A Newbie Lesson in Loading .40S&W, Assumptions Are Bad

[markr6754]

I recently received a new .40 S&W projectile from Everglades Ammo, a 165gr JHP. I’ve been really happy with their JHP projectiles for .380 ACP and 9mm Luger, so I was really anxious to test these 165gr JHP in my new Springfield EMP 40.
I’ve run a number of powders under my standard Berry’s 155gr CPFN projectiles, and they run great, as well as 4 different brands and weights of factory ammo.

As with many alternate projectile manufacturers, there is no published load data for Everglades Ammo, so I went with that most dangerous practice...I “assumed“ they were the same as Hornady’s XTPs. Hey, the pictures looked similar.

I selected VV 3N37 for this load, and some once fired R-P cases. Vihtavuori starting load for 165gr projectile is 7.3gr, but I went with 7.0gr to produce a softer load this first time out. I paired this with CCI 500 SPP and seated to 1.125” C.O.L., pretty standard fare for .40 S&W. I always plunk test new ammo in my barrel to ensure that it is loaded off the lands. These rounds plunked fine, so I loaded up 9 more to test at my first opportunity, which came this past Saturday.

As to shooting, they were suitably soft...probably softer than I care for, but they ran Straight and true to point of aim. I was very pleased with their overall performance. However, I could only load 4 rounds at a time. At the 5th round, the follower would not rise up, and the 5th round basically flopped around. Four were fine, a fifth was a no-go. Both magazines.

Okay, not cool, but my main purpose is to test these loads. As I said, they shot just fine.

I mentioned in another thread that I would try again at 1.200”...from my tested 1.250”...and TexasforLife caught my typo. He didn’t know it was a typo, but nonetheless, I’m grateful he took the time to comment on my posted data.

So where is this thread going? I made an assumption that because a picture of a bullet looked similar to another that I could run with that assumption and produce loads for my precious Springfield EMP. In the memorable words of Bugs Bunny...”What a maroon!”

Key learning here for me...if two projectiles have the same diameter, and the same basic design, but one weighs 10gr more than the other...the additional weight has to go somewhere...and that usually means UP. A 165gr JHP should be longer than a 155gr JHP in the same caliber...if they are both lead cores with copper jackets.

The attached picture is a simple comparison of the 3 different .40 S&W projectiles on my shelf. I added a few measurements pic to show just how different these 3 bullets actually are. Different lengths, different profiles, different distance to start of ogive - all reasons why swapping projectiles in a load requires a whole new load work up to ensure function, and most importantly, safety.

I hope that this information is helpful to someone else as we continue this journey together.

 

[murf]

yup, so many different bullet configurations these days you can't just assume same load data for all.

my plunk test starts the bullet long and reduces oal until i get the plunk. that way i know the longest oal for that load (yes, per the above comment i plunk for every different load). then i can reduce oal for function and accuracy.

luck,

murf

 

[mrawesome22-250]

I don't really get it.

They were too long and binding in the magazine as they went in lower in the mag?

 

[markr6754]

I don't really get it.

They were too long and binding in the magazine as they went in lower in the mag?

That's exactly the issue. Four loaded fine. Fifth harder to push the round in, then that 5th round just fell out...to tension on it. Dump the 5th round out...the 4 rounds were remained down inside the magazine. Lightly smack the magazine against my palm, the 4 rounds would pop back up into place and fed and fired without incident. Same result with my 2nd magazine. No issues with 8 rounds of any other ammo I had with me, including Berry's 155gr CPFP which I'd loaded and shot previously.

These were all in my single stack Springfield EMP 40. I had my Beretta PX4 Storm, double stack .40 S&W, but I didn't try it with these 165gr JHPs...I had only made up 10 rounds, as this was a new profile for me, and I don't load more than 10 new loads at a time. I'm really glad that I didn't load 10 rounds with multiple powders....limited my pain.

I have no idea why 4 rounds will load, but 5 will not. With the fifth already jamming in the mag, I never tried a 6th or greater with that bullet. Will make up 5 or more dummy rounds at 1.120" to see if they load into my magazines before making up any more live rounds.

 

[FROGO207]

Well at least you followed the advice to not load a whole bucket before you fully tested them!
FWIW Ialways work up my loads unless the bullets are an exact match or the powder lot is the same. Figure it is cheap insurance against doing sumtin stoopid.
Really I need all the help I can get these days.

