A sensible answer to the "SHTF rifle" question?

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Marko Kloos

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Maybe I am just getting old and cranky, but I am really starting to like the idea of a nice smallbore & shotgun over-and-under. I am particularly enamored with the little Savage O/U in .22LR over 20ga.

Such a rifle would be a very versatile tool for many situations, up to and including the dreaded SHTF scenario. It's a low-cost platform, ammo is lightweight and cheap, and payload selection in .22 and 20ga is virtually limitless.

Anyone have one of those critters? What are your thoughts on usefulness?
 
I've got one, but it's 30-30 over 20 gauge. The only drawback is multiple threats with a slow reload in a SHTF senario.

It does make a good varmit gun though.
 
I think you are right for survival (eatin' and such). Relatively light, one tool, two cartridges, 10s of uses with different loads.


I would want a little more boom, as in repeat booms, if I was fighting my way out of town.
 
My uncle had one of these, many years ago, in .22 LR and .410. It was a great little game getter to carry around in the woods or fields, and took a lot of squirrels, rabbits and quail.

But to ask a small game weapon to do duty as a defensive weapon is a bit much.

Consider what your SHTF scenario is -- are you simply out in the wilderness, and need to kill game, or are you facing a gang of bandits?

Select your weapons accordingly.

For a really versatile weapon, consider an M1911 with a .22 conversion kit. Add shot rounds and flares, and you can do about anything with it -- but even then, it's not the weapon you'd choose for a firefight.
 
I have a 24V that I traded a motorcycle for (DON'T ASK) and installed a receiver sight. The .22LR is very accurate, and 20g slugs (old style, not sabotted or anything) shoot fine, even tho' it's a full choke. I keep it broken down in an old M60 barrel bag w/ some ammo and stuff. Fine game-getter.
 
I have a model 24S............22 over .410

When I was a kid it took a mighty big pile of rabbits and squirrels. My kids used it a lot as well. It makes a very fine survival weapon for small game hunting, but I'd be reaching for something else for serious social work.
 
I have .22 over .410. It was made in the 1940's and has a cheesy plastic stock. It was the rifle I learned to shoot on. I remember thinking it was huge, and that the .410 kicked really hard ( I think I was 7 or 8 at that time). I still have this gun. :)
 
Like anything else, one gun can't do anything.
If a combo gun is what does the best for you, go for it.:)
Personally, if I need to feed myself I would choose a scoped .22LR rifle. In my case it is a CZ-452.
I just think that shotguns are not the ideal choice for a long term SHTF.
Ammo for them is heavy, bulky, and expensive compared to the .22LR eventhough one round of .22LR will do the same thing as one round of 12GA.
 
Personally, if it's preparation for a SHTF scenario that you're interested in, I'd look to the past for advice. In the Old West men had both their rifles and pistols chambered for the same cartridge, thus they had to haul only one type of ammo and could interchange easily. Bear in mind these were men who spent months out on the trail far from civilization and under constant threat of attack from any number of dangers, so they knew what they were doing. There's no concern over matching calibers or worries about reaching for a few rounds in the middle of a gunfight only to discover that you'd grabbed the wrong cartridge. Also, should your rifle break or become lost you can use the same ammunition in your pistols, and vice-versa. Lever guns are quick to reload in a hurry and require no detachable magazines. Today's manufacturing methods make them even better than they were a hundred years ago, and they're offered in many popular calibers including the .357 Magnum/.38 Special, which means that if you had to scrounge for ammo you'd be likely to find it. Given the fact that the .357 lever gun lets you shoot .38's also, you'd have another distinct advantage in that you could load and fire two types of ammunition instead of one. I figure if things ever really get that bad, you couldn't do worse than have a good lever-action .357 and matching DA revolver.

Just my two cents worth.
 
I have one and only shot it a few times. It's a wonderful gun for the woods (22 for small game and a 20 ga slug for larger). I'm going to have to drill out the stock so it can store ammo.
 
My father has 3 (or 4, can't remember) and he's had them for as long as I remember. He loves them to hunt with, but let me give you an example why they are not a "SHTF" scenario... in a defensive role anyway.

