A friendly reminder in dark times....

[silicosys4]

silicosys... read my post a few up... once you define the battle the tools to fight it are not all the same. Heart Disease is my enemy, I do not "kill" my heart, I fight the enemy using diet and exercise.

When the battle is one of politics, you fight the enemy with political actions.

First off, I would agree that you don't want to "kill" your heart....if heart disease is your issue. You want to "kill" the heart disease....as in make it a non entity, no longer in existence.

I am sorry to hear about your heart problem. I have to disagree though. Heart disease is not your enemy, it is simply a consequence of actions and behaviors which determine your health, or lack thereof. Bacon...Coffee...Cigarettes...Genetics...Your poor health practices that led to your heart disease is your enemy....and hence you are your own enemy. If you want to shine the sharp light on others, first shine it on yourself.

"You fight the enemy with political actions". If you are referring to people based on if they vote for one person or another, you'll lose that fight. You don't "fight" the "enemy"...especially if you have to live with them afterwards. You inform your uninformed neighbor, and change his mind. then you both call your politicians and tell them you will vote against them unless...
90% of your "enemy" could be your ally, with the right words and facts and approach. Call them the "enemy" once, though, and they will become your heated opposition that must protect themselves from you and your guns.

 

[Kosta88]

what you just wrote is the key item that Obumer and the others do NOT remember their oath to the constitution!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[taliv]

The ones pushing an agenda aren't the people, regardless of who they vote for. Either way, the people just want to be safe, eat well, and live comfortably. They are the politicians and the media, and judging by this thread, they are very successfully turning us against each other.

and this is where you are wrong. this country is chock full of people who want to use the government to inflict their personal desires on their fellow countrymen. It is exactly the people who are pushing gun control.

look at it the other way. The "NRA" isn't a couple of rich guys pushing all of us to like guns. The "NRA" is four million gun owners pushing a couple rich guys to lobby for us.

As for signs disallowing firearms in businesses on private property...Do your research. For the most part, most of them are not binding by law.

YOU do YOUR research.

Allright, so then your neighbor is your enemy...
What are you going to do about it? Enemies must be eliminated.
If I had an enemy, I'd eliminate them. Enemies want to hurt me, my family, and cause misery.

this has already been addressed. you need to read more and post less, or stop trolling if that's your intent. your silly preoccupation with semantics is an impediment to your ability to reason. the fact is we live in a world where relationships are complex both personally and corporate and between states. the company i work for (500k employees) has many partners and competitors. often, we compete with a company in one area and partner with them in another. the US has a love hate relationship with China and many other countries. We are enemies in some ways and partners in others.

like i said, relationships are complex, and most adults do not have difficulty understanding this. nobody is proposing eliminating your neighbor if they vote for obama. so stop with the strawmans and red herrings.

 

[silicosys4]

"chock full of people who want to use the government to enflict their own personal desires on their fellow countrymen"
people like you who will point the finger while doing the same thing....you are just as willing to force someone else to accommodate your lifestyle as they are you. Lucky for you and me, our constitution was written to protect the correct opinion, or rather, right... But don't play white sheep there.

The NRA is a lobby group. They are supposed to represent their members. They charge membership dues, and are obliged to represent their members' interests.

Elected officials are free from public opinion until their next election. B.O. is free from public opinion for the duration of his next term. They very much ignore the majority of their constituents to pursue their own agendas, as B.O. is ignoring the majority of his constituents when he states that the majority are in favor of an AWB, so he can pursue a ban...which has been on his agenda.

Nice backpedaling to say that your enemies can also be your neighbors. "relationships are complex" but you are willing to declare enemy over ONE issue, and over an opinion at that, your "enemy" doesn't even have to take action, they just have to have an opinion and vote contrary to yours...what a crime. You seem to also think that the average anti-2a is voting specifically on gun issues. Statistically, anti-2a people don't think specifically about guns when they vote, and they don't vote based on their candidates gun views..its secondary to the issues they are actually concerned about.
The one issue voting thing is pretty much a pro2a phenomenon...try and keep that in mind.

en·e·my
/ˈenəmē/
Noun
A person who is actively opposed or hostile to someone or something.
A hostile nation or its armed forces or citizens, esp. in time of war.

Straw men and red herrings...pardon me if I address the flaws and laziness in your arguments, and offer counterpoints.