 

[Ironicaintit]

Shoulda taken a left at Albuquerque!

and this is why we test new components for function and fit.
At least you didn’t load 1000 of them

 

[sparkyv]

Lesson learned: the reloads must plunk AND fit in the mag.
One of many lessons that we all must learn by one way or other. Some by training/reading, some by trial and error. The continual learning is what keeps me interested. Fortunately, this lesson had no adverse effects. We'll never learn them all!

 

[markr6754]

Update: I started to load a full magazine of dummy rounds to ensure they would fill a magazine, AND cycle in my Springfield EMP. I wanted to ensure I was starting at 1.125”, then I would seat down to 1.120” for magazine test.

To my dismay I found that the round seated to 1.150”. I hadn’t changed any of my dies since loading my 10 rd test load. I’m pretty sure that no one else was playing with my dies, as we are locked down. Nonetheless, it provides a very clear reason why 8 rounds wouldn’t fit my magazine...I’m surprised that 4 did. I’m also dumbfounded that they plunked in my barrel.

I don’t have any of my initial trial rounds to be really sure that I hadn’t just turned out my seating stem...so I may just be grasping at straws to find a reason for my load issue.

I did observe that after producing 9 dummy rounds at 1.120”, 3 of them did not pass my Lyman cartridge checker. While they fed into the magazine without issue, I had trouble manually cycling all 9 rounds through my pistol. I pulled them apart, resized the cases, and tried again. As before, 2 would not pass the Lyman checker, so this time I swapped out my Hornady dies for my Redding 40 S&W dies and redid the 9 dummies. This time they all passed both the Lyman cartridge checker and cycled clean in my Springfield EMP.

So, back to the drawing board. Time to clean, lube, and reseat my Hornady .40 S&W dies. Looks like I’ll be hanging on to my Redding set after all.

 

[Heir Kommt Die Sonne]

my cast lee bullets don't work for 40 S&W or 10mm either. They won't fit in the chamber.
I'm using the 175 grain mold , tumble lube

 

[crestoncowboy]

That's exactly the issue. Four loaded fine.

Nothing to do with plunk testing though. And it applies to factory ammo as well. Many newer sig 220 45s wont use certain hollow points that have a fatter profile like the hornady. They will plunk and shoot fine but they catch on the front of the magazine.

 

[Demi-human]

I’m pretty sure that no one else was playing with my dies, as we are locked down.

This should be something you are absolutely positive about...
“This is a ‘No Admittance’ room!”

You should have the barrel and magazine when setting dies for a new bullet.

And, yup! I’ve done that too.
Plunk fine, but when they leave the influence of the feed lips they turn perpendicular to the spring force and bind in the magazine tube.
Or really wide hollow points that are longer diagonally.

 

[Pistolpositive]

On my 40, I only reload one type of projectile - in this case 180 grain JHP/Xtreme plated HP. Kind of wished I had used that advice for my other calibers. Sure would simplify things. Powders are where I might vary some. But as to length, I am typically right at 1.128 or thereabouts. I will cycle several rounds through my firearm to verify function. If something is astray, then pull the barrel and do the plunk test and adjust accordingly. But on 40 never had to with the 180 xtreme JHP. Now when it comes to 9mm LRN, etc. and certain firearms (my CZs for example), I typically have to reduce my OAL to get the LRNs to function. the other thing is since I am really only a target shooter, plinker, I tend to use the lower end of the powder loads.

 

[lordpaxman]

To my dismay I found that the round seated to 1.150”. I hadn’t changed any of my dies since loading my 10 rd test load. I’m pretty sure that no one else was playing with my dies, as we are locked down. Nonetheless, it provides a very clear reason why 8 rounds wouldn’t fit my magazine...I’m surprised that 4 did. I’m also dumbfounded that they plunked in my barrel.

Quit confusing this gray head... Are you saying you assumed the EA 165 JHP was going to seat to the same depth in your seater die as the Berry’s 155 CPFN? Or you just mis-adjusted the seater die when loading the 165’s? I understand the whole issue with trying to force an overly long round into a mag just don’t work. But 1.125 with .40’s is pretty much all I do with any profile bullet, they pass every barrel and mag with flying colors.
I’ve had an issue with .45 and the P220 and MG hollow points. Loaded them to spec, plunked them, got to the range and discovered the mag lips were just a wee bit short. Stuff happens. Good luck!