Drgong
Member
dang mac, your making me get sand in my eyes..
A hunter's lament
- Thread starter MacTech
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MachIVshooter
Member
It could have been worse.
When I first moved into my house in 2004, the previous owners had left a very large, very feral tomcat behind. It was incredibly antisocial, but we continued to leave food out for it. That summer, we adopted another cat. Well, this big tom took to beating up our new cat on a nightly basis. So over the next couple of weeks, I made several attempts to catch it and put it outside. Failed every time. Finally, I got hold of it one day, but when that thing started tearing up my arms with all of it's LARGE claws and biting me, I had to let go. It shot downstairs and into the laundry room, where it got up into the ceiling. So I put food and water in that room and closed the doors. three days passed, and it hadn't come down yet. At this point, I began to worry that it would die up there and I'd have to tear apart the basement ceiling to get it out. I tried to drive it out with smoke bombs, which didn't work at all. Then I tried to snare it, but there was simply no way-the cat's body took up all the space between the joists. So I cut a small piece of drywall out at the very back of the section between floor joists where the cat was hiding. I could see it with a mirror, but there was no way to access it without destroying my basement. I tried using blanks to drive it out with noise, but that didn't work either. I got the idea that we would get it to face away from the hole I had cut, and I'd shoot it in the butt with a .22 Shotshell. After all, those shotshells should little more than sting from 12 feet away. So we got it turned the right way, and I stuck my revolver up into the hole. BANG! The cat shot out of there and into a corner, where I was able to retrieve it with thick leather gloves. At this point I discovered that the cat had turned around between the time my then-wife got it's attention and the time she got to a safe place and I pulled the trigger; The cat took those #12 pellets right to the face, severely damaging it's eyes. Knowing what I had to do, I took the injured cat out to the garage and went back inside to reload with .22 short hollowpoints. I went back out into the garage, where I found the cat crouching under my motorcycle and hissing like I've never heard. I leveled the revolver and fired from about 4 feet away, hitting it just below the ear. That cat shot out from under the bike and ran across the garage, where it jumped for a closed window and then fell to the ground. It got back up into the window and continued hissing and screaming, bleeding everywhere. So I grabbed it and got it back on the concrete, where I shot it in the head AGAIN. It ran back under the motorcycle, now obviously very damaged, but still alive. Four more bullets, and it ceased to move. Every round had fully penetrated the animal, you could see lead and blood splattered beneath where it had been.
We buried it, and if I'm ever forced to kill another cat, I'll be using more than a .22. That is one animal that does not die easily (or quietly).
So be glad that you didn't have to see that from this fox. I went from the intention of putting this cat outside where it could live out it's life to the reality of euthenasia-by-bullet gone horribly wrong.
When I first moved into my house in 2004, the previous owners had left a very large, very feral tomcat behind. It was incredibly antisocial, but we continued to leave food out for it. That summer, we adopted another cat. Well, this big tom took to beating up our new cat on a nightly basis. So over the next couple of weeks, I made several attempts to catch it and put it outside. Failed every time. Finally, I got hold of it one day, but when that thing started tearing up my arms with all of it's LARGE claws and biting me, I had to let go. It shot downstairs and into the laundry room, where it got up into the ceiling. So I put food and water in that room and closed the doors. three days passed, and it hadn't come down yet. At this point, I began to worry that it would die up there and I'd have to tear apart the basement ceiling to get it out. I tried to drive it out with smoke bombs, which didn't work at all. Then I tried to snare it, but there was simply no way-the cat's body took up all the space between the joists. So I cut a small piece of drywall out at the very back of the section between floor joists where the cat was hiding. I could see it with a mirror, but there was no way to access it without destroying my basement. I tried using blanks to drive it out with noise, but that didn't work either. I got the idea that we would get it to face away from the hole I had cut, and I'd shoot it in the butt with a .22 Shotshell. After all, those shotshells should little more than sting from 12 feet away. So we got it turned the right way, and I stuck my revolver up into the hole. BANG! The cat shot out of there and into a corner, where I was able to retrieve it with thick leather gloves. At this point I discovered that the cat had turned around between the time my then-wife got it's attention and the time she got to a safe place and I pulled the trigger; The cat took those #12 pellets right to the face, severely damaging it's eyes. Knowing what I had to do, I took the injured cat out to the garage and went back inside to reload with .22 short hollowpoints. I went back out into the garage, where I found the cat crouching under my motorcycle and hissing like I've never heard. I leveled the revolver and fired from about 4 feet away, hitting it just below the ear. That cat shot out from under the bike and ran across the garage, where it jumped for a closed window and then fell to the ground. It got back up into the window and continued hissing and screaming, bleeding everywhere. So I grabbed it and got it back on the concrete, where I shot it in the head AGAIN. It ran back under the motorcycle, now obviously very damaged, but still alive. Four more bullets, and it ceased to move. Every round had fully penetrated the animal, you could see lead and blood splattered beneath where it had been.
