A shooting spree in the UK,that happend today.

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sterling180

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Hello there THR members&I bring to you a sad day,in our country,as a lunatic taxi-driver,went postal and shot dead& several people.The amount of casulties is unclear,as the cops have sealed off the town in Cumbria.Just like Micheal 'Rambo' Ryan,back in 1987,this guy has caused a gun massacre.It happend at 10.30 AM GMT.

I'll kep you all informed,as more information is available to me.The last time I was worried about our gun freedoms,was back in '96,after the Dunblane massacre,with handguns.So lets wait and see the fallout that the antis will bask in.:cuss:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/10215998.stm
 
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Banning of firearms doesn't prevent this sort of thing although Banners will say that such bans reduce them to the rare and extraordinary event.

It will be interesting to see if the police can determine where the gunman, Derrick Bird, got his weapon in a country where total government control of firearms ownership is touted. It will also be interesting to see if there's any backlash against the government for lying to the subjects of the UK that shootings and mass shootings can be prevented by total government control of firearms ownership.
 
Banning of firearms doesn't prevent this sort of thing although Banners will say that such bans reduce them to the rare and extraordinary event.
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Oh,I agree&its totally spot on my friend,but Im very concerned after the number of fatalities&the nature of the crime,that we will have tighter restrictons or worse still,bans.They justify another ban,possibly like how they did,back in '88,with the Hungerford killer,in saying that he:had no criminal record&never came to police attention.

By the way,this incident has saddend me alot&made my day,very miserable.A female colleage of mine,whom I rung up just now,has now gone totally anti-gun,saying that 'no one should own a gun'.This friend of mine,is called Gemma,&she was a friend,whom I tried to get to come clay-shooting,with me.
 
First n' foremost no one should gloat over this tragedy but yes this is kind of thing will happen. No matter how much restrictions, control, licenses, or permits a government has these nuts will always get through and no one is the wiser until it is too late.
 
It's reported the weapon used in the shootings is a shotgun and that the murderer was a well liked and well known member of his community. There's nothing indicating any criminal history or association or gang links.

THR doesn't present "crime stories". We instead need to focus on the RKBA aspects and impact of this incident.
 
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It will be interesting to see if the police can determine where the gunman, Derrick Bird, got his weapon in a country where total government control of firearms ownership is touted.
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That's the catch: up until now, there wasn't total government control in the UK - it was still possible and relatively easy to own bolt action rifles and shotguns. It is very likely that the shooter was a legal gun owner. As a freedom- and gun-loving European, I am afraid that this might become the perfect excuse for a total ban - "See ? We need to ban them all !"
 
I wonder how the new coalition government will view this incident. Any Brits care to share how the different parties view gun control? My suspicion is that all of them are for it.
 
UK members--what are the chances for a shotgun ban after this? What are the new government's views on such matters? Are they better or worse than Labour?
 
Sad

I hate to see people killed by a nutcase like this. I wonder if the guy legally possessed these firearms...but he obviously illegally carried them in public and illegally murdered people. At least he saved the public the trouble of trying him in court.
 
Let obviously won't get as much attention as what's been going on in China recently. They have a terrible gun ban, but the psycho's still manage to waste people with blades.
 
It's been confirmed that 12 people died. It would appear he used a rifle and possibly a shotgun as well. I'm afraid this will have far reaching consequences for shooting over here. I think after this all we'll be left with is muzzle loaders and possibly .22's. I hope I'm wrong.
Needless to say, condolences to everyone involved.
Fred.
 
Well here is a link to the BBC timeline on the incident.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/10216179.stm

As to the RKBA issue, well, I was at my clay club when this hit the radio, our instant reaction was, must be time for another ban!
Hungerford - bye bye semi-auto full bores
dunblane- bye bye pistols
now cumbria- what next?

At the moment almost anyone with a good reason (sporting or hunting use) can get a shotgun cert and own shotguns (up to 3 shot cap)
a section 1 firearms cert is required for anything else.

I am in the process of applying for my SGC through my clay club, was going to apply for my FAC, might wait a bit, last time the legislation was pushed through at an amazing speed.

Unfortunately the govt will listen to the public, who are kept in a fearful state by the media, the fact that most firearms incidents are carried out with illegaly held weapons & replicas matter not one bit- 3 FAC holders have gone bonkers, 2 of them caused bans, watch out watch out!