 

[Shadow 7D]

Allright, so then your neighbor is your enemy...
What are you going to do about it? Enemies must be eliminated.
If I had an enemy, I'd eliminate them. Enemies want to hurt me, my family, and cause misery.
Gonna kill your neighbor? Shoot them with your gun if he doesn't own one and doesn't personally agree that you should own yours, so that you are safe from harm? Do you see the irony? Do you realize how stupid that sounds, and how labeling your neighbor as the enemy over his opinion pretty much justifies and concretes his idea that you shouldn't have one, and smacks of fascism to boot?

Or are you just waxing drama?
Death to America! or at least that 52% that didn't vote like me

Nice strawman and slippery slope...
got anything to add?

 

[BHP FAN]

self deleted

 

[silicosys4]

^^Yea, Obama sucks, I won't argue....but

"BUSH: I did think we ought to extend the assault weapons ban"

http://www.ontheissues.org/celeb/george_w__bush_gun_control.htm

You done?
Politics....sheesh.

 

[taliv]

people like you who will point the finger while doing the same thing....you are just as willing to force someone else to accommodate your lifestyle as they are you.

in what way have i tried to force someone to accommodate my lifestyle? I'm about as libertarian as you can be.

Nice backpedaling to say that your enemies can also be your neighbors.

not backpedaling. it's the first thing i said in this thread. the individuals, your neighbors are the enemy, and the politicians only represent them.

read your own definition. "a person actively opposed to something". that sounds dang near identical to my description of the enemy over this whole thread. while your working definition of "enemy" seems to be someone you shoot at.

The one issue voting thing is pretty much a pro2a phenomenon...try and keep that in mind.

good grief man, i take it you've never been around environmental activists, or aids/GLBT activists, or abortion activists, or anti-war activists, or ...well... dang near anyone. it's as if this is your first political discussion.

 

[ljnowell]

Allright, so then your neighbor is your enemy...
What are you going to do about it? Enemies must be eliminated.
If I had an enemy, I'd eliminate them. Enemies want to hurt me, my family, and cause misery.
Gonna kill your neighbor? Shoot them with your gun if he doesn't own one and doesn't personally agree that you should own yours, so that you are safe from harm? Do you see the irony? Do you realize how stupid that sounds, and how labeling your neighbor as the enemy over his opinion pretty much justifies and concretes his idea that you shouldn't have one, and smacks of fascism to boot?

Or are you just waxing drama?
Death to America! or at least that 52% that didn't vote like me

You are the only person here advocating violence. Are you incapable of having an enemy with expressing yourself violently? Again, quit acting like a child.

 

[ljnowell]

this has already been addressed. you need to read more and post less, or stop trolling if that's your intent. your silly preoccupation with semantics is an impediment to your ability to reason. the fact is we live in a world where relationships are complex both personally and corporate and between states. the company i work for (500k employees) has many partners and competitors. often, we compete with a company in one area and partner with them in another. the US has a love hate relationship with China and many other countries. We are enemies in some ways and partners in others.

Isn't it obvious thats what he is doing? How long till the ban hammer comes down? lol.

 

[soonerfan85]

no message

 

[xXxplosive]

.....and the $42,000.00 question is.........Can't an eleted official be brought charges against for violating his sworn Oath of Office.....seem that would make someone a "T".......IMO.

 

[JustinJ]

this has already been addressed. you need to read more and post less, or stop trolling if that's your intent. your silly preoccupation with semantics is an impediment to your ability to reason. the fact is we live in a world where relationships are complex both personally and corporate and between states. the company i work for (500k employees) has many partners and competitors. often, we compete with a company in one area and partner with them in another. the US has a love hate relationship with China and many other countries. We are enemies in some ways and partners in others.

I'm certainly not one for arguing semantics but i do find the use of the term "enemy" highly objectionable in this context. In no way am i going to accept the term "enemy" to reference loved ones just because they have different opinion than i on what regulations should be in place regarding firearms.

look at it the other way. The "NRA" isn't a couple of rich guys pushing all of us to like guns. The "NRA" is four million gun owners pushing a couple rich guys to lobby for us.

The NRA does have a pretty bad habit of using extremely divisive and polarizing rhetoric to fund raise. The NRA is also largely funded by gun manufacturers who profit from the lobbying efforts of the NRA so i think it is inaccurate to portray the NRA as "grass roots". While i don't care for the level of government influence that corporations can buy in general i don't fault the NRA or gun manufacturers for this specifically as that is unfortunately our political system.

