WST and 40 S&W

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Crazy Horse

Crazy Horse

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Good afternoon everyone.

I have used WST with the 45 acp and 9mm (yes, there are no published loads for it anymore, so I'll leave this one be). I found excellent loads for the 45acp and now use it exclusively for my 45acp loads.

I just obtained an M&P 40c and have really taking a liking to it. Still don't know why S&W went with the shield models instead of taking advantage of their subcompact line. Comparing the two, the subcompact line has more features. I guess being left handed, they are more noticeable. But I digress.

I'm looking at making some loads in 40 S&W for that handgun. Has anyone had a experience with WST and 40 S&W? Using the Hodgdon site, the powder tops out at 4.9 grains with a velocity of 932fps on the 180gr projectile. For the 165gr projectile the velocity indicates 1003 on 5.5 grains of WST.

TIA

CH
 
LiveLife said:
But wait, we did an entire thread on WST and 9mm using published load data -
https://www.thehighroad.org/index.p...er-target-published-load-data-for-9mm.870180/
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LoL. We did, but I didn't want to go down that route since Hogdgon no longer uses WST and 9mm. I was in there and was happy with my results, but at first I was concerned as the powder initially looked like it was getting close to the top (which is what I imagine they meant by "peaky." As this is for the 40 S&W I didn't want to diverge back to 9mm.

THX

CH
 
Crazy Horse said:
THX.

What did the recoil feel like.
I tried CFE Pistol first, and the recoil affected my accuracy, of course the speed was greater with CFE, but I don't have an issue trading some fps for accuracy.
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Any recollection would be fuzzy and without back-to-back comparison with another powder/load my opinion would be irrelevant. However if I say "good load" it's not annoyingly snappy or I would have made that notation.
 
1KPerDay said:
Any recollection would be fuzzy and without back-to-back comparison with another powder/load my opinion would be irrelevant. However if I say "good load" it's not annoyingly snappy or I would have made that notation.
Click to expand...
I found CFE snappy enough that it affected my accuracy. It's likely correlated, because when I fire the same load in my xdm 40 mod 2, it was fairly accurate. However the subcompact is a smaller frame firearm with a 1/2 inch shorter barrel.

Going to have to do some test loads with WST to see which combination of WST and bullet works best. Would like to get near 1000 fps with good accuracy. I've had good luck with WST, have plenty of that type of powder, and it burns clean. The only thing that I don't like is the fluffiness making it messy.

Thx.

CH
 
Crazy Horse said:
I found CFE snappy enough that it affected my accuracy. It's likely correlated, because when I fire the same load in my xdm 40 mod 2, it was fairly accurate. However the subcompact is a smaller frame firearm with a 1/2 inch shorter barrel.

Going to have to do some test loads with WST to see which combination of WST and bullet works best. Would like to get near 1000 fps with good accuracy. I've had good luck with WST, have plenty of that type of powder, and it burns clean. The only thing that I don't like is the fluffiness making it messy.

Thx.

CH
Click to expand...
I’ll be following along, too. In WST’s burn rate envelope I have tried Ramshot Competition and like it a lot. Bullseye and AA#2 worked well too. Haven’t tried WST or Red Dot.
 
The only powder I've had a chance to use in 40 is AutoComp and to be honest I was so happy with the results that I didn't look at other powders
 
Crazy Horse said:
I just obtained an M&P 40c and have really taking a liking to it. Still don't know why S&W went with the shield models instead of taking advantage of their subcompact line. Comparing the two, the subcompact line has more features. I guess being left handed, they are more noticeable. But I digress.
Click to expand...

The 40c is not part of their subcompact line. The 9c and 40c are essentially full size double stack frames with a shortened grip and shortened slide. You can use full size magazines in the 9c and 40c and with a grip extension insert with a full size magazine, the 40c feels just like an M&P40 full size but with a shortened barrel. The 1.0 and 2.0 Shields are a different animal. They are the subcompact pistols and use a single stack magazine. The Shield Plus model is a double stack subcompact which is almost the same size as a Shield but can hold as many as 13+1 rounds of 9mm in the same space as the 1.0 and 2.0 8+1 round version.

As for WST and 40, the powder burn rate is in the range of Green Dot and International which means it is slower than Clays/Red Dot but faster than Unique/Universal. I bought a pound of it during the last shortage and used it with the Lee 401-175-TC powder coated in my M&P40 full size. 4.2g gave me 900 fps out of the 4.25" barrel which was pretty light shooting. 3.6g made it feel like shooting a 9mm and 5.0g gave me 1000 fps but was probably right at the max pressure and I have better powders than WST for those applications, BE-86 being the best.