On another downside, any hope i had of continuing to work in the firearms field when I leave the army has gone right out of the window if we have another ban. Another good reason to emigrate!
 
I also am sorry for the tragedy that has visited the UK.
I hope someone in the government will have enough sense to realize that bans do not stop crime. Incidents will happen-the availablility of arms is not the problem the problem is with people.
 
Did you know that he apaprently had another gun,a .22 rimfire rifle.Don't know whether or not it was a semi or a bolt,but Ive read a .22 rimfire rifle was used.Also I believe that the repeal for the N02 Act of the 1997 ban will wither and die on a vain too,I'm hoping that the shotgun used,isn't a pump-or a semi-auto,for obvious reasons.
UK members--what are the chances for a shotgun ban after this? What are the new government's views on such matters? Are they better or worse than Labour?
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Well,judjing by the amounbt of pro-gun Tory supporters who supported Cameron,there might not be a ban,but I recon that now the gun control network,will gain greater support.Also as for our relaxation of pistols,I doubt that it'll happen now.100% sure that this bloke was a Section1&2 license holder&that the guns were 100% his&not stolen.

If the Green Party got into power,under Caroline Lucas,than guess what,bye bye everything,minus single&double-barrelled game guns.Gone within a year,as these hippies would do it.
 
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For the UK members, what is required for you to have a shotgun or rifle?

Do you need to have prior approval before purchasing? Is it a license issued by the government? Can you walk into a shop, fill out a form and walk out with your shotgun without the government approving of you?
 
I have relatives in England, so I offer my condolences also. It is a pity to what the citizens of this once proud country have been reduced to, almost to the point of being serfs.
 
Semi-auto .22 rimfire rifles are allowed in the UK. Wanna bet those get banned?

On the other hand this might go the other way and people will realize that extreme gun bans do nothing.
 
Semi-auto .22 rimfire rifles are allowed in the UK. Wanna bet those get banned?

On the other hand this might go the other way and people will realize that extreme gun bans do nothing.
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I think that there will be a protest&petitions signed about anti-gun ownership,etc.At least we've got the Tories on board,instead of Labour,who is aligned with the Gun Control Network,who got us handguns banned.

.22LRs survived Hungerford&Dunblane gun purges,so they might survive now.Alot of folks use .22lrs anyway.Politics is too liberalised these days.Im pretty sure that in that comunity there were other gun owners too&in rural comunities,guns are a way of life.
 
hso,
here is a link to what is required in my county.
http://www.hampshire.police.uk/Internet/advice/firearmslicensing/

short answer though, shotgun cert, apply, with photos etc, secure storage etc, checks carried out (inc home visit) cert issued.
Firearms (section 1) as above but with references from 'pillars of the community' types
so no, I believe I can purchase an air rifle (under 12 ftlbs) ftf but my details will still be recorded.

Any good visa tips for the USA?
 
Do you need to have prior approval before purchasing? Is it a license issued by the government? Can you walk into a shop, fill out a form and walk out with your shotgun without the government approving of you?
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While in the USA myself, the most informative way it is put is thus:

The individual must prove that they have a need for most firearms for a permit, but for certain shotguns it was the reverse. The government must prove that the individual should not have a shotgun, otherwise it was approved.
Which resulted in shotguns being the firearms someone could acquire even in locales where you were dealing with restrictive police that do not like to issue permits.


As put on a wiki article http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun_politics_in_the_United_Kingdom :

Shotguns (Section 2 Firearms under the 1968 Act as amended) are defined in UK law as smoothbore firearms with barrels not shorter than 24" and a bore not larger than 2" in diameter, no revolving cylinder, and either no magazine or a non-detachable magazine that is not capable of holding more than two cartridges.[4] This effectively gives a maximum three round overall capacity, while shotguns with a capacity exceeding 2+1 rounds are subject to a firearm certificate. Shotguns thus defined are subject to a slightly less rigorous certification process.
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I would be interested in hearing if the killer used an above described shotgun as well.
24" barrels and 2-3 round capacity.
Or a gun that started out as such before being hacked down.
Or if it was one that required a firearm certificate, like your typical American pump shotgun.



I had heard some hopeful that since the new prime minister was a shooter himself there would be an easing of some laws.
Like perhaps .22 handguns being allowed again.
In such an anti-gun place this incident will likely keep that from happening.
Making the conservatives unlikely to reduce firearm restrictions, and the labor party eager to pass additional restrictions as soon as possible.
 
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