A Minor with CCW License?

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This45Colt

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First off, I do want want to be starting any massive debates or anything of the sort, but I'd like some input on this.
I am an extremely level headed minor living in the state of NH. A close friend of my family was telling me about his gun lawyer, who's son (under 18) has his CCW permit. I was sort of shocked, I was sure that the minimum age was 18... I was quickly told otherwise... From what I gathered speaking to his lawyer on the phone, he stated that there is no minimum age required to apply for a license, and as long as said minor has no criminal record and is a "suitable person to posses a firearm" (In which case I am for hunting purposes etc) then that minor could be licensed. Now where most people stop this argument is under 159:12, which deals with sale to minors. However, as Mr. Lawyer told me, the language used states that a revolver given from parent to child is totally legal. The reason for it being a revolver is that is that that's only weapon mentioned in writing, and a automatic might put you in a gray area. So long and short of it is, this lawyer told me that if I were to have ID (drivers license, non driver ID etc) and the firearm (specifically a revolver) was given to me by a parent, then it is totally legal and I could take the PD to court if I was denied.

Now I do want to say that I am not some Rambo who wants to be carrying a gun all over, I know its a huge responsibility and there are many many things to take into account before even making the choice, and on top of all that I wouldn't want to carry on a daily basis anyway. I am very active and I'd rather not be weighed down by a couple pounds of steel. Rather, my reason for wanting to obtain the license is for hunting. (which btw is considered a suitable reason to be licensed) I ride a quad/ get in and out of a truck while open carrying (for bears) and its a pain to be loading and unloading a gun to stay within the law. One must have a license to carry a loaded gun (open or not) on/in a motor vehicle.

I am really busy with school however, so I might need to wait for the summer in the event that it becomes a very involved process.

Thoughts? (any legal professionals/knowledgeable individuals present?)
 
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Depends on your town/city's Police Chief. I am 19 but I still don't have my permit due to the city of Somersworth's Police Chief and his "21, no expections" rule despite it going against RSA: 159:6. I talked to Penny S. Dean who is a firearms lawyer and she said that she personally knows a 17 year old with a Pistol License (In NH it's a pistol license and not a CCW, there is a difference) so it's very much possible. I can possibly help you further if you send me a private message of what city/town you live in.

I would recommend talking to the Police Chief first about this before applying and show him the law in a friendly manner and not a "stuck up, in your face, this is the law, give me the permit or else court" kind of manner. If he says no then you can take him to court if you want but the political aspect of it is that the Judge if they are local may side with the Police Chief and it could be appealed up to County.

I'm looking to just carry and I'm still trying to figure out how to get my permit without having to go through the courts to get it. At the moment I'm restricted to Open Carry. I defiantly understand where you are right now as I'm in the same spot. You might be more fortunate with living in a less Liberal town then Somersworth.
 
You would think that people old enough to join the Army are old enough to carry concealed.
 
Owen Sparks said:
You would think that people old enough to join the Army are old enough to carry concealed.
Click to expand...

They also aren't old enough to drink. We can die for our country, but we can't carry a gun or drink within its borders.

ETA: Not that I want to drink, I have never had a sip of alcohol in my [almost] 20 years.
 
Here in Vermont, the age is 16 for a minor to posses a gun 'without permission' of a parent or guardian:

http://www.leg.state.vt.us/statutes/fullchapter.cfm?Title=13&Chapter=085

The Vermont Statutes Online
Title 13: Crimes and Criminal Procedure
Chapter 85: WEAPONS


§ 4007. Furnishing firearms to children

A person, firm or corporation, other than a parent or guardian, who sells or furnishes to a minor under the age of 16 years a firearm or other dangerous weapon or ammunition for firearms shall be fined not more than $50.00 nor less than $10.00. This section shall not apply to an instructor or teacher who furnishes firearms to pupils for instruction and drill.

§ 4008. Possession of firearms by children

A child under the age of 16 years shall not, without the consent of his or her parents or guardian, have in his or her possession or control a pistol or revolver constructed or designed for the use of gunpowder or other explosive substance with leaden ball or shot. A child who violates a provision of this section shall be deemed a delinquent child under the provisions of chapter 52 of Title 33.
 
Thanks... But I don't live in VT... I live in NH, so VT law doesn't help me a whole ton... But hey, I wish we had constitutional carry too...
 
