A question for you lever action aficionados.

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24”. I’m still working on a supply of factory loads I bought because I didn’t have any brass at the time for 45 Colt. The bullets appear to be powder coated perhaps? I have a supply of cast from Missouri Bullet that I will start loading when I run out of factory. I like and use a lot of Unique so I’ll probably work up a load suitable for the 1873 with that. I’ve found cast bullets work well for everything especially in pistol calibers. They don’t destroy much meat, just a clean hole. Neither the buck nor the squirrel put up much of a fight:) Both were thru and thru with minimal meat damage. Round balls from muzzle loaders have been efficiently taking game for a long time. I don’t see cast bullets being any different. Good luck on your quest for an 1873, they are fine rifles. 70B1CE8A-CB78-4CFF-94FB-5D6F7D098829.jpeg
 
Howdy Sunny Slopes

You must be a fan of Lonesome Dove.



My own 1873 pattern rifles are limited to two.

A 44-40 Uberti that I bought used many years ago.

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And a 38-40 antique Winchester Model 1873 that left the factory in 1887. Notice the round barrel.

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I have lots more lever guns, but those are the only two in the 1873 pattern.


I have never had a chance to shoot one of the Miroku manufactured rifles marketed by Winchester these days, but everything I have read about them is the quality is excellent. The only downside is there is very little available in after market parts for them. There are tons of aftermarket parts available for Uberti products.

Personally I would not get hung up over whether the barrel was octagonal or round. If you want an octagon barrel because it says 'Old West' more power to you, but the standard barrel for a Winchester 1873 was 24" long and it was round. Winchester would also supply rifles with octagon barrels to dealers for the same price, but the standard was round. Part round/part octagon barrels were available too, but they were relatively rare. Round or octagon barrels were available from fourteen inches to thirty six inches long in two inch increments. Other lengths were available on special order.

I have never owned a rifle chambered for 45 Colt, rifles were never chambered for that round until very recently, sometime in the 1980s. (Actually I had a 45 Colt Rossi 1892 for a very short while that I won in a sweepstakes, but I never fired it and sold it right away to help pay for my 44-40 Uberti 'iron frame' Henry) The standard cartridge the Model 1873 was chambered for was 44/40. Both the rifle and the cartridge were introduced together in 1873. 38-40, 32-20, and believe it or not 22 Shorts were the only cartridges Winchester chambered the 1873 model for.

I always buy all my brass, for 45 Colt, 45 Schofield, 44-40, 44 Russian, and 38-40 directly from Starline. I just went to their website and was stunned to see they are currently out of 45 Colt brass. First time I have ever seen that. That goes to show what panic buying of firearms leads to. First the guns are in short supply, then the ammo, and then when newbies can't find ammo they panic buy the components for reloading.

This too shall pass.

No idea why you don't want to shoot lead bullets, that's all I shoot. All the ammo I shoot in my leverguns is loaded with Black Powder and soft lead bullets.

I load 45 Colt regularly for my revolvers but mostly with Black Powder too.

When I was loading Smokeless, my standard 45 Colt load was 7.5 grains of Unique under a 250 grain lead, hard cast, round nosed flat point bullet. That should work fine for a rifle chambered for 45 Colt too. You will want to be using a bullet with a flat nose, like a round nosed flat point or a truncated cone bullet in any rifle with a tubular magazine. Avoid bullets with sharp points.
 
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I have found Federal 45 Colt ammo at Bass Pro several times since the panic started.

Federal also sells directly to customers when they have ammo available. I was actually going to buy the same 45 Colt from their website when I found it at my local Bass Pro
 
And a 38-40 antique Winchester Model 1873 that left the factory in 1887. Notice the round barrel.

I love 38-40 and would like a '73 in it to match my new service colt. Id rather it than a 45C or especially a 357/38

The round 24"(?) barrel with crescent butt plate is a nice one! My 32-20 has a 30" octagon with full length magazine and crescent butt plate; also a special order.
 
........... with covid19 and the ammo shortage I have only been able to obtain lead .45 Colt.

I can only find jacketed. With a tubular action, the bullets must be flat point? The reloading data for the powders I plan to use aren't very comprehensive for bullet types, but do specify the Hornady hollow point. That would surely avoid igniting any cartridge in the magazine due to recoil.