 

[goon]

I watched the testimony of one of the parents of the children killed at Sandy Hook, I believe his name was Heslin, yesterday.
It reminded me of this. I really do feel terrible for the guy and wish there was something that could be done to ease his pain, or to give him back his son. Really, I wish someone had been in place to prevent this in the first place.
I wish that Nancy Lanza had had an easier time getting someone in mental health to pay attention to her kid (which I have read she was desperately trying to do).
I wish Nancy Lanza had never taught that kid to shoot. I wish she had pulled the bolt and slides from her guns and locked them in a pistol safe. I wish Adam Lanza had been pulled over for a broken tail light before he got to the school.

I wish his heart and mind just hadn't been so twisted so he never would have thought to do this in the first place.

But this will happen again. There will be another attack. The next shooter may have a semi-auto weapon, or he may have a shotgun, or he may have several DA .38 revolvers, or he may have ten gallons of gasoline and a bunch of flares.
But there will be another attack. I truly believe that. No amount of abstract legislation on paper is going to make insane people or evil people turn away from their crimes.
And our nation had better get ready to face those attackers and stop them.

 

[Shadow 7D]

Keep it clean and on issue
look at the PM, there's a Triangle with an exclaimation mark
USE IT

personal attacks ARE NOT high road

EDIT:
BTW, there are few things that are PM'd that will get you banned,
stuff like mod warnings and infractions, will yeah get attention
airing an insult or argument related to a thread.....

 

[Shadow 7D]

there is a middle way
attacking one side or the other, does little to sway the middle
I will not debate a rabid anti
to discuss something, one MUST admit or allow for one to be wrong, and be WILLING to shift, open to new ideas etc.

To many anti/pro comes down to: No, you are wrong...
yelling at eachother does little, but I will NOT give an inch (see, I'm right) and I'll back it up. So, for me it's 3 categories

Anti - pointless to argue, too stupid or too set to change (like my Democratic underground troll of a brother)

Undecided - I try to educate and present the other side they miss by being spoon fed by the media

Pro - who I look to for information and facts to back my argument.

Time is best spent on the undecided, once you find that one is an anti and is just as 'right' in their mind as you, it's just a merry go round of one upping and counters. In the mean time, lets not give the gun grabber ammo, rather we really ought to work to present a unified front, see, that's the anti/media trick, they make it seem like .01% is really 51% by presenting their opinion as fact.

 

[silicosys4]

there is a middle way
attacking one side or the other, does little to sway the middle
I will not debate a rabid anti
to discuss something, one MUST admit or allow for one to be wrong, and be WILLING to shift, open to new ideas etc.

To many anti/pro comes down to: No, you are wrong...
yelling at eachother does little, but I will NOT give an inch (see, I'm right) and I'll back it up. So, for me it's 3 categories

Anti - pointless to argue, too stupid or too set to change (like my Democratic underground troll of a brother)

Undecided - I try to educate and present the other side they miss by being spoon fed by the media

Pro - who I look to for information and facts to back my argument.

Time is best spent on the undecided, once you find that one is an anti and is just as 'right' in their mind as you, it's just a merry go round of one upping and counters. In the mean time, lets not give the gun grabber ammo, rather we really ought to work to present a unified front, see, that's the anti/media trick, they make it seem like .01% is really 51% by presenting their opinion as fact.

I would add another one to the list

Ignorant but opinionated - the ones who think they know the truth, but only because they have heard biased or incomplete data. These ones are harder to educate, but I have managed to turn a few of my friends from this side, to full blown pro-2a "not a single more law, repeal old ones" firearm fans.

I believe this is the biggest group out there, and its mostly younger people who have absorbed enough "knowledge" to form an opinion, but not enough real knowledge or facts to have conviction of their opinion.

 

[Xfire68]

you couldn't be more wrong. those gov officials are there because they REPRESENT people who hold the same beliefs. those people are the source of the elected representatives' power.

those people are trying to take away your rights. if you went to war, it would be against your neighbors, the ones who put those politicians in power. they are they enemy, and until they are defeated, politicians would only be replaced with new faces that reflect the same beliefs of our enemy.
__________________

I was scanning the posts til I found someone that said what I was going to say. It did not take to long.

Our enemies are any person or group that wants to reduce, restrict or remove any of our rights.