A lot of history in them Colts

[Crawdad1]

Pretty fascinated by the number of entries in newspapers throughout the country during the periods of roughly 1850 through 1870 of the Colt's revolver. Although a lot turned out to be nothing more than advertisements and auctions, in a lot of these auctions of people's property the only firearm listed was a Colt revolver, but some interesting fights are also described.

Here is an article in the Glasgow Weekly Times, June 03, 1858, Glasgow Missouri,

"A duet came off at this Fort on the 1st of April, between Mr. Blessingdale of New York city, a clerk of Livingston & Kinkead, Sutlers, and Private Michael Flinn, of Company C, 3d Dragoons distance twenty paces.- - They exchanged three shots with Coil's revolvers. Blessingdale was badly wounded. Flynn also was wounded in the leg so badly, that amputation was necessary, which took place on the 4th inst., by surgeon Mills, U. S. A. The patient proved too weak, and death ensued. Flynn was on old, tried, and trusty soldier, much loved by all his companions, and his company has sustained by his demise a heavy loss. Blessingdale has fled."

Interesting also is the way they fought described similar to a European style duel.

 

[expat_alaska]

I never understood why those duels ever occurred. I guess it was of the era when folks had to display their "manhood" and if one party decided he did not want to participate he was considered a coward.

Long time ago.

Jim

 

[Crawdad1]

Jim, right now I'm sorting through some other pages to see a better description of the 'Duel' as in did a third party pace off 20 paces or just how did it proceed. Frustrating as there doesn't seem to be any follow up records such as a coroner's report or any grand jury testimony following the fight.

Another pretty frustrating search was through those advertisements where the prices for a Colt's revolver are not listed. But what is interesting is where I found the Colt's cartridges or a box of paper cartridges was in advertisements back east in the New York newspapers nothing out west so far only flasks are listed.

 

[Driftwood Johnson]

Howdy

Dueling was formalized under the Irish Code Duello in 1777. It was considered a way for gentlemen to maintain their honor after a perceived slight. Contrary to popular opinion, a duel was not always fought to the death, it usually ended when one or the other had been injured or wounded sufficiently that he could not continue the fight.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Code_duello

https://www.sos.mo.gov/CMSImages/MDH/CodeDuello.pdf

https://people.howstuffworks.com/duel2.htm



The typical fast draw dueling seen is Western movies is mostly myth, however James Butler Hickock (Wild Bill) did indeed kill Dave Tutt on July 21, 1865 in the town square in Springfield Missouri with one shot from his 36 caliber Navy Colt from a distance of about 75 yards.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wild_Bill_Hickok_–_Davis_Tutt_shootout


The price the US Army paid for the first shipment of Colt Single Action Army revolvers in 1873 was $13 each.

 

[Crawdad1]

DJ, have you found anything on the prices of a '51 Colt during the gold rush to California during the 1850s?

I can't find any prices for these revolvers they're selling in these advertisements in St. Louis during that period.

 

[Driftwood Johnson]

No

 

[Ephraim Kibbey]

Here is the price of a Peacemaker in 1870:

https://www.nps.gov/common/uploads/teachers/lessonplans/1870CatalogueofGoods.pdf

This just says pistol so it could be a muzzleloader or a revolver:

http://www.michaellamarr.com/grprices.html

 

[Crawdad1]

I know EK you really have to be careful on the terms or words they use. Saw an ad for the "Allen revolver" which has to be the Ethan Allen Pepperbox. The Sharp's seven shot repeater has to be the Spencer seven shot repeater.

 

[Driftwood Johnson]

This just says pistol so it could be a muzzleloader or a revolver:

Those prices are inflated. Merchants near the gold rush charged as much as they could.

 

[Crawdad1]

Definitely, as even in St. Louis vendor's were inflating their prices as customers were arming up to cross the plains heading for the California gold fields.

But a Peacemaker in 1870????

I should try a different search term to see if I can get any more information out of these newspapers. I know there were prices listed for the rifles and shotguns being sold in St. Louis as listed in 'The Hawken Rifle' by Charles E. Hanson, Jr., but I'll keep looking for revolver prices.

