accuracy are you loosing shooting any other stuff?

if you ask me all other stuff is slower to ignite..

If the idea is a flinter isn't a good last resort , then a cap lock sure isn't.

Yeah you might ignite 'stuff' but not if you can't get caps.

No powder at all and I can start a fire with the lock alone if I need to, and with the gun loaded or not, I can still start fire with NO powder at all.. using the gun.

The flinter was here before the cap lock and probably will be after the cap lock the way things are going.. Don't take that like I am in any hurry.

 

[MCgunner]

Thanks for the link! I might make an order soon. I don't have a flinter, just wondering about it as I'm thinkin' about getting a flinter for patched round ball shooting. I already have a caplock Hawken. It wouldn't reliably cap Pyrodex and I converted it to small rifle primers. I use magnum primers on it, no problems. Now I know why it didn't like to fire. Hmmm. I may go back to caps if I get me a stash of BP, but the conversion has a cap with a firing pin, sealed with an O ring that covers it, a little better protection from moisture I reckon.

Thanks again.

Oh, I do have a tool to make my own caps, stamps 'em out of coke can metal and you put several roll cap centers in each. Works great with the inline cylinders of my revolvers, but the Hawken won't bang with 'em, not enough pop, I guess, for the long path of the flame. Dropping a little 3 or 4F in the hole and screwing the nipple down over it, though, should work. Loading would be slow that way, but hell, for hunting, loading fast isn't a concern.

 

[4v50 Gary]

Say no to anything not blackpowder for ignition.

BTW, tests at Colonial Willamsburg suggests that larger grains capture more of the sparks. On film they've noticed that the sparks don't necessarily stay down in the pan and sometimes they bounce right out of it. This result is less when large grain powder was used.

Remember, in the frontier days, you didn't and couldn't buy 4f powder. You primed from your horn or if you were a soldier, from your cartridge.

 

[Jim Watson]

I've seen pictures of what were said to be small horns for priming powder. Not so?

 

[Macmac]

Jim yeah there were small priming horns and some people have them. I made a mate to one of my powder horns, but no longer use it ...

2FFg works as well as 3FFFg to me..
Think paper catridge for flint muskets, where by officer command all tore the catridge to prome the pan then poured the loose powder down the bore, followed by the shot, ball, or BuckN Ball, and last the paper rammed to hold it all in the bore..

"They" used the same powder as the load which was figured in the catridges each man was required to have. Most acconts say 60 catridges.

Now Now MCgunner .... You don't wanna go and stuff the nipple with powda, because that more or less is making a fuse, and surely will delay the BANG. You gotta burn thru that fuse.

That is akin to a over primed pan where the level must first burn down below the vent (touch hole) That is a common newbie problem, and 1/2 the reason the flinter is said to be slow.

My flinters might be slower than a cap lock but if they are it would take modern science to tell that difference.

 

[GENTLEMAN OF THE CHARCOAL]

I don't know hardly anything about a flintlock, but this is a damn good thread. Real interesting and very informative....

 

[4v50 Gary]

Priming horns didn't come in until after the Revolution. It was sometime during the Federal Period. I know for British riflemen it was about 1797 when they were given priming horns. The line infantry still primed from their cartridges.

BTW guys, if you're not NRA, find someone who is and has a subscription to American Rifleman. Maj. John Plaster has an article on riflemen of the Revolution. He covers the patriots, Germans and the British. If you enjoy his article, you'll enjoy Chapter 2 of my book even more. The editor of Muzzle Blasts feels there's no comparison.

 

[fordlover35]

I don't know hardly anything about a flintlock, but this is a damn good thread. Real interesting and very informative....

I total agree. My next gun by will be a flintlock. Thank you guys for all the info.

 

[GENTLEMAN OF THE CHARCOAL]

Well, I probably won't ever get one. I don't have that many guns but I reckon I'vd got more than I can wear out. I know that if you want something then you want something but for me doing it I would just be wasting money and I don't have much money anyway. Do like this thread though....

