A New Light Load From Remington.....

[Dave McCracken]

You may have seen Yr Humble Scrivener sing the praises of light loads for most everything.

About once a fortnight I advise someone just starting out to try 7/8 oz loads to keep kick down and ease them over that hump in the learning curve.

You also may have seen me compose a paean to 8 1/2 shot. For clays, it's great up to 35 yards with suitable chokes. The pellets are just enough bigger than 9s to pack a bit more energy and bust the clays.

I've urged folks to try the Winchester and Fiocchi 7/8 oz loads. These are good, but only come in 8s.

Now, word has reached me that Remington has added a new "Managed Recoil" load to its excellent STS target line in 8 1/2s. The load is 7/8 oz at 1100 FPS.

My pet reload for clays in the warmer months is nigh identical, but with a hair more speed. It's a creampuff, so the new loads should be even more gentle.

For comparison's sake, there's more pellets in 7/8 ox of 8 1/2s than in 1 1/8 oz of 7 1/2s.

Enjoy....

 

[TrapperReady]

Sounds interesting. I've got a case of the Fiocchi 7/8oz 12ga loads (labeled "Training Load" sitting in the basement for evaluation purposes. I'm planning on testing them sometime in the next couple weeks.

As you know, Dave, I'm a huge fan of 7/8 oz loads, although I run mine a bit hotter (1200 - 1250 fps). I've found that they'll tend to run tight if I don't bump the speed a bit.

#8.5 shot works great as you say, although in colder weather and on rabbits, I don't trust it completely. If I get a chance, I'll post a picture of a clay I have. It's a rabbit which I shot at about 25 yards with a load of #8.5s. There are 5 easily identifiable hits on it (including one which went completely through the center), but nothing large enough to count as an identifiable chip, so it counted as a "LOST TARGET". Arghhh!!! The trapper saw it rolling after I'd hit it, and could see a little black spot in the middle, so he retrieved it for me right away.

I've gotten my gun fit good enough that I'm easily tolerating 1 oz loads again, but for especially for practice, the 7/8 oz loads are really nice.

 

[Larry Ashcraft]

Nice...

I need some STS hulls to get back into 12 ga reloading, sounds like a good way to get them.

Sandy has been absolutely smoking rabbits at the SC range with her 28 ga and my #8.5 reloads.

Win, win...

 

[TrapperReady]

Larry - I've broken many, many hundreds of rabbits with #8.5... but I just don't trust them after seeing that clay, at least not when I'm shooting for scores.

 

[ArmedBear]

Cool!

This has been a favorite among the more experimental handloaders. It's good to see Remington paying attention, and it's good to know I can experiment with this load without having to load it myself (and still get good shotshells for reloading out of the deal).

 

[redneck2]

What do you guys use for SC in terms of shot size & payload vs choke?? I use a Weatherby O/U. It came with SK1 in both barrels. Local dealer had some extended knurled chokes in bore, IC, and full for $30 (total) so I got 'em. I've got this on my shtogun, so recoil is pretty much a non-issue

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e283/Indianaoutdoorsman/Gunpix015.jpg

Also, have you found a real handy way to have access to your extra chokes?? TIA

 

[Chris17404]

Here's the link to the new loads...

http://www.remington.com/products/ammunition/shotshell/target/managed-Recoil_STS.asp

 

[JohnBT]

All of a sudden I don't feel so undergunned with 3/4 of an ounce in a 28.

John

 

[Dave McCracken]

Thanks for the responses.

TR, mine run about 1200. Like you said, they run very tight otherwise. And in the colder months,I use 7 1/2s to better smash the tougher targets. Rabbits get 7 1/2s all year round.

I like the Fiocchis also, but I buy/beg STS hulls for reloading. The only one I use these days.

Larry, how does she keep them lit?

Sorry, couldn't resist.

AB, as of late, Remington has been attentive to new developments. Hope it lasts...

Red, IC or LM for almost all shots. 7/8 oz loads, 8 1/2s for most shots, 7 1/2s for long ones and wabbits. On occasion I've uses 1 1/8 oz loads of 7 1/2s for the rodents but it makes little difference.

Is that a Gracoil?

MTM makes a neat little fliptop box that holds 6 flush or 3 extended tubes. Walmart carries them for $3.

Thanks for the link,Chris.

 

[redneck2]

Reason I asked about loads...I bought some the the cheapies at Wal-Mart a few years back when I first started. The Remington "game loads" (maybe). Kinda tan box with green stripe IIRC. I know they were light, maybe 3/4 oz. Results were less than spectacular. Maybe it was the shot size, maybe it was the components.

There were birds that I know should have broken but didn't. Typically longer shots IIRC. I had bought a bunch 'cause they were on special and way cheap. The guy that I was shooting with at the time used one box and gave the rest back to me. They were bad enough that he wouldn't take them for free.

I switched over to AA's and saw a difference, but that was about the time I gave up on the 870 and got the O/U.