Dad and a fellow fireman buddy were out hunting. Dad had his Savage 24V (wood stock) in 30-30 over 12 gauge. Dad parted ways with his buddy to head for their stands. On the way to Dad's stand, he came across a pack of wild dogs (6 or so) that were eating on a small deer carcass. He said they looked up and growled, defending their kill, and the first thing that went through his mind was "well, two of you will go down... but do I use the shotgun as a club for the rest of you, or do I let you chew on me while I reload?"

He just walked wide around, and the dogs continued to growl but didn't bother him since he didn't bother them. Of course they'd probably all have run at the sound of the first shot, but it changed Dad's hunting methods from then on. If he takes one of his Savage 24V's, he also carries a .357 Magnum revolver.

But they're excellent rifles, and dear ole' Dad wouldn't trade them for anything.
 
Marko, in just what fantasy SHTF scenario do you preceive yourself only needing a gun that holds two shots as in your O/U configuration??? Most SHTF scenarios have folks moving to higher capactity, not lower, as a means to better defend themselves.
 
DNS, he's not talking only about SHTF, but all around, general purpose, up to and including that.

FWIW: I put some serious thought into this last night. Who here has the guts to go up against a man armed with a shotgun and a rifle with thier pistol? No thanks, folks.

In a SHTF situation looters, bandits etc., even if they're in gangs most likely won't screw with someone with a long arm because they're out ranged and out powered, and if they know that person will not hesitate to shoot. Yes, hi-cap would be better, but long arm period ain't bad.

TEOTWAWKI is a whole different matter however.
 
I have 20 gage magnum w/22lr Savage combo. Was my only gun for about 4 yrs when first married. Shot crows, snakes, cats, and dogs with it (we were raising chickens and goats at the time). I look upon it as a good starter gun, but that's it. When anything gets serious, I want nothing less than 12 gage, pump or auto, altho double barrell might do.

While I've shot lots of varmits with 22lr, I've switched to 22 mag for same function today. Its still a lightweight bullet, but can make shots out to 100 yds + with it.

Not an expert with 20 gage, but never saw dependable patterns past about 40 yds. with it. The 12 gage easily reaches to about 60 yds. and is more reliable in bringing down game out to that distance. In addition the 12 gage is a more universal cartridge.

To each his own, but I would move up to 12 gage and a more powerful rifle caliber if chosing this combo gun as SHTF weapon.
 
Marko Kloos, a suggestion: A local shop has one of these in 223/12gauge. That might satisfy your light recoil, cheap ammo requirements better. And it is even more versitile than the combo you're thinking on.
 
I'm all for that combo. Makes a neat survival tool. I have a 308x308 O/U Baikal and I believe they can be had in SG/Rahfle configuration, also. Accurate, and hell for stout! :cool:
 
If you want it, get it.

It's sort of strange to me that our American Combo gun (Savage) is the answer to a probem Europeans have known for years..

They call it a "Drilling" right?

A plastic stocked stainless combo 22/20 ga. would be a good "survival" gun on rafting trip. No need for 24lpi hand checkering when you might end up using it as a paddle.
 
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Marko,

Years ago, when I was 23, I put one on layaway. The owner of the store let me use the downpayment toward an SKS, the next time I was in the store.

10 vs. 2. Hm.

Really a better knockaround hunting or truck gun than dedicated piece. Even a 12 Gauge repeater and a .22 pistol would (I feel) be a better long-term survival combo.

John
 
Having missed California falling into the sea in 1968-69, the economic collapse of the US following the election of Carter in 1976, the Rapture in 1981 (you should have seen the full-page, tiny print ads in the Orlando whatever paper!), the Coming Crash of '85 (or whatever year that book said), seeing no disasters when all planets beyond earth were in "conjuction" (only 15 or 17 degrees off of a truly straigh line) in 199whatever, the Alien rescue ship behind comet whatever in 1996 or so, the Second Coming in 1997, the disasters and riots of Y2K, and the chemical attacks from having the ballz to attack al Queda...

I now sincerely believe

that the most sensible approach to SHTF/TEOTWAWKI is:

Have at least a month's supply of food and water in the house;
stay out of debt;
have a pick and shovel(s) to bury the dead;
have a basement or a ground-floor safe room that's a [edit typo] bit bullet-resistant;
keep any centerfire gun and 500 rounds of ammo; and

and

stay inside and wait for the nonsense to subside. Few true threats have an attention span longer than 4-5 days.
 
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