 

[4v50 Gary]

BTW, in that same issue of the American Rifleman, they've got an article on the House boys. Hershel and John were my instructors in the iron mounted Southern rifle class. We forged our own trigger guards and buttplates. Some of us even poured pewter noses and sawed, ground and filed our own sideplates too. At Hershel's request, I wrote an article on that class that was published in Muzzle Blasts magazine a few years back.

 

[Macmac]

I didn't know you wrote articals Gary. Ever do any for Muzzeloader Magazine out of Texas?


GOC, If ever you run on to a reasonable flinter, the first thing to make sure of is that it is empty!

Then that the lock works right and makes good sparks. If it does it will shoot.

Could be you have a friend somewhere that has one and just lost interest.

Look around in Muzzelblast magazine, Muzzeloader magazine, and on the Smoke N Fire news, for primitive events you can visit.

Most have visitor days, and you can meet folks, and or just wander around looking at things to buy.

If you make anything, that would be about correct for the times back then, you might trade with folks for interesting things too.

Somewhere is the "Western National Rondee Voos" in roughly your area once each year.

I am sure if you went you would find Old gray beards to swap lies with too.

 

[MCgunner]

Yes, extremely informative. Now, I'm probably not going to get to test any firearm I decide to buy. I shoot left handed and will have to look for a left handed gun which is going to be hard enough to find as it is, so I'm figuring I'll have to order it when the time comes. So, I reckon I'm going to have to go for brand names like Lyman and TC (does TC even MAKE a flinter?) or such and skip over the cheaper stuff. That's the one thing that sorta puts me off on this deal. But, if I keep up with this retro mood, I will have to bite sooner or later. I'm all into that danged Hawken again and have been shooting my old recurve again lately. I have come down with something, ain't quite figured out what, yet. I ain't runnin' a temperature or anything, weird..........

Oh, yes, one thing on shooting a flinter, I saw a guy on a show firing a flinter. It was one of those history channel things. He was telling the guy that one had to close his eyes before the trigger was pulled. Big advantage other than lock time of the caplock was you could keep your eyes open. Now, I find this odd. I know there's a lot of crap coming off that pan, but heck, close the eyes????? I do wear safety lenses, anyway, can't see squat without 'em. I don't close my eyes with the Hawken and there's a fair amount of crap coming out the cap when it goes off. Hmmmm.....

 

[mykeal]

There oughta be a law....

Some of the outright crud that these guys on the hunting and history channels are putting out is downright dangerous. No, you don't close your eyes. A good, well time flintlock will go off just as quickly as a caplock, at least as far as the human eye is concerned. And no, you won't get crud in your eye, even if your shooting a wrong handed lock.

The only production left hand flintlock being made currently that I'm aware of right now is the Lyman Great Plains Rifle. It's a fine gun, well worth the money. I own one in .54 flintlock and one in .54 caplock.

 

[arcticap]

The only time that I ever shot a flinter, the gent handed me the .45 long rifle with the pan already primed. I aimed, released the trigger and it fired instantaneously. But the blowback and particulate matter with it billowed up under my safety glasses and irritated my eyes for a long while afterward that day. I considered it to be such a nuisance that it caused me to shy away from ever wanting to shoot a flinter again.
When I posted this before, the guys said that he must have overprimed the pan, maybe intentionally because I was a newbie. But I didn't think that it was intentional because the guys were old timers who didn't even wear hearing protection. It was just second nature to them whereas I must be a lot more sensitive to getting particles in my eyes! So I would say that flinters do need to be wary of the hazards of shooting their individual gun. Maybe some models aren't so bad, while others spew noticiably more. And the better design of modern safety glasses might also do a better job of protecting the eyes from the blowback.

 

[MCgunner]

The only production left hand flintlock being made currently that I'm aware of right now is the Lyman Great Plains Rifle. It's a fine gun, well worth the money. I own one in .54 flintlock and one in .54 caplock.

Actually, that's the one I've been drooling over.

 

[Shultzhaus]

I believe Traditions also makes a "lefty" flinter, called a PA pellet. Maybe they have other models that are left side.