We buried it, and if I'm ever forced to kill another cat, I'll be using more than a .22. That is one animal that does not die easily (or quietly).
So be glad that you didn't have to see that from this fox. I went from the intention of putting this cat outside where it could live out it's life to the reality of euthenasia-by-bullet gone horribly wrong.
Without purchasing another gun, you may want to investigate a Metro Gun barrel extension for your Mossberg
http://www.metrogun.com/order.html. It would quiet down the 12 gauge to avoid bothering the horses. Unfortunately, it also costs as much as some of the other options listed.
- Sig
http://www.metrogun.com/order.html. It would quiet down the 12 gauge to avoid bothering the horses. Unfortunately, it also costs as much as some of the other options listed.
- Sig
Treo
member
Um I don't want to be the one to say this, but there are foxes all over my nieghborhood and where I work and you're not describing the actions of a rabid fox. What you are describing ( before you shot) is a habituated fox that is used to humans.
I'm not saying this to dump more crap on you, I'm hopping you will read up on what symptoms a rabid animal displays before you do any more shooting.
I'm sorry but I couldn't think of a nice way to say it.
I'm not saying this to dump more crap on you, I'm hopping you will read up on what symptoms a rabid animal displays before you do any more shooting.
I'm sorry but I couldn't think of a nice way to say it.
rcnixon
Member
MacTech, you went after the wounded animal, tracked and found it and dispatched it. You were undergunned but you did not fail as a hunter. You ended the animal's suffering and protected your family and kine. You learned a couple of valuable lesson. Use enough gun and as with any game animal, aim for the pumps.
Don't beat yourself up any more.
Russ
Don't beat yourself up any more.
Russ
Chihuahua Floyd
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- 46
Treo,
rabid or " habituated " still gets shot around me. Wild animals without fear of humans, predators espicially, are dangerous.
I will always err on the side of overkill it something has teeth and claws which can hurt me.
I have seen a dog shot between the eyes with a 22 LR hollowpoint get real mad about it.
44 mag calmed it right down.
I know my brother-in-law hit it between the eyes cause I dug up the skull to check.
CF
rabid or " habituated " still gets shot around me. Wild animals without fear of humans, predators espicially, are dangerous.
I will always err on the side of overkill it something has teeth and claws which can hurt me.
I have seen a dog shot between the eyes with a 22 LR hollowpoint get real mad about it.
44 mag calmed it right down.
I know my brother-in-law hit it between the eyes cause I dug up the skull to check.
CF
If you're looking for a varmint caliber that isn't too loud consider the venerable .22 Hornet. Quiet and good for a fox-sized animal. I learned long ago that with small animals it takes a surprising amount of damage to humanely finish them off. In some cases a chest shot works faster than a headshot. I remember as a kid a friend of mine had tried to take out a bird with his bb gun and it was flapping all over the place, unable to fly. He shot it once more in the head and then was too squeamish to continue, basically begging me to finish it off. I had a more powerful bb gun and tried 2 more headshots, point-blank, and it just kept flapping until it took one in the chest and stopped immediately. Some other varmints I've seen took head shots and kept going as well, just something to consider...
Anyway, I'd recommend the Hornet for low noise, but if the noise issue can be worked around by moving the horses before shooting, etc. then go bigger. .243 is very popular for deer in some states, and .223 is available in so many variations you could have a bullet for almost anything short of deer...
gp911
Anyway, I'd recommend the Hornet for low noise, but if the noise issue can be worked around by moving the horses before shooting, etc. then go bigger. .243 is very popular for deer in some states, and .223 is available in so many variations you could have a bullet for almost anything short of deer...
gp911
MacTech
Member
I think I found the rifle that would fit my needs for a more powerful varminting arm;
the requirements are;
clean, humane, one-shot kills whenever possible (this is based on my skill level), this requires more bullet performance than can be had by a .22LR
compact, easy handling, carbine-length barrel long arms respond quicker than full-size rifles, yet the drawback is long-range accuracy, I'm not going to be taking long range shots, max. range will likely be 100-150 yards
relatively quiet report, the .22 is a *very* quiet rifle, yet the bullet lacks sufficient power to take down anything larger than a gray squirrel in my experience
short, quiet, powerful is what I'm looking for
I've narrowed the likely candidates down to....