I think you'll find 4.0-4.5 the most comfortable load range for 180g bullets with the 40c.
Good luck.
 
rsrocket1 said:
The 40c is not part of their subcompact line. The 9c and 40c are essentially full size double stack frames with a shortened grip and shortened slide. You can use full size magazines in the 9c and 40c and with a grip extension insert with a full size magazine, the 40c feels just like an M&P40 full size but with a shortened barrel. The 1.0 and 2.0 Shields are a different animal. They are the subcompact pistols and use a single stack magazine. The Shield Plus model is a double stack subcompact which is almost the same size as a Shield but can hold as many as 13+1 rounds of 9mm in the same space as the 1.0 and 2.0 8+1 round version.

As for WST and 40, the powder burn rate is in the range of Green Dot and International which means it is slower than Clays/Red Dot but faster than Unique/Universal. I bought a pound of it during the last shortage and used it with the Lee 401-175-TC powder coated in my M&P40 full size. 4.2g gave me 900 fps out of the 4.25" barrel which was pretty light shooting. 3.6g made it feel like shooting a 9mm and 5.0g gave me 1000 fps but was probably right at the max pressure and I have better powders than WST for those applications, BE-86 being the best.

I think you'll find 4.0-4.5 the most comfortable load range for 180g bullets with the 40c.
Good luck.
Click to expand...

What's the difference between the 40c and the 40 subcompact? I looked at the photos, they looked almost identical, I also only noticed a difference in barrel length of .1 (3.5 vs 3.6), but couldn't determine if the .1 difference would not work on the 40c (which has a barrel length of 3.5). Was thinking it may have been a misprint, but I couldn't find any information on whether the 3.6 would work on the 40c. The reason for this is because I was dabbling with the thought of getting a 9mm barrel for the 40c.

With the roll out of the M&P Shield plus, which is double stacked, the Shield 9mm is getting chunkier and nearing 40c territory. It's still a tad smaller in dimensions than the 40c, but the 3.6 inch barrel, reversible magazine release, ambi slide release, and a picatinny rail makes the 40c more beneficial to have in terms of features. I have the Shield, and while I definitely like the Shield platform, the 40c seems more attractive (to me) in terms of support for left handed shooters.

Thanks for the recommendation on 180gr projectiles. Those are definitely easier to obtain, so I'm hoping for positive results with the 180gr bullets.

CH
 
Good evening everyone.

Finally had the time to get out to the range and try out my 40 S&W test loads. I'm a bit embarrased by my accuracy, especially at the start. However, it was only my second time shooting my M&P 40c. I also have not changed the trigger to an apex one. No excuses though.

Overall, I enjoyed the way WST felt in terms of recoil. As a comparison, I had loaded some Hornady 155 XTP rounds, but these were done using Power Pistol Those loads are a tad hot. So I'll be creating Hornady XTP bullets in 155gr in the future for self defense loads. As for WST, as expected the burn was clean. And more importantly It felt better than my loads I created using CFE pistol.

I will attach the pics and you can zoom in to see the bullet type. I shot 5 rounds with the standard 10 round magazine with the little overhang, and I shot an additional 5 using the 13 round magazine.

Here's a quick summary
Bullet: RMR 180gr RNFP and WST powder - best load 4.7 grains of WST; runner up 4.9 grains of WST
Bullet: Extreme 165gr FP and WST powder - best load 5.1 grains of WST; runner up 4.9 grains of WST
Bullet; Berrys 155gr TMJ FP and WST powder - best load 5.7 grains of WST; runner up 5.5 grains of WST

Below are the result from 7 yards. Another factor that could have attributed to the better accuracy is getting used to the trigger as shooting progressed. However, one of the factors that I included in my tests is felt recoil. So that also helped in accuracy.

Overall WST is an excellent powder for the 40 S&W. On the Alliant side, I would recommend Sport pistol. In my case I lean towards WST because of the quantity I have.

Hope this helps.

40cpic1.jpg

Below are a couple of other samples I tried on the 40c. They are with different powder. The 165grain bullet is actually from Extreme bullets. I feel the need to point it out because recoil was manageable, but it affected accuracy. Still I felt the need to add it just as an FYI.
40cpic2.jpg

A little more practice and I'll be putting them in the bullseye. I will add that I typically change out the trigger when I get an M&P for an apex trigger. I just feels so much better for me.


CH
 
lordpaxman said:
I load 180s and WST for the .40. Nice shooting and nice recoil. Good luck.
Click to expand...
Yes. I'm trying to lean on the 180's because they are so much easier to obtain. I have an XDM Mod2 in 40 S&W and that one I am pretty accurate with when when using power pistol. But the M&P 40c is easier to conceal. Just like my M&P with the 5 inch barrel. Super accurate, but I'm not concealing anything that large.

Thanks again

CH
 
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