So, it's either Titegroup or 231 with the Hornady hollow points.
 
I’ve used nothing but CB action loads and it has proven to be quite versatile.

Impressive photos and I'm definitely envious. "CB action" loads are generally loaded down, correct?

Based upon my internet research, I've learned that with the 1873, higher pressures are preferable (to lower pressures) because at higher pressures the bullet case expands in the chamber and creates a seal that forces the gas and unburnt powder (soot) out the muzzle. But with lower pressure cartridges, gas and debris (soot) flow back into the action, gumming up the works.

In this thread:
https://www.thehighroad.org/index.p... Colt is 14,000 PSI,with a toggle-link action

...the late RCModel said, "SAAMI spec for 45 Colt is 14,000 PSI. That is the only pressure suitable for use in any rifle with a toggle-link action."

I'm thinking that I can use any load up to 14,000 PSI in the 1873? If so (and because of limited bullet and powder choices in the current market), I'm looking at using Win 231 and Hornady JHP XTP 200 grain bullets.

231 is 7.8 grains, 956 fps, 11000 CUP. Max is 8.7, 1048 fps, 14000 CUP.

Maybe start with 8.0 grains 231 with the Hornady JHP.
 
No idea why you don't want to shoot lead bullets, that's all I shoot. All the ammo I shoot in my leverguns is loaded with Black Powder and soft lead bullets.

Availability. My suppliers (at this time) have zero lead bullets. Also, there is not much industry standard in hardness and I invariably get leading.

Plus, with modern powders and jacketed/plated bullets, cleaning is easier.
 
Howdy

A few things.

It is not recoil that can set off rounds in a tubular magazine. The effects of the magazine follower slamming the column of cartridges back every time the carrier strips a round out of the magazine are much more violent than what cartridges see under recoil. Every time the lever is worked, and a round is fed out of the magazine onto the carrier, the magazine spring slams the entire column of bullets back pretty roughly. With a full load in the magazine, the spring is more highly compressed than with less rounds in the magazine, so those first few rounds the magazine spring is slamming them back pretty violently. Much more jostling than the rounds see with recoil. That is why you always want to use bullets with a 'flat point' in a lever gun with a tubular magazine.

All of these cartridges have Round Nosed, Flat Point bullets. Or Flat Point, Round Nose if you prefer. Left to right they are 45 Colt, 45 Schofield, 44-40, 44 Russian, 38-40, and 45-70. These are my Black Powder loads and they all have some sort of flat point on them. I shoot these 44-40 and 38-40 rounds in my lever guns all the time. I do not own a lever gun chambered for 45 Colt, if I did, that 45 Colt round would be perfect.

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If you don't have a loading manual that specifies different bullet weights and shapes, you need to get one. All the powder manufacturers put out excellent reloading manuals. I'm talking about an actual book, not something you find on line, and not the freebies the powder companies give away. If you are going to be loading for your new rifle, you should have at least one manual that specifies many different bullets shapes and weights and the appropriate powder charges for each bullet. Off the top of my head, the books by Lee, Hornady, Speer, and Lyman are excellent. Do yourself a favor and buy one, it is well worth it.


Based upon my internet research, I've learned that with the 1873, higher pressures are preferable (to lower pressures) because at higher pressures the bullet case expands in the chamber and creates a seal that forces the gas and unburnt powder (soot) out the muzzle. But with lower pressure cartridges, gas and debris (soot) flow back into the action, gumming up the works.

OK, here's the deal with that. What you are talking about is Blow By. If the case does not expand fully before the bullet leaves the chamber, some of the expanding gasses will blow past the rear of the case and blow into the action. I have been shooting lever guns for a long, long time. A little bit of powder residue in the action is not going to 'gum up' the action. You would have to shoot a whole lot, I mean hundreds and hundreds of rounds, before enough fouling accumulated in the action to seriously impact how well the rifle functions. In Cowboy Action, we have guys who are always on a quest for the 'cleanest burning' powder, so their guns will not bind up and fail to function properly. We are not talking about fussy semi-autos here. I'm here to tell you that a little bit of fouling will not bind up a lever gun. Besides, the '73 is the easiest to clean of all the lever guns. One screw and the side plates come off, revealing the entire guts of the mechanism. Super easy to clean. Much easier than for instance a Model 1892, which is a pain in the butt to disassemble.