H&R/NEF .243 single-shot carbine
Kel-Tec Sub-2000 9mm
my local gunshop has a used one of each, the H&R .243 is around $180, the Kel-Tec Sub 2000 is $225
right now, the Kel-Tec has a slight edge over the H&R, even though it's more expensive, mainly because
1; I already own a 9mm handgun, I won't have to stock yet another caliber of ammo, commonality of ammo is a big advantage
2; I know the 9mm has more power than the .22LR, and has more bullet design options, the 9mm would have most likely dispatched the fox in one shot, assuming I was able to place the round accurately
3; the 9mm will be quieter than my other available firearm (12-gauge slugs or buckshot), and more than likely be quieter than the .243 which is a full-powered rifle cartridge
4; I imagine the 9mm would not overpenetrate as badly as a .243, as the 9 is a handgun cartridge, and less powerful than a rifle cartridge
5; the Sub-2000 is an "Evil Black Rifle" and may be under the crosshairs of another gun ban if the antis get their way
the requirements are;
clean, humane, one-shot kills whenever possible (this is based on my skill level), this requires more bullet performance than can be had by a .22LR
compact, easy handling, carbine-length barrel long arms respond quicker than full-size rifles, yet the drawback is long-range accuracy, I'm not going to be taking long range shots, max. range will likely be 100-150 yards
relatively quiet report, the .22 is a *very* quiet rifle, yet the bullet lacks sufficient power to take down anything larger than a gray squirrel in my experience
short, quiet, powerful is what I'm looking for
I've narrowed the likely candidates down to....
H&R/NEF .243 single-shot carbine
Kel-Tec Sub-2000 9mm
my local gunshop has a used one of each, the H&R .243 is around $180, the Kel-Tec Sub 2000 is $225
right now, the Kel-Tec has a slight edge over the H&R, even though it's more expensive, mainly because
1; I already own a 9mm handgun, I won't have to stock yet another caliber of ammo, commonality of ammo is a big advantage
2; I know the 9mm has more power than the .22LR, and has more bullet design options, the 9mm would have most likely dispatched the fox in one shot, assuming I was able to place the round accurately
3; the 9mm will be quieter than my other available firearm (12-gauge slugs or buckshot), and more than likely be quieter than the .243 which is a full-powered rifle cartridge
4; I imagine the 9mm would not overpenetrate as badly as a .243, as the 9 is a handgun cartridge, and less powerful than a rifle cartridge
5; the Sub-2000 is an "Evil Black Rifle" and may be under the crosshairs of another gun ban if the antis get their way
This is just not so. Had you aimed into a more lilkely 'kill' zone you may well have dispatched the fox with just one shot. A neck shot is no easy shot, and certainly not one that makes a one shot kill likely unless you sever the spine. I am saying neck shot because you say you centered your aim between the head and body, and that would mean the neck. The problem is you aimed at a curled up fox into what you thought was a one shot kill area and it was not, probably due to the way the body was twisted in that position, and because if curled the neck muscles are tensed on at least one side. If that is the side you hit, well just tougher to penetrate.
Your judgement as where to shoot for a supposed one shot kill does not necessarily make the ammo at fault. Could you please explain why you did not take a head shot. Maybe I am not seeing the picture correctly, but to me it seems that a fox laying on the ground facing you probably exposed enough of the top of the head to shoot it there squarely, and at a good enough angle so as to allow penetration of the skull.
It stinks that the fox suffered, but it would have been much worse if indeed it was rabid and bit someone or one of your horses. You did the right thing in killing it, I hope you were very cautious in handling it while disposing of it.
Treo
member
If that works for you fine. The Foxes around here aren't that agressive & there's no known out break of rabies here. Given that I can't find justification for shooting every habituated fox I see.
As for this particular instance I don't know, I wasn't there and nothing I say is going to change what happened.
The OP made the decision, took the shot and followed up to make sure there wasn't an more needless suffering. Good job, it's more than some that post here would do.