 

[Ephraim Kibbey]

Was the term "Peacemaker" ever applied (even unofficially) to the conversions that Colt sold prior to the 1873 Peacemaker?

 

[Crawdad1]

That's very possible. And probably the explanation right there.

Just for what we call today a 'Pepperbox' I've seen it referred to in contemporary newspaper articles as a 'multiple barreled revolver' and an 'Allen's revolver'

A lot of names for the same handgun.

 

[Crawdad1]

Still haven't found any other records for that gunfight or 'duel' described above. Doesn't seem like there were any legal proceedings started as a result of this. Be great to see some eye witnesses accounts on how this fight played out.

 

[daboyleroy]

Pretty fascinated by the number of entries in newspapers throughout the country during the periods of roughly 1850 through 1870 of the Colt's revolver. Although a lot turned out to be nothing more than advertisements and auctions, in a lot of these auctions of people's property the only firearm listed was a Colt revolver, but some interesting fights are also described.

Here is an article in the Glasgow Weekly Times, June 03, 1858, Glasgow Missouri,

"A duet came off at this Fort on the 1st of April, between Mr. Blessingdale of New York city, a clerk of Livingston & Kinkead, Sutlers, and Private Michael Flinn, of Company C, 3d Dragoons distance twenty paces.- - They exchanged three shots with Coil's revolvers. Blessingdale was badly wounded. Flynn also was wounded in the leg so badly, that amputation was necessary, which took place on the 4th inst., by surgeon Mills, U. S. A. The patient proved too weak, and death ensued. Flynn was on old, tried, and trusty soldier, much loved by all his companions, and his company has sustained by his demise a heavy loss. Blessingdale has fled."

Interesting also is the way they fought described similar to a European style duel.

Morning
Take a look at....https://historytravelfight.com/blog/4deadin5seconds

 

[Crawdad1]

Great information.

A Thuer converted snubnose 1860 Army. Gary does this historically accurate conversion,

http://www.cartridgeconversion.com/

 

[Driftwood Johnson]

Was the term "Peacemaker" ever applied (even unofficially) to the conversions that Colt sold prior to the 1873 Peacemaker?

No, as far as I can tell.

A quick scan of the chapters on Thuer Conversions, Richards Conversions, Richards Mason Conversions, and Open Top models (the four types of conversions made by Colt) in the extensive 'A Study of Colt Conversions and other Percussion Revolvers' by R. Bruce McDowell, finds no mention of the word peacemaker. Contemporary advertising by Colt refered to the Richards Conversion as 'Colt's New Breech Loading Metallic Cartridge Revolvers'.

The first reference I find to the word peacemaker is in Kopec's 'A Study of the Colt Single Action Army Revolver'. He refers to a group of distributors as 'a pool which in 1875 and 1876 bought altogether 12,000 Peacemakers at $10.50 each'.

Although the word peacemaker was used unofficially for many years when referring to the Colt Single Action Army, it was not an official model name. A patent drawing from 1871, 1872, and 1875 refers to the SAA as Colt Army Revolver, Caliber 45 (Colt Single Action Army). Do not be fooled by the 1871 and 1872 dates, this is just a patent drawing, the SAA did not begin production until 1873.

Today, the word Peacemaker is a registered trademark of the Colt company, and they will sue the pants off of anyone who uses the name. I believe when the 2nd Generation of the SAA appeared in 1954 was the first time Colt used the word Peacemaker to officially describe the model.

Of course, none of this means that someone was not using the name in the 19th Century to describe a different gun than the SAA. Copyright infringements were much more common then than they are today.

 

[4v50 Gary]

Interesting that the dueling even occurred. You'd think the provost would have stopped it and if not stop it, arrest Blessingdale for the killing of an American soldier.

 

[bannockburn]

daboyleroy

Great read! Thanks for posting the link!

