bulltaco
Member
Could someone please explain the significance of a pinned barrel in the older S&W revolvers, whats the benefit of one and why the barrels are no longer pinned.
A Pinned Barrel In A S&W Revolver?
- Thread starter bulltaco
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Barrels are normally screwed into a receiver to what is called a "crush" fit, where some metal is actually compressed at the shoulder. This keeps the barrel firmly in place and ensures against the barrel unscrewing itself when the bullet takes the rifling and tries to turn the barrel.
For many years, S&W did not use a crush fit, thinking accuracy was better without it, so they used a looser fit and inserted the a pin to keep the barrel from turning. But that is a costly process, and testing showed that there was no difference in accuracy when the crush fit was used. So they changed.
Also, older guns in the Magnum calibers had cylinders recessed to enclose the case heads, another expensive feature that proved to be unnecessary with modern cartridge cases, so that feature also was dropped.
So, the terms "pinned and recessed", or "P&R" have come to be associated with the older generation of S&W revolvers, with high polish blue finishes and walnut grips, with another era. Whether the guns were actually better is debatable, but they are seen as having been better, and the nostalgia element comes into play when the term "P&R" is used.
Jim
For many years, S&W did not use a crush fit, thinking accuracy was better without it, so they used a looser fit and inserted the a pin to keep the barrel from turning. But that is a costly process, and testing showed that there was no difference in accuracy when the crush fit was used. So they changed.
Also, older guns in the Magnum calibers had cylinders recessed to enclose the case heads, another expensive feature that proved to be unnecessary with modern cartridge cases, so that feature also was dropped.
So, the terms "pinned and recessed", or "P&R" have come to be associated with the older generation of S&W revolvers, with high polish blue finishes and walnut grips, with another era. Whether the guns were actually better is debatable, but they are seen as having been better, and the nostalgia element comes into play when the term "P&R" is used.
Jim
QuarterBoreGunner
Member
I'll take a crack at this.
The pin in the barrel (once upon a time) was simple method of ensuring that the barrel couldn't start to back out under recoil. Then S&W made some manufacturing and design changes and decided that it was no longer needed.
So it's not so much a "better" thing, what it really is, is an indicator of when the revolver was made. To most collectors (me included) "pinned and recessed" means that the revolver was made during the (arguably) last, best era of quality. Everything was hand fit and the guns were and are a thing of beauty.
Oh and "recessed" indicates that the cylinder holes were counter bored to better support the cartridge case head. An extra machining step that S&W decided that they didn't need, but again an indication of the vintage of the revolver.
Make any sense?
EDIT: Ha! Right on time Jim.
The pin in the barrel (once upon a time) was simple method of ensuring that the barrel couldn't start to back out under recoil. Then S&W made some manufacturing and design changes and decided that it was no longer needed.
So it's not so much a "better" thing, what it really is, is an indicator of when the revolver was made. To most collectors (me included) "pinned and recessed" means that the revolver was made during the (arguably) last, best era of quality. Everything was hand fit and the guns were and are a thing of beauty.
Oh and "recessed" indicates that the cylinder holes were counter bored to better support the cartridge case head. An extra machining step that S&W decided that they didn't need, but again an indication of the vintage of the revolver.
Make any sense?
EDIT: Ha! Right on time Jim.
One other point: Once a barrel has been set with a crush fit, that's it. If you remove and change the barrel it won't crush the second time around. Therefor it's recommended that barrel changes be made at S&W. Since the older pinned barrels weren't cush fit in the first place, barrel changes could be made by anyone who had the necessary blocks to fit the frame and barrel to insure the frame wasn't warped during the process.
I personally wouldn't claim that the last of the P&R Smiths were the best.
Most of these guns came from an unhappy staff that was working for a Company called Bangor Punta,,,,,,,,
I personally feel the very best large caliber guns, i.e. 41s, 44s, and .45s came from the period of about 1987 to 1997.
Don't crucify me guys but the N frame, pre-war .44s, even the fabled Triple Locks, just really weren't all that great unless they were fitted up as target guns.
The best .357s were made on N frames and date from the late 1930s to the late 1950s, maybe as late as 1965.
The very best .38s if you don't feel compelled to shoot +P ammo, and if you do feel compelled to do so I have always felt you should just go ahead and buy a .357 magnum, anyway, the best .38s were made from 1930 to 1940 and 1945 to about 1960.
Most of these guns came from an unhappy staff that was working for a Company called Bangor Punta,,,,,,,,
I personally feel the very best large caliber guns, i.e. 41s, 44s, and .45s came from the period of about 1987 to 1997.
Don't crucify me guys but the N frame, pre-war .44s, even the fabled Triple Locks, just really weren't all that great unless they were fitted up as target guns.
The best .357s were made on N frames and date from the late 1930s to the late 1950s, maybe as late as 1965.
The very best .38s if you don't feel compelled to shoot +P ammo, and if you do feel compelled to do so I have always felt you should just go ahead and buy a .357 magnum, anyway, the best .38s were made from 1930 to 1940 and 1945 to about 1960.
Deanimator
Member
I'll take a Bangor Punta gun to ANYTHING they make these days.
None of THOSE has the farcical and dangerous internal lock.
Vern Humphrey
Member
If you're going to shoot a revolver a lot -- especially with high-pressure loads (like full power .357 and .44 Mag loads), you can expect the revolver to wear out. A common problem with such revolvers is eroded or split forcing cones (the breech end of the barrel.) A split forcing cone requires a barrel replacement -- which means a long delay if you have a crush-fit barrel. Ordinary gunsmiths aren't equipped to change these barrels.
XavierBreath
Member
308win
Member
Neither is S&W. At least that is what they told me when I inquired about the availability of a factory barrel for a Model19 Combat Magnum manufactured in the late 1970's.
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