Hopefully the OP will ask himself if the shot is really necessary next time, but that's not my call .
cassandrasdaddy
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we've had a couple folks near here bitten by rabid foxes. any that act strange here are in trouble
MacTech
Member
Treo my sister has a miniature dachsund, we have two cats, my sister has two kids, 6 and 3 years old, she runs a horsemanship/art summer camp, and also boards horses for other equestrian owners
In our case, a human-habituated fox would be dangerous, a fox with no fear of humans, and curious, precocious youngsters running around, wanting to play with the new and interesting furry "freind"? seems like a problem waiting to happen
In our case, a human-habituated fox would be dangerous, a fox with no fear of humans, and curious, precocious youngsters running around, wanting to play with the new and interesting furry "freind"? seems like a problem waiting to happen
ezypikns
Member
It was a Fox.
Not a Human Being. You did what you needed to do. Don't sweat it. I'm a hunter. As crazy as it sounds, I love the animals I may be hunting. I never just shoot to hear the gun go off and see something die, but if I had had concerns like you, I would have done excactly the same thing. And I wouldn't lose a minutes sleep over it either.
Not a Human Being. You did what you needed to do. Don't sweat it. I'm a hunter. As crazy as it sounds, I love the animals I may be hunting. I never just shoot to hear the gun go off and see something die, but if I had had concerns like you, I would have done excactly the same thing. And I wouldn't lose a minutes sleep over it either.
Yeah that's why I use a .223 for anything bigger than a squirrel. Heck I'll even use it on a squirrel. It's been the perfect varmint round for me. One shot kills. At most they just flop for a couple seconds then stop. I never want to have to deal with a wounded animal. It sucks to have to walk right up on it as it's in its death throes and finish the job you should've done right in the first place.
I forgot that I had birdshot in my 12ga once and pelted a raccoon with it. I heard the thud of impact and saw it run off into the darkness. After that I got a laser and light for my M4 and never looked back. Head shot almost every time now as well as excellent target ID.
I forgot that I had birdshot in my 12ga once and pelted a raccoon with it. I heard the thud of impact and saw it run off into the darkness. After that I got a laser and light for my M4 and never looked back. Head shot almost every time now as well as excellent target ID.
HeadlandRam
Member
Don't beat yourself up over. Stuff happens. You intend for something and it does not work out, It happened to ALL of us. Next time ( If you have one ) Use a .410
Treo
member
Mac Tech
Like I said I wasn't there, it wasn't my call. You handled the situation the best way you know how. I've read at least one post here about a guy who took a shot at a coyote, wounded it and let it go. You didn't do that.
Oddly enough while I was typing this a fox walked up to the front gate where I'm at and sat there waiting for the gate to open. I expect I'll run into him at least once on my next walk through
Like I said I wasn't there, it wasn't my call. You handled the situation the best way you know how. I've read at least one post here about a guy who took a shot at a coyote, wounded it and let it go. You didn't do that.
Oddly enough while I was typing this a fox walked up to the front gate where I'm at and sat there waiting for the gate to open. I expect I'll run into him at least once on my next walk through
Triphammer
Member
You brought plenty of gun. I've taken dozens of racoon, several fox, a coyote, a hundred or more woodchucks & a couple of beef w/ a 22 LR with head shots. Your first shot was a neck shot, an area with very little quick effect structure.
Having said that, I long ago switched to a 22 mag for almost all my 22 needs & the difference is obvious. Heart/ lung shots work almost as quickly as a 22 lr w/ head shots.
Having said that, I long ago switched to a 22 mag for almost all my 22 needs & the difference is obvious. Heart/ lung shots work almost as quickly as a 22 lr w/ head shots.
I have a picture somewhere of a squirrel that I put two holes clean through it's head, took the second shot to put it down.
You had plenty of gun, But the mini mags have bad expansion on a small animal, very little time to expand before it left the body. CCI sub HP expand like mad and do a ton of damage as it rumbles through.
Out of curiosity, how far away were you?
That's why I use a red dot on my rimfires that I hunt with.
Deus Machina
Member
Sorry to hear about all that. Don't think I could do anything like that if I wasn't going to eat it. I've been out of sorts because I had to put down mice caught in those sticky traps.
But if you need more gun, and won't be using it for much major hunting, how about a Mosin? Big enough for people, and dirt cheap.