Here is the relevant NH Statute you are looking for:

http://www.gencourt.state.nh.us/rsa/html/XII/159/159-12.htm

I. Any person who shall sell, barter, hire, lend or give to any minor any pistol or revolver shall be guilty of a misdemeanor.
II. This section shall not apply to:
(a) Fathers, mothers, grandparents, guardians, administrators or executors who give a revolver to their children or wards or to heirs to an estate.

EDIT:

For those of us that had never seen the statute...
 
I didn't personally ask the lawyer when I spoke to him, I just heard that from the man who referred me. I have heard another story of a minor in NH with their CCW license, but I do not have details. That's all... just calling BS on something is not welcome, I'd rather you voice your input differently or refrain from posting, thanks.
 
Thanks... But I don't live in VT... I live in NH, so VT law doesn't help me a whole ton... But hey, I wish we had constitutional carry too...
Click to expand...

HB 536 is waiting to be heard in the NH Senate, it's our third attempt at passing CC and this one has the best chance.

" was telling me about his gun lawyer, who's son (under 18) has his CCW permit"

1-800-BOVINE-SCAT
Click to expand...

Not so, I know someone who is under 18 with a Pistol License. NH law has no age requirement and by law someone shall be issued a permit if they are not a felon.
 
Federal Law is that you have to be 21 to purchase a handgun or "handgun ammunition" from a FFL. I believe in private sales the person selling must not believe the person to be under 18 or otherwise prohibited. I might be wrong with my second sentence though.
 
Well that's just it. To all the people who think you must be 21 to purchase a handgun... You're right... However, the law states that a revolver given by a parent/guardian to child/ward/heir etc. is exempt from the law. (which would normally say that a person who knowingly transfers a firearm to a minor is in big trouble bla bla bla...) The law doesn't mention any auto pistols.... so the lawyer I spoke with said it is best to stick with a revolver, as that is what the law mentions, and that should keep you our of any potential trouble...
 
This45Colt said:
Well that's just it. To all the people who think you must be 21 to purchase a handgun... You're right... However, the law states that a revolver given by a parent/guardian to child/ward/heir etc. is exempt from the law. (which would normally say that a person who knowingly transfers a firearm to a minor is in big trouble bla bla bla...) The law doesn't mention any auto pistols.... so the lawyer I spoke with said it is best to stick with a revolver, as that is what the law mentions, and that should keep you our of any potential trouble...
Click to expand...

Here we go. Again....

18 USC 922 (b)(1) prohibits an FFL from transferring a handgun or ammunition for use in a handgun to a person under the age of 21. It does NOT prohibit a person 18 to 20 years old from purchasing or being given as a gift any handgun, semi-auto or revolver from any private party (same state resident), related or not.

18 USC 922 (x) generally prohibits persons under the age of 18 from possessing any handgun or ammunition for use in a handgun, except in certain, very limited circumstances.

Here is the link to 18 USC 922:
http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/18/922

So, tell me, how are these <18 year old persons getting around the prohibition of possessing handguns located in Federal law, 18 USC 922 (x)?
 
I'm with NavyLCDR on this one. All my research has pointed to a federal minimum of 18 for transfer (by a non-FFL) and possession of pistols. NH law might not have a minimum age of issuance as far as the permit goes, but the minor would be in violation of federal law if they chose to carry it outside of the limited circumstances outlined in 18 USC 922 (x).
 
I'm not saying I totally agree/disagree or know all the laws and facts. But a very recognized firearms lawyer told me personally that it is possible and legal... I didn't even think its possible... I'm sure I would have to sit down with said lawyer and be taught all the details of such laws etc so that I would be in a place to educate any LEO/other in the event that I was questioned about it. According to him it has something to do with the parent to child gifting etc... Like I said... I really don't know, I would have to consult him first and have a preset plan on how to go about doing it and what steps to take if I decided that its something worth trying.
 
I bought my first gun at age 12. Walked up to the counter, pointed to the one I wanted, paid my money, and walked out the door with it and a box of ammo.

Sad that those days are gone forever.
 
There might be a state which would require a permit in order for a juvenile (<18 years old) to possess the handgun even under the limited conditions allowed by 18 USC 922 (x). That permit would not exempt the juvenile from the conditions in 18 USC 922 (x), but it might be required to supplement the conditions in 18 USC 922 (x) to be legal in that state.
 
i thought under federal law you had to be 21 to posses a handgun?
Click to expand...

False. You have to be 21 to purchase a handgun or handgun ammo from a federally licensed dealer. You can own one, either through purchasing in a private sale or as a gift if you are 18 or over (or 16 in Vermont).

