A semi-auto CO2 pistol for training

[Dunross]

I was in an LGS the other day where they had a selection of Gamo CO2 pistols. The PT-85 looked superficially enough like my Beretta pistols that I thought they might be useful for training. Sixteen round mags, fast repeat shots, a claimed 450fps pellet velocity, can be used where/when real firearms cannot. Went home to do some research and the reviews were disappointingly mixed.

So, here I am to ask if there are other better quality CO2 pistols on the market that would serve the training purpose? Preferably something full-sized or close to it, able to make fast follow-up shots, rifled barrel for use with lead pellets, and a decent pellet velocity.

I really want to get more practice in than what the current primer & powder availability will allow.

Any suggestions?

 

[DukeConnor]

Ever think about airsoft ? I have a M&P airsoft gun. Very close imitation, fits my holsters and the slide cycles.

You can also use it without bb's to practice drawing and the slide cycles.

 

[1942bull]

My non-expert opinion is that absent the weight and trigger pull of a firearm training with a air gun replica is not going to make you more proficient. Trigger pull and grip,are affected by gun weight and size. The replicas do not have the weight. If I felt I needed that kind of practice, I would rather buy a laser targeting dry fire system. With one you are training with the gun you actually might have to use. The slide function of an air gun is not going to duplicate the energy of an equivalent firearm. Train with what you will need to use. Imagine a football team training with Nerf footballs. It would be useless.

 

[.38 Special]

I think pellet guns - at least those with reasonable accuracy, decent sights, and good triggers - are very good for improving accuracy. I haven't really tried them for "practical" training, so can't offer much information there.

 

[Dunross]

So, what particular models do you like for improving accuracy?

 

[SwampWolf]

Trigger pull and grip,are affected by gun weight and size. The replicas do not have the weight.

Some SIG lookalikes come very close to replicating their centerfire counterparts in terms of grip, weight, size and other relevant features. Even the trigger pulls mimic the real thing insofar as being possible. There are likely other makes and types that do the same.

 

[CoalCrackerAl]

I have a Gammo P 430. It's nice for semi-auto practice. I shoot pellets in it. If you want a more accurate pellet pistol the Beeman Model 2004. Is very accurate. It has a rifled barrel. It is single shot though.

 

[MedWheeler]

I actually like my PT-85, and my PT-80 (similar gun, but without the reciprocating slide.)

The slide slamming to the rear on the 85 kind of knocks the gun off-target, requiring re-acquisition, similarly to a "real" gun's muzzle flip.

It's not made to actually replicate any existing firearm, but I likened it to something like a Ruger P-85. The trigger is kind of squishy, though, compared to that of any powder-burner I've messed with (except maybe my old Jennings J22.)

 

[Dunross]

Some SIG lookalikes come very close to replicating their centerfire counterparts in terms of grip, weight, size and other relevant features. Even the trigger pulls mimic the real thing insofar as being possible. There are likely other makes and types that do the same.

Yes, I have really gone down the rabbit hole these last couple of days researching this. I'm seriously looking at an Umarex Beretta 92FS. Might even go for a Gletcher BRT84 though that one only shoots BBs, but seeing as how I bought the wife a Beretta Mod 81 it would be cheap practice for her.

I had no idea of the variety of CO2 and spring-air pistols to be found. Been a real voyage of discovery.

 

[bannockburn]

Dunross

I have two CO2 powered pistols: a Remington 1911RAC and a SIG M17. Both are full size and close in weight to the real thing. Slides work just as the real guns do and while obviously the recoil isn't the same, the overall effect and subsequent value as a training application is worth it to me.

 

[chicharrones]

I have run through a few CO2 BB or pellet pistols that replicate firearms. While not very accurate, the non-blowback double action variety are pretty good trainers for close range double action shooting.

 

[starling]

Almost any of them will improve your ability. Trigger control alone gets better as most airguns have such horrible triggers (you get used to them) that even a crappy striker fired trigger feels like a 1911. I would advise against the blowbacks as they eat up CO2. Some of them are good for teaching kids about slide function and grip placement. I use to start kids on those umarex PPK/s pistols before moving them to 22s. Teaches them not to put their thumbs behind the slides.