Here is a photo of my Uberti 44-40 1873 with one side plate removed, showing the internal mechanism. Super easy to remove the plates and clean the entire thing out from the inside.

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Here is the inside of my 38-40 original Winchester Model 1873.

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As the bullet leaves the case, if enough pressure has not built up to seal the case in the chamber you can get Blow by. This is particularly true of 45 Colt, because the brass is relatively thick. The brass at the case mouth of 45 Colt usually runs around .012 thick. 44-40 and 38-40, on the other hand only run around .007 thick at the case mouth. Yes, I have measured them many times. So the same amount of pressure that will seal the relatively thin case mouth of 44-40 or 38-40 may not work to seal the thicker bass at the case mouth of 45 Colt. That is why 44-40 is the darling of us Black Powder cartridge shooters. The case seals the chamber so well at the relatively low pressure generated by Black Powder that all the fouling goes down the bore, none of it leaks into the action.

I strongly disagree that you should be shooting maximum loads through a Model 1873. Very strongly. All you need to do is shoot mid level loads. The load I mentioned earlier, 7.5 grains of Unique under a 250 grain lead, hard cast, round nosed flat point bullet will work just fine in a 45 Colt lever gun. This is no powder puff load, it is a bit under maximum, but it should work just fine.

Also, use a heavy bullet. A 250 grain, or 255 grain bullet will delay exiting from the case ever so slightly longer than a 200 grain or less bullet. So pressure will build up a little bit more before the bullet leaves the case. Of course, use the appropriate data for the bullet weight you have selected. Do not use 200 grain data with 250 grain bullets.

Yes, ammunition sold as 'Cowboy' loads are generally loaded down a bit, but really not all that much. The guys in the winner's circle in CAS are loading their ammo so a 45 Colt recoils about like a light 38 Special. Commercial 'Cowboy' ammo is not loaded that light. There is no industry standard for 'Cowboy' ammunition, it is what ever each manufacturer chooses. I have not bought any 45 Colt in many years, I have been loading all mine myself for many years. I did win a box of 45 Colt 'Cowboy' ammo in a raffle a few years ago. Nothing to write home about, they certainly were not what we refer to as 'mouse farts'. Recoil was mild, but respectable.

Anyway, if you can find some 45 Colt 'Cowboy' ammo, that would be fine in your '73.

Plus, with modern powders and jacketed/plated bullets, cleaning is easier.

You Smokeless guys kill me. A little bit of soot or lead in the barrel and you think cleaning is difficult.

Be sure to buy a loading manual.
 
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Still waiting on Sunny Slopes to post that picture...

SS... you buy that .45 Colt rifle?
 
I want to add a reproduction "1873" Winchester to my modest collection of lever action rifles. Winchester, not Uberti, etc.

I want color case hardened and an octagonal barrel and my market is Gunbroker offerings.

IMO, Uberti makes a better Winchester than Winchester ever did, and I would take a Uberti over a new Winchester branded Miroku every day and twice on Sunday. Their 1886 sporting is one of the nicest production lever guns you can buy.
 
IMO, Uberti makes a better Winchester than Winchester ever did, and I would take a Uberti over a new Winchester branded Miroku every day and twice on Sunday. Their 1886 sporting is one of the nicest production lever guns you can buy.

I have both Uberti and Miroku repros. While I can certainly understand opinions on both sides of the question, I must say the matter is nowhere near as clear-cut as you state.
I have a Uberti 1873 short rifle, and a Miroku made Winchester 1873 long rifle (barrel is 26"). Both have color case hardened receivers. IMHO, the Miroku is much nicer, it's richer and more colorful. The Uberti is more..... "blotchy" and not as colorful. It isn't bad but it's just not as nice as the Miroku. It's one thing about Uberti; their color case hardening is just not quite as good as others'. Even Pietta often has much nicer color case hardening G on many of their revolvers. Now Uberti is better now than, say, 25 years ago .... but still not as nice as some of their competitors' work.
Mechanically, I will give a tiny edge to Miroku, but Uberti is still top notch.
I like the wood on Miroku better. This is personal preference and YMMV because your tastes may be different, as well as others'. Uberti wood is shinier and often reddish. Miroku seems tamer, not as polyurethane-like and more authentic. Miroku has very nice wood, and Uberti can have very nice wood, but how they treat it and finish it is .....uh, well, let's say a tiny step lower.