That is a federal law, so NH is really swinging through some loopholes allowing minors to possess revolvers. But there is no minimum age required for a handgun permit.
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Owen Sparks
You would think that people old enough to join the Army are old enough to carry concealed.

They also aren't old enough to drink. We can die for our country, but we can't carry a gun or drink within its borders.

ETA: Not that I want to drink, I have never had a sip of alcohol in my [almost] 20 years.
Click to expand...

Im a combat veteran and I cant legally drink or get a CCW yet because Im not 21.

I find that situations like this lead to the same thing: Waiting. In my state Its legal for me to get a CCW even though Im under 21 because I am an honorably discharged veteran. However law and practice are different. Just because Its legal doesnt mean its going to happen. Im waiting till Im 21 to get my CCW despite its legality because I dont want to have to get a lawyer (read dont have the $$) to prove its legal.

Your probably in a similar situation. It might be legal... but you might need to drop some cash on a lawyer to prove its legal to someone else. Is it really worth going through all of that trouble to get a pistol? Especially when you could still be breaking federal law if your under 18. Just load when you get out of the truck. Its just plain easier. Plus someday you might want a CCW for self defense. If the same person has to approve you after your 21 you might not want them to have a memory of some pesky person who came with a lawyer.

EDIT: Spelling and proof reading. Gah.
 
There might be a state which would require a permit in order for a juvenile (<18 years old) to possess the handgun even under the limited conditions allowed by 18 USC 922 (x). That permit would not exempt the juvenile from the conditions in 18 USC 922 (x), but it might be required to supplement the conditions in 18 USC 922 (x) to be legal in that state.
Click to expand...
This says it all. While the lawyer in question may have indeed said what was claimed....due to the amount of information(namely, federal law) that contradicts his claim, I wouldn't put much faith at all into the idea that anyone under the age of 18 being issued a ccw in ANY state
 
It is entirely possible one may obtain a permit to carry concealed while under 18.
But it would not allow the person with the permit to carry most locations due to federal law. So just possession of said permit, even if obtainable, does not allow carry in public.

This could be used for a few circumstances where it allows something under state law, that is also allowed under federal law, but which state law would not allow without said permit.
That permit would not allow the minor to carry in most circumstances without breaking federal law.
The circumstances that it would are going to be quite limited, and will not allow the minor to do most things an adult could with the same state permit under federal law. Here is such a circumstance:





One of the exemptions under federal law is if the minor is carrying written permission from their guardian, and it is in the course of employment.
Possession of a concealed carry permit would then allow that minor to carry concealed without violating federal law while working for someone else on private property.
They would still have to transport that firearm to and from the location unloaded in a locked container under federal law even with a concealed carry permit.

So for example in some states being on private property does not necessarily count the same as a residence or allow for concealed carry of a loaded firearm. In such states they may still need a permit at say their workplace to carry a concealed loaded firearm even though it is private property.
That would be a restriction imposed by state law, that a permit to carry would get around.
The above federal exemption would appear to allow a minor in such a state that has a permit to carry concealed the ability to carry while working at say the local stop and rob as a clerk or cashier.


So if they have an employer that is not prohibited, a guardian that is not prohibited, carry a written letter from the guardian that states permission to carry, a concealed carry permit from the state, and the employer allows it, then they could carry the loaded firearm concealed at their workplace.
But only at the workplace, it would need to be unloaded and locked in a container to go to go directly to and from their workplace.



This could allow say the 16-17 year old working at the gas station or liquor store to either possess and carry concealed their guardian's handgun, or to have access to or carry concealed the store owner's handgun. Allowing a means of self defense while on the clock.


So there is a theoretical use that complies with state and federal law.
Now getting permission from an employer willing to let a minor be armed in the workplace, and written permission from a guardian, is going to be difficult. On top of that it has to be a state that allows a minor to possess.
Additionally a permit to carry concealed would only be useful in a state that doesn't already let someone carry concealed on private property such as the workplace with permission from the owner. Many states already allow this without any need for a state issued permit, however most employers do not which in many states then does not allow the employee without a permit to carry concealed on that private property.
The minor will need permission from the employer with or without a state concealed permit per federal law to be carrying 'in the course of employment'.
 
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A person's chronological age is almost never a valid measure of any other thing about that person. In just about every instance where age is an eligibility requirement, age proves to be irrelevant. It's selected as the criterion because it's easy and closes the door on subjectivism; subjectivism opens the door to law suits.
 
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