I've always believed that there's usually a pretty distinct relationship between shot size and choke. I don't think you'd want to run 9's in a "full" because you'd run out of energy before you'd run out of pattern. Still, if the bird is on edge and very far out, are you better to get more pellets or more energy?? You're not shooting at a 5" disc, you're shooting at a 3/4" x 5" rectangle or something in between

Since recoil doesn't seem an issue for me, should I just stick to 1 1/8 on everything?? Seems extreme on some shots.

As for the choke holder..my dealer has the plastic boxes, but I was thinking something that slides on my belt or could attach to my shell pockets. Don't want to have to dig thru a bunch of empties to find the chokes in the box that's settled to the bottom. Thanks

 

[TrapperReady]

redneck2 - I used to shoot a ton of 1 1/8oz. Now, I wouldn't do it if you gave me that ammo for free and paid me to shoot it. It hits (me) harder than necessary and doesn't break the targets any better than 1 oz.

I think the best "all-around" 12ga target load is an ounce of #7.5 or #8 shot running about 1200 fps. Light recoil, and will destroy clays out as far as you care to shoot them. I've been shooting a bunch of Fiocchi shells recently, and the Multisports fit that bill exactly. The Crushers are the same, but about 100fps faster. They break targets incredibly well, but the recoil difference is noticable.

Frankly, 7/8 oz of similar stuff (although for those I prefer #8.5 shot) will do the job nicely almost every time.

For sporting clays, these days I run one of three chokes: skeet, light modified, heavy modified. I run the skeet for anything under about 30 yards, light modified out to around 40 and heavy modified past that. That's less choke than I ran last year and I seem to be doing better now.

As far as carrying them, I've got a flip-open MTM (I think) case which holds 6 extended tubes and easily fits in a vest pocket. It cost probably 4 bucks or so. I get one for each gun I have that takes choke tubes, so that I can keep them together and labeled.

 

[redneck2]

Anybody have an idea of how IC compares to Sk I?? Since I've got Sk I (actually two) and IC, should I get LM???

The Cyl, IC, Mod, Full thing is pretty easy. When you start mixing in Sk I, Sk II, Light Mod and Heavy Mod I lose track. Would somebody list the order? thx

 

[kudu]

I believe, cylinder, skeet 1, I/C, skeet 2, light mod, mod, improved mod, light full, full, xtra full, turkey. Light mod and skeet 2 are about the same thing. There is also now a negative choke, more open that cylinder, I know of a couple people using it at Back Forty Sporting.

 

[TrapperReady]

kudu - The skeet (marked) Optima choke-tube for my wife's Beretta 682 is noticably thinner at the muzzle end than her cylinder (marked) tube. I haven't bothered to throw a mic on them, but just from looks, I think it's negatively choked.

 

[Dave McCracken]

Remington's Skeet choke is a negative choke, about -2 POC. Their sequence goes something like this.....

Skeet
Cylinder.
Improved Skeet,
Improved Cylinder,
Light Modifed,(Duplicates Skeet II)
Modified,
Full,
Extra Full.

IMO, having tubes of 4 or 5 POC difference is splitting hairs.

The tubes I use the most are 14 POC, 20 POC and 28 POC. The TB barrel is 25 POC and comes close to optimum for trap behind the 20 yard line.

Red, you can stick with the 1 1/8 loads if you want to. But recoil sneaks up on you.Ask my orthopedist.

The 75K shells I've fired have probably exacerbated my neck, back and shoulder probs. It accretes.

 

[redneck2]

IMO, having tubes of 4 or 5 POC difference is splitting hairs.

I can buy that. That's why I wanted the info

The tubes I use the most are 14 POC, 20 POC and 28 POC. The TB barrel is 25 POC and comes close to optimum for trap behind the 20 yard line.

I'll pull out the calipers and do some checking. Thats what I was looking for

Red, you can stick with the 1 1/8 loads if you want to. But recoil sneaks up on you.Ask my orthopedist.

That's why I'd think more guys would go with the recoil reducing buttplate. Not only does it make a 12 ga feel like a .410, but you can adjust the drop and offset. If anybody's never used one, you should. They're incredible

 

[Dave McCracken]

Red,my first 870 and those I first used on the job had butt plates. Also, I used lots of heavy loads in days gone by.

Currently, besides the arthritis and rotator cuff probs in my right shoulder, my neck makes lots of noise when I turn my head. There's a pinched nerve in my neck and the T-4 and 5 vertebrae are herniated. Of course, some of this was not shotgun related. COs tend to accumulate the same type of damage as bull riders. But, my Orthpedist does attribute some to shooting lots of heavy loads.

The downside to those recoil devices in the butt are expense and balance. They add a lot of weight in the rear. They do reduce recoil.

 

[redneck2]

Very well could be. I'm not experienced enough to argue the point. What I do know is that, when I'm done with 200 rounds of whatever at the clays range, my shoulder isn't black/blue or various shades.

I've lived a long enough life to understand that pain hurts. Some of the younger guys haven't figured that out, but wait 'til they get to the wrong side of 50 and they'll learn.