Miroku has altered the ignition system on the rifles. They use an "inertial ignition system," which involves apparently a spring loaded firing pin and a safety device of some type. This is most obvious on their 1866 and 1873 toggle link rifles, not so obvious on the repros of the Browning-designed rifles, due to how the bolts are designed. Here, yes, Uberti is certainly more historically accurate to the original 19th century versions than the Miroku ones. But ....otoh, Miroku is making WINCHESTER rifles. They're "real." Continuations rather than repros.

But one can certainly be proud of owning either Uberti or Miroku rifles. They both are excellent versions of classic historic weapons.
 
I have to agree. The colors on the frame of my Uberti 1873 are pretty 'blotchy'.

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As are the colors on my 'iron frame' Uberti 1860 Henry.

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Of course Uberti does not do real bone Case Hardening, so the colors are not as brilliant as that process produces. They do some sort of chemical bath that simulates the colors of real Case Hardening, but they are not as beautiful as the colors produced by real Case Hardening. And yes, Uberti uses a bit of reddish stain on their wood.

I do not own one of the Miroku made Winchesters, which most certainly are real Winchester, they are made under license from the company that owns Winchester today. Everything I have read about them is they are very well made firearms.

Regarding which is more authentic, for many years Uberti modified the way the bolt is attached to the bolt extension from the original design. The bolt extension was held to the bolt by a small pin only about 1/16" in diameter. More recently I have read that Uberti has gone back to the original way the bolt extension was attached to the bolt, with a finger. I will have to look up some photos to show the differences.
 
Both have color case hardened receivers. IMHO, the Miroku is much nicer, it's richer and more colorful. The Uberti is more..... "blotchy" and not as colorful. It isn't bad but it's just not as nice as the Miroku. It's one thing about Uberti; their color case hardening is just not quite as good as others'.

I actually prefer the more subdued colors. Turnbull stuff is different, but generally the brighter colors are a little much for me.

I was speaking more mechanical smoothness, though. I'm not a gun writer, but have handled numerous examples of each, and the Ubertis felt more like Marlins; tight, but very smooth. The Mirokus were tighter than originals, but not as silky as Ubertis, and actual Winchesters have always felt sloppy to me, and often gritty with the newer 94s.

Having said all that, I really am and always will be a Marlin guy.
 
I have an 1890's Winchester 1873 in 32-20 and a recent production Miroku Winchester 1873 in 357 Magnum. I'm pleased with both.

If you want a 45 Colt, it is a good cartridge so go for it. Buy a 100 or so rounds/cases to shoot and reload then buy serious quantities when prices return to normal.

To file in your memory, when times are good and I get a new gun with a new-to-me cartridge, I buy 500-1000 new cases for the gun. At least I have case when the next panic hits. Primer/powder/bullets have different inventory needs based on what can be shared for different guns.

P.S. A 45 Colt lever action is on my list.I just have not decided which model to get.
 
The gun was supposed to arrive at my dealer today. He said allow 72 hours since they're pretty swamped right now.

But the FFL at the point of origin messed up and sent it to an entirely different state. I checked tracking today and USPS tried to deliver it to Akron, Ohio, instead of Tulsa, OK. The seller apologized profusely and the FFL accepted responsibility. It's now got to be mailed back to the original FFL who will put the correct address on it.

I'm sharing this info because I don't have it yet which is why I have not taken Frulk up on his generous offer.
 
A couple things: A very generous offer from Frulk. You don't see things like that every day.
Second, I have a .45 Colt lever, a Henry with 20" barrel[round]. It is simply my favorite rifle to load/shoot. 8.0gr Unique/250gr lead or coated rnfp from Missouri.
Also, I'd like to thank Driftwood Johnson for post #34. Excellent read. This has been a great thread.
 
I've got a Taylor 1873 Winchester copy and the color case hardening is superb, however, I used it for CAS (Frontier) using BP and cleaned it thoroughly after each shoot, removing the side plates, but still had the toggle switches bend twice on me and need replacing. That by the way is my only complaint on the rifle it is very accurate. BTW I ordered them both times from Taylor. Not sure if they are in business anymore.
 
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