But if you need more gun, and won't be using it for much major hunting, how about a Mosin? Big enough for people, and dirt cheap.
I recall several years ago walking into a field to shoot doves.
Heard a godawful wail come out of a fencerow, then a feral cat shot out right toward me and a buddy.
Spun around and snapshot the cat. 12 ga 7.5's did the trick.
Mentioned it to the property owner on the other side of me. He said he had seen that cat in his field acting odd.
Bottom line, do what ya gotta do. I becomes difficult more and more with human encroachment to really determine if an animal is rabid, sick, etc.
When in doubt, take it out. Safety first.
Heard a godawful wail come out of a fencerow, then a feral cat shot out right toward me and a buddy.
Spun around and snapshot the cat. 12 ga 7.5's did the trick.
Mentioned it to the property owner on the other side of me. He said he had seen that cat in his field acting odd.
Bottom line, do what ya gotta do. I becomes difficult more and more with human encroachment to really determine if an animal is rabid, sick, etc.
When in doubt, take it out. Safety first.
BADUNAME37
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I have a Ruger Mark II 10" barrel 22 pistol. Deadly accurate.
Anyway, about two years ago I caught a large racoon in my havahart trap. The racoons were wreaking havoc in our garden.
A neighbor of mine was a game warden (he has since moved). I called him and asked him if he wanted the racoon. He said he could use the carcass as he was starting a class that night on trapping and how to skin an animal.
I took the 22 out back with the calmest loads I have (Eley Xtra 40g round nose - blue label). I've chronied them at 1,020 FPS.
I walked up to the poor thing and it was looking up at me like "what are you going to do?"
I shot it in the top of the head from about three inches away (just between the cage top wires).
I watched the poor thing flop all around in the cage for about 20-30 seconds, but to me it seemed like forever.
I told the game warden how sad it was and he said, "yeah, they do that."
I don't think I could do that again. I'm almost teary-eyed thinking back on it.
Anyway, about two years ago I caught a large racoon in my havahart trap. The racoons were wreaking havoc in our garden.
A neighbor of mine was a game warden (he has since moved). I called him and asked him if he wanted the racoon. He said he could use the carcass as he was starting a class that night on trapping and how to skin an animal.
I took the 22 out back with the calmest loads I have (Eley Xtra 40g round nose - blue label). I've chronied them at 1,020 FPS.
I walked up to the poor thing and it was looking up at me like "what are you going to do?"
I shot it in the top of the head from about three inches away (just between the cage top wires).
I watched the poor thing flop all around in the cage for about 20-30 seconds, but to me it seemed like forever.
I told the game warden how sad it was and he said, "yeah, they do that."
I don't think I could do that again. I'm almost teary-eyed thinking back on it.
Last edited:
Dr. Tad Hussein Winslow
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Thank you for sharing and let this be a lesson to everyone - let's kill HUMANELY when killing is done to animals. There's a thread right now about .22 hornet for coyotes, and for some reason the guy doesn't want to go "all the way to" a .223 rem. 
I find it kind of ridiculous. I think .223 ideally is about the minimum for our small dog-like friends who invade our farms. Err on the side of clean kills folks - thanks!
"I'm coming Elizabeth, this is the big one!"
I find it kind of ridiculous. I think .223 ideally is about the minimum for our small dog-like friends who invade our farms. Err on the side of clean kills folks - thanks! "I'm coming Elizabeth, this is the big one!" koja48
member
Mac ~
Doesn't sound to me like the fox was rabid, but it was acting "off-normal" and you took the appropriate course of action. Given what you had available, the shotgun would have been a more judiicious option. You can't help but feel bad, but on occasion such events occur . . . you're human & you care . . . that's a good thing! I'm a lifelong hunter, and I care. If you have a burning desire to buy another rifle for varmint-type critters, consider something in .223 . . . plentiful, reasonably priced ammo, accurate & virtually every long gun manufacturer makes one. Shake it off . . .
Doesn't sound to me like the fox was rabid, but it was acting "off-normal" and you took the appropriate course of action. Given what you had available, the shotgun would have been a more judiicious option. You can't help but feel bad, but on occasion such events occur . . . you're human & you care . . . that's a good thing! I'm a lifelong hunter, and I care. If you have a burning desire to buy another rifle for varmint-type critters, consider something in .223 . . . plentiful, reasonably priced ammo, accurate & virtually every long gun manufacturer makes one. Shake it off . . .
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