 

[Septicdeath]

P17 only a single shot but a great and accurate training gun. No co2 to mess with 420fps for $50 the best buy in air pistols.

 

[Dunross]

My Beretta 92FS is supposed to arrive today if Amazon doesn't look that portion of my order like it did the first. I went with the non-blowback type for the same reason. Wastes too much gas. Really look forward to using it!

I could reload for my real Beretta, but with powder and primers continuing to be problematical I can't bring myself to use them for every day practice.

 

[jmorris]

A long time ago, when my BIL was not old enough to purchase a firearm and lived in my MIL’s house, I let him use an air soft version of the pistol he shot when I could take him with me to matches. I think it was better than nothing for practicing mechanics. It allowed for draws, slide cycled, last shot hold open, mag changes the same. However, these days I would let him have the pistol he used in competition and let him dry fire it, I think that’s more useful.

 

[jmorris]

Many years ago Crossman sold a CO2 .177 caliber top end for 1911’s you put on your frame.



Never really took off but I bet there is a market for stuff like that right now.

 

[starling]

Wow... never seen that one and I am pretty well schooled on Crosman pistols up to the early 2000s.

 

[jmorris]

Yeah, they were before that. 1987 https://support.crosman.com/hc/en-us/articles/203544080-455-Owner-s-Manual-EVP-1987-

I am pretty sure I have a magazine on 1911 conversions from 1986 that has it in it though. Always wanted one of the Pachmayr conversions too.

 

[Buzznrose]

My Glock 19 CO2 gun fits all my Glock 19 holsters and works great for training.

 

[Viper1357]

That's a difficult question to answer as nowadays manufacturers have really honed in on the replica airgun market (aka replica handgun models) for both collectors and shooters to yeah, replicate realistic (as much as reasonably possible) modern and historical firearm handguns in Co2 bb and pellet varieties. So my honest advice is to do a good amount of web research on just that and read reviews and watch videos on dozens on different models to see what might work for you. Everyone here has listed some very good options, and there are so many more it can be difficult to choose. Also check out places like Pyramyd Air, Airgun Depot (yeah related I know) and other major online retailers for a great selection and they also have blogs, and other write ups and vids on a lot of their selections.

I have a great many air pistols that have helped me with keeping up my shooting skills during the ammo drought, lack of shooting range availability, and just having good fun being more relaxed while shooting, and oh yeah lots of rounds for minimal cost... That is until you get the sickness and buy too many replicas, etc...

Here's a vid I made sometime back on the Sig P365 micro Co2 air pistol that has helped me with keeping my skills up, and the trigger is a bit heavy so when I shoot the real deal it feels like a target gun..lol


- Lastly off topic for the negative thoughts/beliefs on the subject. It's easy to think (albeit a bit short sighted) that unless you have a perfect scenario with perfectly exact props, environment, etc. you can get no benefit from other forms of training. This is simply not correct. For example, something as simple as body conditioning, strength and cardio training, and more specifically hand strength training 'will have a positive impact' on shooting proficiency especially if you have good typical shooting skills to begin with. Grip strength and good hand/finger coordination are paramount for improving hand gun grip, trigger control, and handgun control under firing. I submit that even exercising with simple tools like in my picture below will improve handgun shooting proficiency given a person has the basics down already. If you don't believe me try shaking hands with Jerry Miculek or Rob Leatham of course among other greats, and they'll show you just how much something as simple good grip strength improves shooting abilities.



So given that, something like airgun training will also improve and maintain ones shooting skills or proficiency. Oddly enough, taking up knife and tomahawk throwing back in 2013 really helped my hand and eye coordination which yep, helped my precision shooting a bit. It's probably a lot with the thinking/mindset, but just saying I became a better shooter because of it.
So, I didn't even want to list all the benefits of airgun training that many military and swat, other leo organizations use to improve and maintain their skill sets so I found a nice online review of training with airguns:
https://www.gunsamerica.com/digest/...e-with-high-quality-repetitions-and-low-cost/

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