 

[Crawdad1]

Here is an interesting part,

"After the court proceedings, Constable Krempkau entered the local saloon to retrieve his weapons. George Campbell and John Hale confronted the Constable, accusing him of being overly friendly with the Mexicans. As their confrontation went on, a drunken John Hale suddenly grabbed one of Campbell’s pistols and shot Constable Krempkau at near point blank range. Krempkau stumbled backward in shock and pain."

Retrieve his weapons at the saloon. Why were they there? Also, if you notice including the fight between Wild Bill Hickok and Davis Tutt, in these gunfights they don't seem to last very long.

I have yet to find a fight were the participants RELOADED their weapons.

 

[Ephraim Kibbey]

My guess, because of the phrase at the beginning "After the court proceedings," :

If he was a witness to finding the bodies and not a bailiff or officer of the court for the judge, he would probably not have been allowed to carry his weapons into the court room (often only the judge was armed) and so he had checked them with the saloon keeper.

 

[daboyleroy]

Here is an interesting part,

"After the court proceedings, Constable Krempkau entered the local saloon to retrieve his weapons. George Campbell and John Hale confronted the Constable, accusing him of being overly friendly with the Mexicans. As their confrontation went on, a drunken John Hale suddenly grabbed one of Campbell’s pistols and shot Constable Krempkau at near point blank range. Krempkau stumbled backward in shock and pain."

Retrieve his weapons at the saloon. Why were they there? Also, if you notice including the fight between Wild Bill Hickok and Davis Tutt, in these gunfights they don't seem to last very long.

I have yet to find a fight were the participants RELOADED their weapons.

Somewhere between reading, cowboy movies, and tv shows.....in the wild frontier towns the guns had to be “checked at the door”

Most of the doors that I remember were at the sheriffs or lawman’s office.
I also agree with Mr. Kibbey....hot tempers, the law/lawyers, and guns did not mix well in court. If I was a judge.....you could bet the farm or something sweet... I would, for sure be packing. Sorta like preachers (unfortunately) are today.

Also thank you Mr. Bannockburn.

The below gives a little more details.
https://www.geni.com/people/Dallas-Stoudenmire-CSA-lawman-and-gunfighter/6000000014092707215
Also you have to remember back then, the papers did not gives all the details. The short stories booklets were like the paperbacks with the bare chested women on the cover of today. They were wanting to get you attention and stretched the true sometimes.


Added:
“The newspaper stories of the late 1800’s were very colorful and often contained considerable exaggeration. This exaggeration was intended for the benefit of the folks back east, those not adventurous enough to “tame the west”. The articles made for enjoyable reading at the time, and still do, but now hamper any attempt to collect historical fact. Much is now left up to speculation and imagination. Adding to this problem was a "feud" between staff at the Lone Star and the Times. This feud was never more evident than when the Department lost their first officer in the line-of-duty. The two papers had stories that were completely different. The Lone Star actually focused on the editor of the Times being directly involved!”

https://www.elpasotexas.gov/police-department/about-us/history-of-eppd

 

[Crawdad1]

Trying to access the old court records to see some of their documents trying to get more detail or collaborating evidence. Kind of hit a brick wall with this however. Anyone know where Stoudenmire's Colts are?

 

[daboyleroy]

Trying to access the old court records to see some of their documents trying to get more detail or collaborating evidence. Kind of hit a brick wall with this however. Anyone know where Stoudenmire's Colts are?

https://books.google.com/books?id=1WDki03LZFwC&pg=PA62&lpg=PA62&dq=anyone+know+where+stoudenmire+colts+are&source=bl&ots=ovCFx-QVXq&sig=nWlR8VI5E1fYtazbmFj1Mg54HEs&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwiXy-CxupfYAhVITCYKHaHaDP4Q6AEIJDAA#v=onepage&q=anyone know where stoudenmire colts are&f=false

 

[Ephraim Kibbey]

Here are two, a Colt 1860 conversion and an S&W model 3 American:

http://sweetheartsofthewest.blogspot.com/2012/06/marshal-dallas-stoudenmire-cure-as-bad.html

 

[Crawdad1]

That looks like a Thuer conversion to me, however in a lot of these conversion the loading lever or evidence of a loading lever was still present after the conversion.

Great information guys!!