Your neck, my back, some else's knees from football, every shooters ears...it all adds up. The older I get, the more I believe that the beating your body takes over a lifetime is cumulative.

The downside to those recoil devices in the butt are expense and balance.

True, but what is your spine worth?? Maybe I'm missing something, but if someone pays $500 to trade one gun for another because of fit but could have had an adjustable pad installed for $400 (and not get the snot kicked out of them while shooting it), it seems like a winner

On the balance thing, I guess I offset that by shooting better because I'm not getting beat up. If someone with my limited skills can shoot 85-90 on the clays range, the balance factor is evidentally offset.

I appreciate the input...thx

 

[Dave McCracken]

Red, many different roads. I do think your approach has merit. I just don't think they're the best option for me. YMMV....

 

[redneck2]

Dave asked..

Is that a Gracoil?

Yes it is. I never really paid any attention. I had a shotgun identical to this one without the recoil reducer. My local dealer traded me this one even up for my original. He got a gun he could sell easier and I got my upgrade for free. Figured whatever it was, the deal was too good to pass up.

As for the downside, never really considered the weight/balance. Since the weight's at the rear of the buttstock I never gave it a thought. All I know is, when I let someone else try it out, their reaction is exceptionally positive.

As for loads, hey, I'm game for anything that will work. If lighter loads of higher quality 8.5's work as well as the heavier loads of 7 1/2's or 8's I'm all in. My experience with light loads was pathetic, but maybe they were 6's and didn't have enough shot to fill the pattern.

I suppose just like everyone else, I may tend to paint all things similar with a broad brush. Appreciate the replies. I'm always trying to learn

 

[sm]

Dave,
Informative thread once again, thank you.
Great Replies from all.

I have not seen these new loads from Rem. I do have experience with Fiocchi loadings. Name one, I have shot it. I am huge fan of #8.5 shot, especially hard shot, I really wish Fiocchi would use it more...

Trapper - The Training loads are great, granted as we know, each gun /choke has its preferences. The 24 gr Int'l loading is very good.

This new Fiocchi Multi Sport loading in 1oz I was pleased with in pattern and recoil, reminds me of the Win Super Light loadings.

--

Shotgunning : being the Art and Science it is...well even Mr. Brister understood Father Time, Bad Stuff happens to Human Anatomy , and Not a matter of Age, Gender or Physical Size - One has to use Fit for them.

Personally always liked the Paper Hulls , not only from Recoil Curve being less perceived by shooter, the effectivness of pattern downrange.

I ever get rich [tm]...yeah I have some ideas, until such time, I'll just work with what is avail , improvise, adapt and overcome for my needs and suggestions for others.

I know too many folks that just had to make a change, I know of another that had to go to an 1100 in 28 ga. "You said once this Trap, 5 stand, and short course Sporting Clay with this set up long ago was okay...fella's doing with other platforms too, never thought I'd be..."

He is able to do, Grandson can use his what he used to, and he is using the 1100 be bought for grandson...Dad/ Son shoots his gun...no matter, the same guns, the family (got the gals involved too) are all shooting and having fun - just some are using each others stuff now is all.

At least the gals are the ones that got caught drying paper hulls in the oven...gals are sharp.

"Well since the oven is use, you get to run down and get us take out".

How come we guys never thought of that?

 

[MedGrl]

I may have to pick up a box of those loads and give em a try the next time i go clays busting. Thanks for the tip Dave

 

[Dave McCracken]

Gracoil seems to be a class act. I know a few folks with them, a happy lot. One fellow has it on (in?) a Beretta auto, for what must be a very light kicking clays gun.

Try the bantams. If the Internationsal Trap folks can bust those fast birds with a mere 24 grams ( A scant 7/8 oz) there has to be some merit, right?

Steve, these follow the minimalist approach, just like single shots and 28 gauges. Enough to do the job...

Medgrl, the round you shot with Number 6 was with 7/8 oz loads running a little faster than these.. Do try the 20 gauge version.

 

[Chris17404]

FYI...

I asked this question on the Remington website:

"When will the new Managed-Recoil STS Target Loads be available to purchase in stores?"

Here was Remington's reply:

"Welcome to Remington Country! The (20394) (RLSTS1285) 12 gauge managed recoil STS target loads are due to be manufactured in the 2nd quarter of this year and the (20400) (RLSTS2085) 20 gauge in the 1st and 2nd quarter of this year. You should see these coming to the wholesalers in late May to July."

Chris

 

[BozemanMT]

realod, reload reload

1oz, wimpy loads (about 1150 to 1180).
They shoot fine, the clays are not missed cuz of the load, but only me.

chokes:
Pattern your chokes, you might be amazed how tight or how loose some chokes can be with some loads. Otherwise, you are just guessing.

shot: on SC I usually use #8's. I use 8.5's for close shots and 7.5 for long shots and I almost never change my chokes.
skeet: #9's (same load)
trap: #8's (although if I was any good and could back up I might move to 7.5's)

#8's 1oz load is a really good GP load.