A pair of "mammoth" knives from Dan Smith.

[MCMXI]

I purchased a pair of really nice Dan Smith "mammoth" knives this past weekend at a Pheasants Forever banquet here in Montana. I've never heard of Dan Smith but he's a local knife maker here in NW Montana. The mammoth tusk (top) and mammoth tooth (bottom) handled knives were so nice that I had to bid on them. I probably overpaid a little but it was for a good cause and the knives should last a lifetime, and maybe another five thousand years or so! One of the things I really like about them is that they look vintage. The blades (154CM on the tooth handled knife supposedly) have some minor pitting and the finish looks "old". Overall these are very nice knives and it's amazing to hold a knife with a handle that is at least 4,000 years old and probably a lot older than that.

http://www.smithcustomknives.com/

 

[Valkman]

Those are incredible looking knives!

 

[hso]

What pitting?

 

[JShirley]

Yeah, they do look great...I don't see the pitting, either.

 

[bannockburn]

MCMXI

Both knives look phenomenal! I also don't see any evidence of pitting or of the finish looking old (not sure what that means unless your referring to the mammoth tusk and/or tooth).

 

[MCMXI]

Valkman, my thoughts exactly so good to see that I'm not imagining it!

What pitting?

The photos (low resolution) below show what I'm describing as "pitting". Look on the blade near the hilt and extending forward across the top and you'll see little pinholes that I would call pitting. I'm far from being an expert on knife making so I don't know if the steel comes with pits or imperfections on the surface. Perhaps Dan wanted a "vintage" look. Regardless, the blades remind me of vintage knives that frequently have pitting on them and I think it's cool. I did send an email to Dan to ask about the steel since one knife had a card with it mentioning 154CM but his website lists knives with 1095 and 440C steels. I will add that I'm very pleased with the knives and this is more of a fact finding mission than a bash fest. I want to know if I need to do anything special with the blades since my gf is planning on using one or both for hunting.

 

[MCMXI]

I received a reply from Dan Smith about the knives shown above ... maybe others will find it interesting.

"both knives are cpm 154 cm stainless steel crucible particle metallurgy the components of the steel are ground up and mixed before its melted that insures that the mixture is super uniform and the carbides are spread out uniformly through the steel.Even stainless steel can rust. This cpm 154 is suppose to be as rust resistant as 440 c but it wouldn't hurt to keep some oil on the blade. The pitting your seeing is me not finishing them to a mirror finish I only go to 320 grit when I finish them. So if you need to get out a scratch out 320 grit with the grain. The tooth is brittle and can break if it gets dropped or hammered on. The ivory is better but it's 20,000 years old. I tell people the warranty ran out 10,000 years ago.I hope they last you a long long time.Let me know if you have any trouble. I hope I have answered any questions let me know if I can answer any others. Maintenance wise hand wash and dry them. I use neatsfoot oil on the sheaths."

 

[hso]

my gf is planning on using one or both for hunting.

That would be a mistake. The mammoth would be at risk of breaking (especially the tooth). Have him produce a field version of one to use in the field.

I don't understand the pitting.
The steel doesn't come pitted and I don't think 154 should pit like that if finished to 320 grit. Crucible should be producing a pretty clean steel so the idea that modern 154 CM would be "dirty" doesn't hold any longer. It confuses me that those are there.

At the end of the day all that matters is that you think they're great and not the nits that someone might pick.

BTW, what were you using in the photography? Great job! Good lighting. Good contrast. Interesting background without distraction.

 

[rcmodel]

The pitting looks to me like the blade got too hot during heat treating, or while soldering the guards on.

But the guards appear to be pinned on with Closonne pins.
So?

Gotta go with got too hot during heat treating.

But that's just a WAG.

I do know that 154CM doesn't come from the manufacture with pits or carbon inclusions in it.

rc

 

[redneck]

If he dinged the blade up with the teeth of a vise while doing filework, and then the blades were heat treated the scale would get down in the dents from the vise teeth. Then if he used a hard backer while sanding the blades down to 320 the heat treat scale would not get removed where the dings were. There are lots of possible explanations for the little black marks.
They appear to be very nice knives but I would save them for display or very light use. I would be afraid to take those handles to the field.

 

[hso]

RC,

The guards aren't soldered and that's way too far forward to be due to guard soldering.

Maybe he did ding it up in the jaws of a vice, but that isn't a regular pattern like on a vice so I'm still puzzled.

 

[rcmodel]

The guards aren't soldered and that's way to far forward to be due to guard soldering.

You must have not seen some of the guard soldering done with hi-temp silver I have seen done through the years!!

Too much flux and too much heat, with the wrong kind of solder, do bad things to well finished blades!!

But I agree, I don't think they are soldered, but just pinned.

Rc

 

[Valkman]

Some guys don't solder but use something like JB Weld and pin. Hard to imagine a guy letting a knife out with those marks that he didn't notice. I'd send it back and let HIM sand them out.

Do not use those knives for outdoor work. Get one with micarta handles for that. Those handles are brittle enough to break if dropped on hard ground or a rock.

 

[bikerdoc]

Absolutely the best looking knives Shown here in long time. I especially like the tooth one.

Please dont let GF use them. Get her a good run of the mill field knife.

 

[MCMXI]

Thanks to everyone for the positive comments on these knives and the advice against using them for hunting. My gf and I both have a number of knives that we use so these don't need to go into the field. She has a custom hunting knife with a walrus penis bone handle for goodness sake! Anyway, I took a better photo of the "pitting" on the tusk knife using an 8X loop and my cell phone. It almost looks like inclusions rather than pitting. I really must stress that I don't have a problem with it and consider it a feature rather than a flaw. I am interested in the process though so the expertise here is very helpful and interesting.

 

[hso]

RC, Valk,

Do you think those could be carbides grown too large in the heat treat and then plucked out in the finishing?

 

[rcmodel]

I do think something like that happened.

Maybe got too hot in heat treatment and cooked it a little would be my guess.

rc

 

[Valkman]

Yea I'd be interested to know if he sends them out for HT or does his own. I sent them to Paul Bos and never saw anything like that.

 

[redneck]

That pic makes it look a lot like left over mill scale to me. You can get 154CM in mill finish, Jantz carries it. That would explain why its on the flats and not on the bevels. If it was a heat treating issue I think it would be over everything.


If you look at the guys website he's using high end materials at a low to mid price point. I'm guessing he's in it for fun and not trying to make "the perfect knife" every time, hence the 320 grit finish and some mill scale left over. I think you guys are way over thinking this.

 

[hso]

why its on the flats and not on the bevels

Good point.

you guys are way over thinking this

Well...yeah.

 

[MCMXI]

I think you guys are way over thinking this.

I think we're educating ourselves .... and your input helps towards that. And I'll say it again, I think these knives are awesome! I've already asked Dan to let me know about knives he makes in the future. Maybe he'll make one that I can use for hunting.

 

[Valkman]

That pic makes it look a lot like left over mill scale to me.

You are right, I've bought that stuff and spent forever getting it off. I'd never buy it again.

 

[rduchateau2954]

I'd leave them as is. They are show knifes, show em off. I won a show knife off another forum, still trying to figure out a cool way to display it.